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NIP - speeding with photo evidence

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Post by daveiron on Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:36 pm

I think I would change legal notice for lawful notice,

Hope all goes well.
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Post by itheman on Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:34 pm

cheers daveiron

i double checked on here:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/172

and have printed this to send


Notice: Submittal of Requested Information;

Maxim: The Law does not expect the impossible;

Date 10th October 2018

Dear Darren Bussler,

I have been asked to provide details that would identify the driver in an alleged offence of speeding (note your inchoate instrument enclosed).

Having previously advised you of my uncertainty regarding the identity of said driver it appears I have been branded a liar, and have been threatened with severe legal sanction if I do not comply. This puts me in a quandary, as you are technically inciting me to commit fraud under coercion, and I don't wish to possibly falsely accuse another.

I now supply you with my best guess as to who was behind the steering wheel of the car at that time in the expectation that you will reciprocate by providing the name of man or woman who claims that I am lying, that I might consider filing a claim for libel and incitement to fraud.

Having checked the relevant legislation I find no obligation to provide a 'surname', not even a requirement to provide a 'full name'. If you can show me the legislation on a signed letter that says a man or woman must: a, fill out the NIP; b, write in black ink and c, provide a surname then I will comply to your demands.

My best guess to “identify the driver” that day, is that it might have been iamnot anumber, no6 the village. Although in the interests of full disclosure he has in the past said he does not 'drive' but 'travels'. You must make of that what you will.

This fulfils any obligation I may have in this matter, I hope it helps.
My time is the most valuable commodity and any future correspondence will incur cost at the rate of:
£75 per hour (for any further research)
£40 per letter

By: iamnot a number,
Date 10,10,18

“This lawful notice adds to the Record Of The Parties”

itheman
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Post by daveiron on Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:57 pm

Yes section 172 is very clear.
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Post by itheman on Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:52 pm

Just to let you all know - "touch wood" nothing has been received back

is there a deadline - can NIPs be time-barred - if so, how long?

would like to get this in success stories Wink

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Post by daveiron on Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:58 pm

I have spent time looking ,all I can find is the 2 quotes below from law firms.
It looks a bit vague but it may well be the 6 months mentioned.

The police do have six months in which to prosecute a road traffic offence. Even if the alleged offender did not receive the NIP from the registered keeper for many months after the offence the charge will still be valid. As long as the NIP was sent to the last known address of the registered keeper of the vehicle the NIP will still be valid. If a person has been issued with an NIP it will be in their best interests to seek legal representation depending on the nature of the offence.



Once the NIP has been returned and the driver identified, the police have 6 months to progress the case further, usually by issuing a fixed penalty notice or a court summons. Alternatively, they may decide to take no action.

Once the 6 months has passed, it will be too late for the police to bring any charges against you.
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Post by daveiron on Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:10 pm

Just in case you have not seen it .paragraph 4 is the one you need.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/172
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Post by itheman on Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:56 pm

Thanks daveiron, it would seem they know this too!

Have now received Single Justice procedure Notice - with "Your Plea" and earnings form etc...

Any ideas how best to reply, they have not answered any of the points previously raised...it's a joke

The Karl Lentz approach would "addressee not recognised, return to sender". Has anyone had success with this method?

NIP - speeding with photo evidence - Page 2 Single11
NIP - speeding with photo evidence - Page 2 Single10
NIP - speeding with photo evidence - Page 2 Witnes11
NIP - speeding with photo evidence - Page 2 Certif10

Any advice greatly appreciated
cheers

itheman
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Post by daveiron on Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:14 pm

Charge 1    So by their own admission they cannot identify the driver.
Charge 2     So they are charging you with para 3.
"failed to give information relating to the identification of the driver of the vehicle"
You did give information relating to this ,the info was ,despite all your efforts you could not ascertain
who the driver was.  

I would use para 4 as your defense.
Have a look through the maxims of law and throw a couple of those in as well
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Post by itheman on Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:18 pm

Nice one daveiron, i did read para4

Should i fill in the plea form and send that?

