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fine at old address.

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fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:08 am

Hi all.  Not dealt with this before as I would have done it in the first instance!

Help needed to do it right!

Ok.  Today I opened my wage slip to see that I had been deducted £811 from my pay!  This is a huge slice and I need it back!

It was a 'Court Deduction' on my slip.

I called payroll.  No help other than they will send me a copy of what they received to make that reduction.

Called a number that was on that document (not yet received by me) and spoke to a nice chap.  All recorded.

He informed me that it was due to a speeding fine (£80 - ish), not paid or contested by me, sent to an old address.
If I had seen it I would have contested or rather done what we might all do and fight it before going to court.  Anyway, it was not seen so IT went further and the police turned it into a (I forgot what it was called) more profitable fine for them.  IT went to court, a summons I assume was sent to my old address.

So, long story short, I got points on a licence I dont own, on a car that I was not driving!  And a fine of £811.  Taken directly from my wages.

I had informed the DVLA of my change of address!
The investigation they held went STRAIGHT to my work place rather than through me!

Last bits...I called the number.  Spoke to a gent that said I should make a Statutory Declaration in court that I knew nothing (true).  He contacted the court that the fine was generated and it JUST SO HAPPENS to be at the bottom of my street that we have been at for nearly two years!

What could or should I do?

Thanks chaps and chapettes!

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by pieintheskywhenIdie on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:48 pm

Statutory Declaration is the correct process, that will reset the conviction and fine etc. If it wasn't your car, nor were you driving, how did you end up getting this?

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by LionsShare on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:07 pm

@Tom Bombadil wrote:The investigation they held went STRAIGHT to my work place rather than through me!

How did they know where you work?
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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:11 pm

Thanks pitswid!

Simply, I am the registered keeper, but I was not driving.

It was for 2016 at an old address.

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:16 pm

@LionsShare wrote:
@Tom Bombadil wrote:The investigation they held went STRAIGHT to my work place rather than through me!

How did they know where you work?

I have no idea. But assuming they investigated me, I dont know if they had the right to do it! On investigation (I WILL find out who!) they would have seen not only my new address, but the one between THAT one and the old one! Each time, informing the DVLA each time!

There is no understanding as to how they missed those facts!

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tiggy on Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:24 pm

£811, is that the full amount of the fine and the amount taken?  Seems a lot to take in one go.

You need to check whether they've taken more than they should have, there's a protected earnings rate which they shouldn't go over.

The Court probably found your employer through the Inland Revenue (HMRC), it's the Court chasing the fine not DVLA, the DVLA start proceedings at your last known address then it's down to the Court to collect.

Ps how do you know you weren't driving on that specific date if you never received the paperwork - if you've moved twice since the alleged offence, then it must have been a good few months since it was committed and how can you have points on your licence for 'a licence you don't own'?

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by pieintheskywhenIdie on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:17 pm

Do you know why you didn't receive the original notices? If that was a police screw up then it gives a decent defence.

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:21 pm

@Tiggy wrote:£811, is that the full amount of the fine and the amount taken?  Seems a lot to take in one go.

You need to check whether they've taken more than they should have, there's a protected earnings rate which they shouldn't go over.

The Court probably found your employer through the Inland Revenue (HMRC), it's the Court chasing the fine not DVLA, the DVLA start proceedings at your last known address then it's down to the Court to collect.

Ps how do you know you weren't driving on that specific date if you never received the paperwork - if you've moved twice since the alleged offence, then it must have been a good few months since it was committed and how can you have points on your licence for 'a licence you don't own'?

@pieintheskywhenIdie wrote:Do you know why you didn't receive the original notices?  If that was a police screw up then it gives a decent defence.

I was not living there. Its the wife's car in my name. We moved out a year or so before that fine first arrived. Yes, I have a strong case of explaining why I could not have received the fine and then the summons.

Tiggy, I have been on the phone since and found out a lot more.

The protected earnings, they say, has 1.5k limit. I get a little more than that per month so they got for the full fine for me not informing them of the driver at the time. £811 was the sum, and those I spoke with before now have recognised that amount as standard for the no show.

It would have run thus; Fine sent to me. Pay up or disclose driver. Simple.
But I couldnt respond ; Notice of intention of going to court.
BUT i didnt respond ; Notice of summons.
Oops ; The case went to court, I 'no showed', Full fine of second case and the first speeding fine was dropped. I have been told that that is standard!

