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Moon phases


asked for accounting and got back...

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asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:10 pm

Hi guys I have not used the letters here but I sent a letter asking them to validate the debt with g.a.a.p, i.f.r.s

They pretended not to understand and sent back a letter saying thank you for a request of copy for your file under the data protection act. They said they hold my name, address, dob under their file. They then said that if their is any other info I require I should send them £10 fee and write as much info to identify the information I require.

I never asked anything about data protection.

They didn't even sign the letter.

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Phillpots on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:23 pm

Why not ask, who is asking?

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:31 pm

@Phillpots wrote:Why not ask, who is asking?

I don't understand?

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Phillpots on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:34 pm

Stick with it you will going forward.

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:35 pm

@Phillpots wrote:Stick with it you will going forward.

so I should ask them again?

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Phillpots on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:47 pm

Why not just ask who is asking. You want the individual (asking) and nothing else. Who is that individual? The desk clerk? the telephonist? perhaps it might be the receptionist, lets just go up to the f**king t*t that owns the f**king business, corporation (call it what you like). You go for the one in charge period - boll*cks to rest. IMHO.


Last edited by assassin on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Language)

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Waffle on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:07 am

Hi Spike

Interesting ask.... I have briefly touched on GAAP and some of the DCA's such as Baker Tillies are just that accountants.

They will have to follow very stringent procedures in relation to accountancy I think your onto something by asking if they can validate the debt by GAAP or IFRS.

Here is a list of organisations.....

GAAP - General Accepted Accounting Principals
FRS - Financial Reporting Standards
IFRS - International Financial Reporting Standards
SSAP - Statements of Standard Accountancy Practice
ICAEW - Institute of Charted Accountants in England and Wales
ASB - Accountancy Standards Board
ASB, UTIF - Accounting Standards Board’s Urgent Issues Task Force

I have contacted a couple they were quite helpful and pointed me to the info I needed.

Have you looked at any of Professor Richard Werners work, accountancy is an area he can elaborate on pretty well....

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Waffle on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:11 am

If you really want some hardcore evidence you could always ask for a copy of the day sales books that contain your data, it will show you who the creditor is Very Happy

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:05 pm

@Waffle wrote:Hi Spike

Interesting ask.... I have briefly touched on GAAP and some of the DCA's such as Baker Tillies are just that accountants.

They will have to follow very stringent procedures in relation to accountancy I think your onto something by asking if they can validate the debt by GAAP or IFRS.

Here is a list of organisations.....

GAAP - General Accepted Accounting Principals
FRS - Financial Reporting Standards
IFRS - International Financial Reporting Standards
SSAP - Statements of Standard Accountancy Practice
ICAEW - Institute of Charted Accountants in England and Wales
ASB - Accountancy Standards Board
ASB, UTIF - Accounting Standards Board’s Urgent Issues Task Force

I have contacted a couple they were quite helpful and pointed me to the info I needed.

Have you looked at any of Professor Richard Werners work, accountancy is an area he can elaborate on pretty well....

this is good but how am I suppose to get remedy and discharge the dept if they completely ignored my request for them to validate it under gaap and ifrs!

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Candor on Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:44 pm

Hi Spike

The BANK refusing to disclose data or documents of a material nature pursuant an agreement, may actually help you depending on your situation; there are two scenario's I know of that lend a strong deck of cards, that is that you have expressed the relationship to be a trust relationship with segregated funds or you are still in a debtor/creditor relationship but you are not in default or arrears.

I am not going into the former scenario, but in the latter as long as you have clean hands, the bank will then have unclean hands if they refuse to disclose, discovery is a vital cog of equity, and equity is where you need to be to force disclosure, be it specific performance or equitable tracing.

Its not as simple as saying the bank did not lend me there own funds, we know that and the courts know that, the problem is if you are in a debtor/creditor situation you are seen to be acting as though you received a benefit and believed you had to pay back the funds didn't you (they send you statements to prove that, which become facts), unless you can establish you are only doing so under duress or undue influence, you can use non disclosure and refusal of discovery to rectify or rescind contracts also, but I wouldn't trust the courts myself, perhaps using non disclosure to prove you incurred a loss may be a better option.