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Post by daveiron on Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:23 pm

I guess so. make sure its within the 24 days
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Post by assassin on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:17 am

I would have added deformation of character as well.
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Post by FURBY on Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:27 pm

few years back i received NIP for traveling at 58mph on a road limited to 50mph due to driving a van and not knowing the limit is reduced for that vehicle, on the NIP form there were tick boxes...

1) i was the driver and accepted the points and fine.
2) i was the driver and wanted court to issue points and fine.
3) i was not the driver.

there was no box to say i was the driver but dispute alleged speed on the notice.  after requesting training, calibration records etc i found that the distance the camera had read my speed at was over the calibrated distance. i put all this down on a separate sheet of paper, signing and sending the reply each time to their letters.... after 3 months a summons to appear at some random court in shropshire arrived, i had been reported for the offence failing to identify a driver when requested, this was even tho i had repeatedly stated i was the driver but could not enter it on the actual NIP because there was nowhere to put it.

the actual speeding NIP was thrown out, but i was done failing to identify a driver and received 3 points + £60 fine + £25 towards victims support. the penalty now is 6 points and upto £1000 fine.... to make matters worse my insurance company put up my premium lots because its more serious than the actual speeding.

just be careful when challenging identity of a driver.
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Post by midnight on Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:32 pm

The wording contained within the "2nd offence wording if applicable" which is on the sheet marked charge detail's is interesting. "who was alleged to have been guilty of an offence". So when was the first time that this allegation of guilt of an offence made and by who. At what court did this unknown person appear and at what date and time. What was the outcome of the case. I only mention this as the wording implies vaguely that this unknown person may have been dealt with. If this is the case then it must be known to them who the person was. Sounds like psychology is being used here.


Last edited by assassin on Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling correction)

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Post by itheman on Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:27 pm

hi all,
thanks for replies, i'll get around to a reply to them soon, just come to mind.
If the plea form is filled in and sent - does this implicate joinder?
cheers

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Post by itheman on Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:31 pm

Hi all,

Still concerned that filling in the plea form will create joinder?
In addition i have no contract with the magistrate (as the plea form is "Information for the magistrate")...so who is the magistrate? But it does quite extensively mention the word court.

Should i reply to:
Stafford Combined Court Centre (as there is no name or even signature on this paperwork)?

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Post by daveiron on Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:13 pm

I guess thats a decision you will have to decide on.
Just my thoughts, charge 1. you were not driving therefor not guilty
charge 2 you did give information relating to the identification of the driver,it was the only
information you could supply after exhaustive enquiries =not guilty
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Post by itheman on Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:55 pm

Update, i sent this 26,02,19 - wonder what the reply will be...

Notice: To Dismiss;

Maxim of Law: “The Law does not expect the impossible”

Maxim of Law: “No one is to be punished for the crime or wrong of another”

Date 26th February 2019

Dear Gareth Morgan,

I write with regard to the Single Justice Procedure Notice. Posting Date: 06/02/2019 ((enclosed) it is copied and filed in my archives, should it be needed.)

To inform you that I am unaware of any matter with Staffordshire Police on 15/08/2018.
And;
Statements from Staffordshire Police regarding the alleged 2nd offence are wrong.

I demand that this matter be dismissed on the grounds:

1. a, No crime has been committed. And, b, No victim has come forward.

2. The purported offence facts are contradictory.

3. I wish to remind you of: [F1-172 Duty to give information as to identity of driver etc in certain circumstances.
(4)A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was.

I am aggrieved by the deformation of my character from Staffordshire Safer Roads Partnership.
I require you to provide the name of man or woman who claims that I am lying, that I might consider filing a claim for libel and incitement to fraud.

I require you provide me with:
1. Who is the party that is alleging these offence/s?
2. My obligation to consent to the above party.
3. Proof of my consent to the above party.
4. Proof of calibration for the device on the date of the alleged offence. Including the distance it was calibrated to be accurately used.

My time is the most valuable commodity and any future correspondence will incur cost at the rate of:
£75 per hour (for any research)
£40 per letter

By: xxxxx xxxxxx,
Date 26/02/19

“This lawful notice adds to the Record Of The Parties”

itheman
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