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Court hearing

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Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:02 pm

Hi,

I am absolutely desperate for some help. I have been following the process for a court summons. I then realised the old site was no more. However, I applied for an unless order which was granted. Restons applied for relief on sanctions which is to be heard in court this week. They claim Cabot never received CPR 31.14 request. I sent it signed for so I have the proof that they signed for it. What should I do now?

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Tiggy on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:52 am

@Itzme75 wrote:Hi,

I am absolutely desperate for some help. I have been following the process for a court summons. I then realised the old site was no more. However, I applied for an unless order which was granted. Restons applied for relief on sanctions which is to be heard in court this week. They claim Cabot never received CPR 31.14 request. I sent it signed for so I have the proof that they signed for it. What should I do now?
Firstly, calm down, You have the evidence they've received the request (not your or the Court's problem if they failed to deal with it!).

Does the Court have copies of the proof you have, if not you must get it to the Court ASAP - copied to Restons of course.

You MUST attend the hearing or they'll find against you by default.

Just an afterthought, Presumably, the claim is over £10k?

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:02 am

I have sent the proof to the court and asked if I had to do anything further but I’ve had no response. So I didn’t send a copy to restons because I wasn’t sure but I will print and send today. Yes the claim is over £10,000. I’ve just received some documents from them today but the figures don’t add up.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Tiggy on Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:15 am

@Itzme75 wrote:I have sent the proof to the court and asked if I had to do anything further but I’ve had no response. So I didn’t send a copy to restons because I wasn’t sure but I will print and send today. Yes the claim is over £10,000. I’ve just received some documents from them today but the figures don’t add up.
What documents have they sent you?

You have to go to the hearing to argue your case, which is quite simple, you sent them a CPR 31.14 xx months ago, their incompetence with not dealing with the request within the time allowed is not your problem nor is it the Courts.  

They were served with a valid request under the Civil Procedure Rules (and you have the evidence of their receipt), they are supposedly a professional firm of Solicitors, who should know the rules better than anyone and should NOT receive relief from sanctions because of their own internal failure to deal with a properly served request.

The Civil Procedure Rules are there for everyone and everyone should abide by them ESPECIALLY a firm of Solicitors!!

Lay it on thick, don't get flustered, stay calm, you've a good argument here !!

Also, look up the CPR 31 so you're familiar with what they should have done !

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:10 am

Ok brilliant Thank you.

I think I just needed to hear that.

They have a witness statement, copy of a 2 page contract signed, screen shot to prove the default notice was sent ( there’s nothing relating it to me and the amount is not the same as they are claiming), a copy of a default notice they would send ( again not relating to me), a statement of payments (the amounts don’t correspond to the screenshot or the amount they’re claiming), letters they've sent to me, copy of notice of assignment and costs summary.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Tiggy on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:45 am

@Itzme75 wrote:Ok brilliant Thank you.

I think I just needed to hear that.

They have a witness statement, copy of a 2 page contract signed, screen shot to prove the default notice was sent ( there’s nothing relating it to me and the amount is not the same as they are claiming),  a copy of a default notice they would send ( again not relating to me), a statement of payments (the amounts don’t correspond to the screenshot or the amount they’re claiming), letters they've sent to me, copy of notice of assignment and costs summary.
So basically, more evidence of their incompetence, you need to quickly write your own witness statement taking apart there's and get it to the Court ASAP asking for it to be placed on the Court File as further evidence of why they shouldn't be granted Relief from Sanctions, point out everything they've done wrong, as well as giving proof of postage.

You must get it to the Court ASAP with a copy to Restons as your own witness statement should have been submitted 14 days before the hearing date.


Last edited by Tiggy on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:04 pm

Oh ok I didn’t realise that because the court didn’t ask for any of that when they gave me the court date. However I did submit a witness statement with the unless order. I will also do that. Thanks I feel much better

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Tiggy on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:21 pm

@Itzme75 wrote:Oh ok I didn’t realise that because the court didn’t ask for any of that when they gave me the court date. However I did submit a witness statement with the unless order. I will also do that. Thanks I feel much better

On the notification of the Court Hearing they should have said that both parties should submit witness statements by such and such a date, but never mind just do it ASAP.

When you go to the hearing, just be aware their solicitors may ask to speak to you and try and intimidate / persuade you into settling.

You absolutely, do not have to speak to them, if you do please remember they are not working in your best interests despite how much they may try to persuade you.

If you don't want to speak to them, when they ask to speak with you in private simply say 'no thank you, I think I'll let the Judge decide the merits of your application'.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by petesomething on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:24 pm

Hi ltzme75

What do you mean .has the default notice got the wrong
Information on it
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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:02 pm

Hi Petesomething,

It was just a template. No personal details on it.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:22 pm

Ok Thanks Tiggy,

I definitely don’t want to speak to them you can tell there a bunch of bullies by they letters.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:52 pm

I have another question. Does it matter if the APR is incorrect on the contract?

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Tiggy on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:44 pm

@Itzme75 wrote:I have another question. Does it matter if the APR is incorrect on the contract?
Very much so, as it renders what they've produced unenforceable. They have to provide what is known as a True Copy.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by petesomething on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:42 pm

Hi Itzme75

The APR must be correct. Also the default notice must be a true copy.

But it would be no good just going to court and saying the agreement is not a true copy, the default notice is not a true copy. You would need to explain why.

Warning: If you find the agreement and the default notice are not true copies and you inform the creditor/DCA, solicitor you may find they will reconstitute the documents again with the correct information and the court will allow this. They will say it was an administration error and has now been corrected.

I would just put in your witness statement

1: I did not receive a default notice under section 87(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

In court the solicitor will say you did and no doubt produce a default notice. This is where you can say if there is any information wrong.