The Bank records your Agreement form/Prom Note as an equitable asset in the daily journals, not sales day books, even though they effectively record the same thing assets, the matching principle means that every recorded asset/debit must have a balancing and corresponding liability/credit entry - that is the proof you funded the line of credit, only you did it with a general and unrestricted endorsement in the public.

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:08 am

Hi Spike

Although you didn't ask about data protection, what they are suggesting you do (re: £10 fee) is send them a Subject Access Request.

Why not take them up on their offer? A judiciously worded S.A.R. could help you out here if you ask the right questions eg has the debt been securitised/sold or was it subject to an insurance claim. If you word it right they are obliged to answer.

There is an excellent example of a SAR letter on this site, i think daveiron composed it - might be worth your while to check it out......

Cheers!

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:52 pm

iamani wrote:Hi Spike

Although you didn't ask about data protection, what they are suggesting you do (re: £10 fee) is send them a Subject Access Request.

Why not take them up on their offer? A judiciously worded S.A.R. could help you out here if you ask the right questions eg has the debt been securitised/sold or was it subject to an insurance claim. If you word it right they are obliged to answer.

There is an excellent example of a SAR letter on this site, i think daveiron composed it - might be worth your while to check it out......

Cheers!


Are you talking about this?

http://goodf.forumotion.com/t370-subject-acess-request?highlight=subject+access+request

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:21 pm

Hi Spike

Yes, that's the one (sorry Waffle!)


Steve Mccrae advocates the use of SARS, you might wish to check him out on YT if you haven't already.

Cheers!

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:51 pm

iamani wrote:Hi Spike

Yes, that's the one (sorry Waffle!)


Steve Mccrae advocates the use of SARS, you might wish to check him out on YT if you haven't already.

Cheers!

is this the Steve Mccrae vid you talking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w8XVaZIJYg

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:59 pm

Hi Spike

That's the guy, but honestly don't know which specific vids cover SARs. If i remember rightly he did a recent vid with SAR in the title. They are all worth watching though.

Cheers!

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Waffle on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:59 pm

Hi guys

No apology needed iamani.

Yes you can use a SAR and they are obliged to give you the information, but that dosnt mean they will. Most are having to get a court order for specific performance to compel a "creditor" to give you the info you are seeking.

What we are finding is by asking a debt purchaser or equitable agent to perform the SAR you are granting them the right to dip into your personal data, they will collect what they need to back up their case and give you the cr*p that dosnt help you. Although we sometimes recommend a SAR it's not always a good move.

Who are you dealing with spike in relation to your requests the original creditor, a debt purchaser or an equitable agent?

If you want to compel them to give you the info you seek you need to understand your relationship with the, is it a trust relationship, a debtor creditor relationship a bailment. You also need to know what info you are entitled to, how to mitigate those factors in your favour because you don't want to pay for a court order for specific performance only to be denied on the grounds it's not something your entitled to.

I'd recommend calling some of the agencies I've listed to find out what info your entitled to. If for example your a beneficiary you have a right to inspect the books, it's unlikely in a debtor creditor relationship your entitled to receive information about internal accountancy practices, but in court you can demand they bring the bankers books as evidence, not saying they will bring them, but that's your right to exercise...


Last edited by assassin on Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Language)

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Waffle on Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:40 pm

If you are confident with your knowledge you can go into the court room as the creditor, but you have to be competent with your understanding as to why you are the creditor. Id recommend studying Dr Richard Werners work, he explains exactly how your 'debt' is recorded in the accounts books and will develop you competency, once your are sure you are the creditor then its their claim that they are the creditor vs your claim that you are, they would have to bring the bankers books as evidence to prove who is and it would prove your the creditor. Ha, loads of goodies in here for you to go by Very Happy

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:07 pm

iamani wrote:Hi Spike

That's the guy, but honestly don't know which specific vids cover SARs. If i remember rightly he did a recent vid with SAR in the title. They are all worth watching though.

Cheers!

Strange, there is no SAR in any title!

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:13 pm

@Waffle wrote:Hi guys


Who are you dealing with spike in relation to your requests the original creditor, a debt purchaser or an equitable agent?



I'm dealing with the original creditor. I'm not in default or at risk of being taken to court at this time. I just wanted to start by asking the accounting but they ignored me.

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:28 pm

Hi Spike

Sorry for the wild goose chase fella, i watch so much YT i get mixed up sometimes.

i decided to re-watch the one you linked and he does mention SAR but in relation to council tax (and before default i think).

