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Moon phases


Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

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Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by Kestrel on Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:25 pm

If a debt purchaser uses a debt collector to chase up an alleged debt & the debt collector (not purchaser) then initiates it will persue court proceedings BUT the debt purchasers name is on the court claim papers & this particular debt purchaser has 'no permissions' to collect debt (under FCA rules etc), how would you deal with this in so far as i understand the whole scenario above is not allowed/illegal?



Last edited by Kestrel on Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:39 am

1) submit the acknowledgement of service.This buys you 14 days extra to respond.
2) Check that the original debt owner is NOT in the claimants box on the claim form and that the collector is only in the agents box on the claim form.
3) If the collector is the claimant (and not agent) then they have no standing in court. However, me personally, i would keep quiet about this and reveal this last minute. It could also mean that the debt has been assigned and you never received a notice of assignment in the past.
4) file a defence saying you dont know what the claim is about as not received enough info from claimant.

collectors and purchasers bluff claims, and most people panic and make arrangements which end up "acknowledging" the debt which weakens their position and frustrates limitation act of 6 years. nearly all claims I have seen, the claimant does not have any of the required info for a claim. Ie notice of assignment etc.

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by Kestrel on Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:03 am

Thanks handle, I've a bit more information now the claimant is a Debt Purchaser which has no permissions to collect debt (going by their permissions on the FCA website), their representative is a solicitor of a third party - another DCA & not that of the claimant themselves.om

So the claim form reads from what I know:
Claimant: Debt Purchaser
Representative or agent: Solicitor (of third party DCA)

Is this actually allowed namely using a third party but the claimant cannot claim as they are not allowed to???

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by waylander62 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:24 pm

what you need to look for here is whether they are permitted to act on behalf of the purchaser/ buyer under a service agreement.

the important bit to look for is if the debt purchaser has permission to act as creditor under a regulated agreement, or that the claimant is in fact the owner if not then the claimant would need the correct permission to bring a claim.


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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:50 pm

ok, the debt purchaser can bring the claim. Eventually they need to prove a notice of assignment, You are also entitled to see the deed of assignment - they will tell you that you are not entitled but see the case on this.
Also, they need the default notice and termination notice.
and of course the original signed agreement.

They will not have any of this at the time of the claim......hold back in asking for it.
Just defend that you dont know about the claim and dont have enough info.

They take a scattergun approach to see who falls for it and tries to acknowledge/settle/make an arrangement - this lures people in.

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:28 pm

.


Last edited by handle on Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wrong thread)

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by Kestrel on Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:43 pm

Thanks again handle, would that be the Lord Denning ruling regarding case law?
I've it somewhere

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:23 pm

yes i think it was Denning
i think it was the paragon case

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by waylander62 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:59 pm

the debt purchaser must have permission to be able to act as creditor under a regulated agreement

if they are the claimant then they are acting as creditor under a regulated agreement.

worth checking and can be used as a preliminary argument should they issue a claim.

yes it was the Lord Denning case which stated that you have a right to see the sale agreement

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:32 pm

where do they get permission from?

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by waylander62 on Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:31 am

@handle wrote:where do they get permission from?

if you go on the FCA website and put in the claimants name you can open up a whole host of information, if you look it will tell you a list of their permissions, if they do not have the permission to act as creditor under a regulated agreement then that could be used.

helped someone recently, 23k debt, claim was stayed, they submitted an application to lift the stay and be awarded judgement, court called a hearing. defendant panicked and i helped them submit a witness statement, using this as the main point of argument. the application to lift the stay was accepted. the defendant represented themselves in court and brought up this argument, stopped the claim in its tracks. even the judge didnt know how to proceed so refused to award judgement.

ordered: a) the claimant to file a full amended defence including this argument
b) the claimant to file a response to this defence.

result: we filed amended defence, claimant responded with a pile of shite. after discussing the matter defendant approached a solicitor with our paperwork, solicitor said yes i will take this on.

one phone call from the solicitor to the claimant, 2 days later a letter of discontinuance !! 23k saved

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:25 am

Good......great.......I need your help
Will explain later

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by waylander62 on Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:43 am

ok will keep my on on the thread,

no guarantees with this but always worth a try and to raise it as a preliminary issue should any proceedings be initiated.