Yes. Court investigate to get sum from wages.

You ask me Tiggy how I know! They assumed I had a licence and gave me three points on that and a sum to pay via wages. As a "no show" they went straight for the wages.

I know it was not me (although I see what you mean about dates because none have been heard by me until after the court case) because I dont drive and have no licence to do so! The car is in my name as registered keeper so in this case I had no opportunity to inform on the true driver.

I am going in to make the Stat. Dec. next Wednesday, as that is when the magistrates AND the police prosecutor will will be there at the same time.

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by LionsShare on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:03 pm

@Tom Bombadil wrote:You ask me Tiggy how I know!  They assumed I had a licence and gave me three points on that and a sum to pay via wages.  As a "no show" they went straight for the wages.

Going out on a limb, looking at the statement above - its clear THEY have given themselves the "RIGHT" to "STEEL" monies from people. This IS WRONG & IMO should be stopped! What next - a raid or wind fall tax to cover?......
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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:15 pm

@LionsShare wrote:
@Tom Bombadil wrote:You ask me Tiggy how I know!  They assumed I had a licence and gave me three points on that and a sum to pay via wages.  As a "no show" they went straight for the wages.

Going out on a limb, looking at the statement above - its clear THEY have given themselves the "RIGHT" to "STEEL" monies from people. This IS WRONG & IMO should be stopped! What next - a raid or wind fall tax to cover?......

Well yes! I fully agree, but I will fight that battle AFTER I have cleared my name!

However I am aware of battles I might not win without too much time taken from me!

I will argue the toss during the chat with the three magistrates!

From what I understand about the process...
First the case will be re-opened when I get the stat. dec. out of the way and before I go I will make an offer directly to the police prosecutor as circumstances have changed and it can be resolved NOW.
I will attempt to charm the pants off of the three magistrates and get their backing.

Attempt!

I am not sure that they CAN re-open the fine as it was years ago that it was dropped. So I dont want that to be re-issued, but in the long run, I will try and get it quashed on that day!

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:25 pm

ONE MORE THING...

Am I right in thinking that they cant send the first speeding fine to me after they re-open my case?

They had dropped it to fine me for not responding.

So, is there a time limitation involved here?

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by pieintheskywhenIdie on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:24 pm

Limit is six months, so it's too late for them to charge anything that wasn't on your original court case.

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:43 pm

I thought so, but that might be for the fine for speeding and NOT for the failure to supply a name!

For this I am not sure, as we in effect re-open the case that WAS closed when I do a Stat. Dec.

So I still have to provide a name...or do I?

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tiggy on Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:21 am

@Tom Bombadil wrote:So I still have to provide a name...or do I?

That has to be up to you, if you fail to you could still be fined - think it's £300 - so they'd have to refund the £500+ they've already taken.  

Not sure what happens with an SD, whether they have to refund in full if it's accepted or they wait for the outcome of the retrial.

You only have 21 days from finding out about the original case (ie when you found the AoE on your wages) to submit an SD.

Look at this as it seems quite similar to yours, read the end bit as it gives more info. on the limitation on the speeding aspect.

http://www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t70872.html

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by pieintheskywhenIdie on Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:13 am

@Tom Bombadil wrote:So I still have to provide a name...or do I?
Even if you do, it's too late for anyone else to be charged with speeding, since it's now more than 6 moths from date of alleged offence.

I'm not sure giving the name now will in itself prevent you being convicted of failing to name, since the requirement is to name with 28 days of being asked.  You need some sort of defence as to why you couldn't do so, like not receiving the original request.

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:28 am

Thanks Tiggy. Went to the link. I read it...will read again.

Thanks PITSWID. A plan is forming...

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:09 pm

So here is a plan....

Q. How much does insurance rise after points are added?

My question is because of a simple issue. And thats this; if my wife is eventually blamed and named as the driver at the time of speeding, then her insurance rises. For three years I understand. But if it is less than £270 (one third of £811) then I might as well swallow the fine to me as it means squat to me at any level!

An answer tonight if poss, cos I is in court tomorrow...or not!

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by pieintheskywhenIdie on Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:09 am

For insurance, try a comparison quote online, not using your real name. Then add the speeding points to see what difference it makes. Some insurers ask for convictions in the last 5 years, but of course you can shop around and find one that only goes back three.

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Re: fine at old address.

Post by Tom Bombadil on Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:01 pm

Thanks everyone. Will give the outcome by the week end.

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Re: fine at old address.

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