Waffle has posted some good advice, and he certainly knows more about it than i do. Candor too. i am unsure as to the limitations of a SAR, but i still think it'll be down to the wording of one's questions, and as Waffle says - who you send the SAR to (probably, imo, the OC).

If i think of anything else will post.

Good luck.

Cheers!

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Waffle on Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:23 pm

They will do everything they can to keep you in the dark about what they have done and are doing. Your absolutely entitled to know how they are processing your data. Because your dealing with the OC I'd recommend a SAR and the one we have as our standard, only because it is detailed and if they don't respond to any of the requests in the list they have to tell you why for each....

An example from when I have used it, they listed all the data I was entitled to that they didn't hold then they made a separate list of the data they held but wouldn't give that was the day sales sheets (original account entry) and the securitisation info. So from that I now know my loan has been securitised but they won't give me the info. Once you know this then you can go for a tracing order. If your not familiar with securitisation read into it!!

What type of debt is it secure or unsecured? because people have been getting up to 80% knocked off mortgages because they've been securitised.... but you have to go about it in the right way.

I certainly beleive your onto something by questioning if it's been accounted in accordance with GAAP and IFRS, if we dug a little deeper into the exact standards they are supposed to meet and what rights we have in relation to discovery and disclosure of that info, is bet most of them would be screwed 99% of them can't even provide documents of title let alone show the accounting has been recorded in accordance with standards.

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:17 pm

Hi Spike

As far as them ignoring your letter - did you send it via posh-post or recorded or normal delivery?

Did you address the 'man' or the 'office'?

These things can make all the difference as to how seriously T.H.E.Y. take you....

Cheers!

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:30 pm

@Waffle wrote:They will do everything they can to keep you in the dark about what they have done and are doing. Your absolutely entitled to know how they are processing your data. Because your dealing with the OC I'd recommend a SAR and the one we have as our standard, only because it is detailed and if they don't respond to any of the requests in the list they have to tell you why for each....

An example from when I have used it, they listed all the data I was entitled to that they didn't hold then they made a separate list of the data they held but wouldn't give that was the day sales sheets (original account entry) and the securitisation info. So from that I now know my loan has been securitised but they won't give me the info. Once you know this then you can go for a tracing order. If your not familiar with securitisation read into it!!

What type of debt is it secure or unsecured? because people have been getting up to 80% knocked off mortgages because they've been securitised.... but you have to go about it in the right way.

I certainly beleive your onto something by questioning if it's been accounted in accordance with GAAP and IFRS, if we dug a little deeper into the exact standards they are supposed to meet and what rights we have in relation to discovery and disclosure of that info, is bet most of them would be screwed 99% of them can't even provide documents of title let alone show the accounting has been recorded in accordance with standards.

The debt is with student loans so its secured on wages when you go above £21,000 income. Thats why I felt that I couldn't use the 3 letters as I have seen no proof of them working for the newer student loans.


Last edited by Spike on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Spike on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:33 pm

iamani wrote:Hi Spike

As far as them ignoring your letter - did you send it via posh-post or recorded or normal delivery?

Did you address the 'man' or the 'office'?

These things can make all the difference as to how seriously T.H.E.Y. take you....

Cheers!

I sent it to the Chief Financial Officer recorded delivery as the guy had a background as an accountant.

How do you address it to the man???

Do I write "to the man john doe" for example??

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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

Post by Waffle on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:47 pm

I would SAR the student loans company asking about the securitisation of your loan, you could use our SAR template or write your own, its up to you. The only futures contracts that cannot be securitised are social securities/benefits, its probably one of your best loop holes to work with. The student loans is an iffy one because its all linked to the DWP and HMRC they know what you earn and take it straight from your salary I am assuming the loan is being taken directly from your wages......

ALAB has posted some good info on securitisation with evidence of challenges being won in court.

The 3 letters do work, its individual circumstance that determine their effect, but for a student loan that is being paid they are probably not the best route. You need to build your own database of information and look for your strongest avenues to challenge it, if it has been securitised who is the legal owner of the assets? Because if the loans company don't have legal title to the debt and don't know who has then they cannot prove who has rights to the debt.


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Re: asked for accounting and got back...

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