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by Kestrel on Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:50 pm

The FCA gives permissions for financial bodies to collect debt amongst other permissions but it appears many debt purchasers have no permission to collect  debt & are using third parties instead BUT the debt purchaser/creditor is the one named as claimant on court claim forms although they have no legal standing to do so - that is my interpretation & that of others, how can you 'legally' pursue a debt through the courts when not legally regulated by the FCA to do so.

Link here for searches:
https://register.fca.org.uk/

More here:
Permission to carry on debt collecting is required to collect debts arising under credit agreements, consumer hire agreements and regulated peer-to-peer loans. Utility debts and company debts are excluded as they are not credit agreements. However, any steps taken to gain payment of a debt due under a credit agreement (consumer hire agreement or regulated peer-to-peer loan) constitutes debt collecting – whether the agreement is regulated or exempt.
https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/authorisation/process/debt-collectors

I read this as if the claimant on court papers is one without 'permissions' then they cannot collect debt i.e put in a court claim.

A firm requires FCA permission to carry out activities specified by the Regulated Activities Order 2001.
'The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) Order 2001'
https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/authorisation/how-to-apply/activities

The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) (Amendment) (No.2) Order 2013
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2013/9780111100493
39D onwards appears to be debt related.

https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/finalised-guidance/consumer-credit-being-regulated-guide.pdf

Take a look at the below, I read that demands for payments should discontinue if they fail to provide evidence when you claim their claim is unproven, i.e. no proof of claim is given (applies to my current circumstances anyway)
CONC 7.5.3R01/04/2014
RP
A firm must not ignore or disregard a customer's claim that a debt has been settled or is disputed and must not continue to make demands for payment without providing clear justification and/or evidence as to why the customer's claim is not valid.
[Note: paragraph 3.7o of DCG]
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/7/5.html?date=2016-03-21

CONC 7.14.3R01/04/2014
RP
Where a customer disputes a debt on valid grounds or what may be valid grounds, the firm must investigate the dispute and provide details of the debt to the customer in a timely manner.
[Note: paragraph 3.9i of DCG]
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/7/14.html?date=2016-03-21


Last edited by Kestrel on Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:20 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : More info)

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Thanks Waylander and Kestrel.
There was a post on this forum by Tiggy which stated sometimes a company is covered by the FCA (or FOS) registration of another connected company.

I cant find that post. How can I see posts made by Tiggy?

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by Lopsum on Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:38 pm

find any post by tiggy,or member list and click on the name to see their profile / statistics then find all posts.
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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by Kestrel on Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:56 pm

@handle wrote:Thanks Waylander and Kestrel.
There was a post on this forum by Tiggy which stated sometimes a company is covered by the FCA (or FOS) registration of another connected company.

I cant find that post. How can I see posts made by Tiggy?

Yes there is something along those lines but the debt purchaser/creditor been the claimant on court papers when they have are not allowed to pursue debt, if the third party was down instead as claiming for them I would have thought they may be ok to do so, like many things it can be up in the air & who you end up in front of. I've to check but I don't think the third party can trade from the same address as the claimant & this lot I'm dealing with are or so it appears.

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by waylander62 on Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:39 pm

ring the FCA

get your questions ready, and your reasons for believing they do not have the permission and ask the FCA directly.

no need to say why, a friend or friend of a friend could need clarification.

Tiggy has always said that they act under a service agreement, but if you look more closely that is not always the case.

the claimant is trying to obtain a court order for a debt they allegedly own
therefore they are trying to exercise their rights as owner under a regulated agreement, they are now the creditor. IF they do not have permission to act as creditor under regulated consumer agreement then challenge it.

that is my thoughts anyway.

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by Jackbnimble on Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:30 am

I asked the fca the following question about 18 months ago and got the reply underneath.

If Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Limited is not authorised to undertake consumer credit business, is it allowed to hire Robinson Way Limited or any other debt collecting agency to collect this debt.

Our rules do not prevent the firm from assigning a third party firm (Robinson Way Limited) to recovery the debt on their behalf, as long as the firm is authorised or has IP.

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by Kestrel on Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:20 pm

@Jackbnimble wrote:I asked the fca the following question about 18 months ago and got the reply underneath.

If Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Limited is not authorised to undertake consumer credit business, is it allowed to hire Robinson Way Limited or any other debt collecting agency to collect this debt.

Our rules do not prevent the firm from assigning a third party firm (Robinson Way Limited) to recovery the debt on their behalf, as long as the firm is authorised or has IP.

Thanks, it all seams out of order (but it's all a game & fraud anyway but it is us who suffer). What I'm trying to find out (no joy with FCA) Is that on court papers the claimant is a firm that is unregulated/no permission to collect debt although it is the third party who is pursuing the 'alleged' debt. Now if the third party (regulated with permission to collect debt was down as the claimant I would see it differently). So how can a firm with no permission to collect debt be a claimant???

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:45 pm

One has to understand the difference between reality and fictions. Paperwork creates fictions. An assignment, a contract, a certificate all relate to a fictional entity.

A company is a fictional entity you can control and operate behind to protect you. HMRC LIKE fictions because it is another person to tax.

Back to the thread , if one company is not licensed under a regulator, it can operate with a private agreement under another company that is. Usually this so called ‘private’ agreement comes to light when a notice of assignment materialises. And finally the scope of abuse is enormous because these agreements get arranged and backdated. Only a keen eye would spot anomalies, eg like reference to legislation that happened AFTER the date on the agreement.

As this is all civil and not criminal jurisdiction people commuting any fraud are not worried until discovery.

This is where freemen of the land get only half the picture. We live in a world of commerce and ALL trading is via the use of fictions or puppets we control. Puppet masters found to be rogue then can face criminal charges.

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by waylander62 on Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:12 pm

@Jackbnimble wrote:I asked the fca the following question about 18 months ago and got the reply underneath.

If Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Limited is not authorised to undertake consumer credit business, is it allowed to hire Robinson Way Limited or any other debt collecting agency to collect this debt.

Our rules do not prevent the firm from assigning a third party firm (Robinson Way Limited) to recovery the debt on their behalf, as long as the firm is authorised or has IP.

you are missing the point here and so are the FCA, they are right it does not stop them assigning another company to collect the debt or recover the debt BUT BUT BUT

the point is if they are the claimant on the claim form then they are acting as the CREDITOR under a regulated agreement, they have to be, if they are not authorised to do so then it should be challenged, the FCA need to answer that question, not just can they collect the debt !!

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:23 pm

Here is the post from Tiggy
DO THIS EVERY TIME YOU RECEIVE A DEBT COLLECT DEMAND/CLAIM
@handle wrote:
Go to this website:
https://www.fca.org.uk/
Click on the Financial Services Register button and enter the company name on the next screen.

The info provided will show whether that company are able to collect consumer credit debts.


Be careful how you use this, some companies have only one company FCA registered, the other companies then work under a service account to the one registered company, it's a loophole in the Financial Services & Markets Act 2000.
http://goodf.forumotion.com/t1537-do-this-every-time-you-receive-a-debt-collect-demand-claim#11869

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by handle on Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:10 am

https://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=82254

The full judgement of Lord Denning et al
Postby Kidpolton8 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:18 pm

This is the full judgement in the Van Lynn case.

I have access to JustCite for a trial period of 3 days if anyone wants other cases up on here ?