For example: Your correct name, your correct address, the sum owing, account number, has it given you 14 days to remedy the situation, if not you must say in court.

2: The agreement, in your witness statement if it's the case just put I did not receive a true copy. This way you are not giving anything away. In court you have the opportunity to state why the APR is wrong, also can you read the agreement for example, but like I said you will have to state the reason it is not a true copy.

also like I said they will reconstitute the paperwork again if you tell them too much. And remedy the faults you outlined.

Your APR, the judge will ask how do you know it is wrong. You will need an answer for this.

Most times they never give you the paperwork you ask for, if you do a N244 form unless order, the court will give them till a certain date to produce the information you ask for. If they fail to do so, the case can be struck out. But if they do produce the information you ask for, you must go through it very carefully, because this can determine if you win or lose in court.

if there solicitor does come up to you in the corridor in court be nice but say go away
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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:37 pm

Thank you petesomething,

The hearing is for relief from sanctions from the N244 unless order. They claim they didn’t receive the CPR 31.14 request. Cabot have signed for it so yes they did. It states in their copy that is a template and doesn’t refer to it as the default notice,

Should the amount on the default notice be the same as the amount they are trying to recover?

The APR states 9.9 but is closer to 10.5.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Tiggy on Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:39 am

@Itzme75 wrote:Thank you petesomething,

The hearing is for relief from sanctions from the N244 unless order. They claim they didn’t receive the CPR 31.14 request. Cabot have signed for it so yes they did. It states in their copy that is a template and doesn’t refer to it as the default notice,

Should the amount on the default notice be the same as the amount they are trying to recover?

The APR states 9.9 but is closer to 10.5.
At this point, you are as you say, defending against their application for the relief from sanctions, therefore, you're looking for reasons for they shouldn't be granted it ( ie they did receive the CPR 31.14 request but failed to action it, documentation sent doesn't relate to you etc. etc. ).

If they get the relief from sanctions you can then submit a more detailed statement of case which goes into detail of why the default notice is invalid (ie doesn't conform to Section 87 of the CCA, why the agreement sent is not a true copy etc) but for now you need to focus on their lack of competency in failing to respond within the time limits set by the Civil Procedure Rule 31 and an argument as to why the court should deny their application.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:26 am

Ok thank you. That will definitely be my angle most of my witness statement is based on that. They state that there is no longer a copy of the defualt notice but have included a screen shot of it being sent. There is no name or address on the screen shot just account number but not bank account. In fact it has very little information on it. It ties into the statement they provided but again it’s not a proper statement it doesn’t have the banks logo on it. It doesn’t indicate where it has come from. The amount they are claiming appears nowhere on the statement or the screen shot. So I need more information.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Tiggy on Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:54 am

@Itzme75 wrote:Ok thank you. That will definitely be my angle most of my witness statement is based on that.  They state that there is no longer a copy of the defualt notice but have included a screen shot of it being sent. There is no name or address on the screen shot just account number but not bank account. In fact it has very little information on it. It ties into the statement they provided but again it’s not a proper statement it doesn’t have the banks logo on it. It doesn’t indicate where it has come from. The amount they are claiming appears nowhere on the statement or the screen shot. So I need more information.
Exactly, which is why you sent the CPR31.14 in the first place, but they failed (and have continued to fail ) to respond in the timeframe specified.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:01 pm

Hi, again

So I’ve been to court and the judge said relief from sanctions was inappropriate but updating the unless order was more appropriate. They have provided me with the information on the updated unless. It is now going to a full trial. I need more advice as the judge told me I would be liable for all there costs.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Tiggy on Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:48 pm

@Itzme75 wrote:Hi, again

So I’ve been to court and the judge said relief from sanctions was inappropriate but updating the unless order was more appropriate. They have provided me with the information on the updated unless. It is now going to a full trial. I need more advice as the judge told me I would be liable for all there costs.

We'd need to see a copy of the order when it comes.

You now need to go through everything they've sent you with a fine tooth comb to see whether it's enforceable against you and put together a witness statement for submission prior to the final hearing.

The only other alternative is to agree an out of Court settlement (excluding costs), this is known as a Tomlin Order, but that's only if you're not confident of winning.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:17 pm

When I go through the agreement what kind of things am I looking for. He wasn’t concerned by there failures just the fact that they said they couldn’t get hold of a default notice because the creditor didn’t keep a copy. I think the APR is wrong but I’m not sure how you find that out for sure. He awarded me my costs but not there’s. I would like to win he even asked them why it had taken them a month to ask for relief from sanctions although it wasn’t appropriate.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by petesomething on Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:37 pm

Hi Itzme75

Did you do the 3 letters before this, what new information have you
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Re: Court hearing

Post by petesomething on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:25 pm

HI

The bank cant sell your alleged debt without sending you a default notice, and also must have the correct information on it.

1/  Was the debt bought legally,
2/  Do they legally own the debt;
3/ if they cant find the default notice , maybe it was because the bank never sent one, if so the dca cant legally own the debt

in court today the judge will not be concerned with this,

cost/ if you made every effort to resolve this situation , why should you pay cost,

The agreement must be a true copy , can you read it , see  the APR

check all you paperwork
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Re: Court hearing

Post by Itzme75 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:46 pm

Solicitor said they don’t keep copies of the default notice. Do you want me to show you what they’ve sent?

Also the agreement isn’t a great copy it’s hatd to read but can be read and the APR doesn’t seem to add up. It is also unclear how many months it is over.

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Re: Court hearing

Post by petesomething on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:57 pm

Hi Itzme75

can you show us what you have been sent but remove your details.
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Re: Court hearing

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