[1968] EWCA Civ J1009-1
In The Supreme Court of Judicature
Court of Appeal
Between
Van Lynn Developments Limited - Plaintiffs Respondents
and
Pelias Construction Company Limited (formerly Jason Construction Company Limited) - Defendants Appellants
Royal Courts of Justice
Wednesday, 9th October 1968
Before

The Master of the Rolls (Lord Denning)
Lord Justice Davies and
Lord Justice Widgery

(Transcript of the Shorthand Notes of The Association of Official Shorthandwriters Ltd., Room 392, Royal Courts of Justice, and 2, New Square, Lincoln's Inn, London, W.C.2.)

Mr, A. B. HIDDEN and Mr. I. M. TENNANT (Instructed by Messrs. Booth & Blackwell) appeared on behalf of the Plaintiffs, Respondents.

Mr. PETER SOLOMON (instructed by Messrs. Timothy Hardacre) appeared on behalf of the Defendants, Appellants.

THE MASTER OF THE ROLLS: The plaintiff Company, Van Lynn Developments Ltd., is a company controlled by a young man, Mr. Colin Vandervell, who Is a member of a distinguished family. The defendant company was called Jason Construction Co. Ltd., but has changed Its name to Pellas Construction Company. It is controlled by another young man, Mr. Apponyi. In May of this year the Jason Construction Company Ltd. entered into a contract to build a house at Kingston Hill for a sum of nearly £15,000. It needed finance in order to be able to buy the materials and employ the labour. It got the finance through the good offices of Mr. Colin Vandervell. On his personal request, the bank allowed the Jason Construction Company to overdraw quite considerably; but Mr, Vandervell told the bank that the progress payments (to he made as the house progressed) would be paid into the bank when they were received.
After some little time there was a dispute between Mr. Apponyi and Mr. Colin Vandervell-a dispute which I think it is unnecessary to go Into this morning - but In the result Mr. Apponyi Indicated that the progress payments would not be paid into the bank so as to reduce the overdraft. Thereupon Mr. Vandervell went himself to the bank. The Bank Manager saw both Mr. Apponyi and Mr. Vandervell. The Bank manager told Mr. Apponyi that the progress payments ought to be paid into the bank so as to meet the overdraft which was accruing. Mr. Apponyi said that he did not propose to pay them into the bank. Where upon the bank manager said he would have to call in the overdraft. He did so by a let tar of 15 th June of this year. The bank wrote to the Jason Construction Company and gave notice that they required payment of the amount of £5,385 18a 3d. The bank wrote another letter on 21st June saying that unless payment was made they would have to take their legal remedies.

As Mr. Vandervell had asked the bank for the overdraft, he felt under an obligation to them. So he himself gave a guarantee to the bank for the amount of the overdraft. He followed it up by paying off himself the amount of the overdraft and he took an assignment from the bank.
The actual assignment has been produced to the Court. It is dated 26th June, 1968, It is between the National Provincial Bank and Van Lynn Developments Limited (which is controlled by Mr, Tandervell). It says that in consideration of the sum of £5,296 19s 53. paid by Van Lynn Developments Ltd. to the bank, the assigner (the bank) "here by assigns unto the assignee (Tan Lynn Developments Ltd.) all that the interest of the assigner in a debt of £5,296 19. £d. owed to the assigner by Jason Construction Co. Ltd." That was a perfectly valid assignment. The next day the solicitor for Tan Lynn Developments Ltd, wrote the following letter on which the point arises: Was it a valid notice of the assignment?

The letter is dated 27th June, 1968, by solicitors on behalf of Van Lynn Developments Ltd. to Jason Construction co. Ltd.; "Dear Sirs, We have been instructed by our above named clients.— that is Tan Lynn Developments Ltd. "to apply to you for the payment of a sum of £5,296 19s 6d. outstanding to them following the assignment of the debt to them by National Provincial Bank Limited. Notice of this Assignment has already been gives. to you. Unless we receive payment for the full amount of this debt at this office by the first post on Monday, 1st July, we have instructions that proceedings will be taken against you without further notice".
There was one sentence in that letter which was in accurate, It is the sentence, "Notice of this assignment has already been given to you". That was wrong. No notice of assignment had been given. But the question is whether, in spite of that wrong statement, the letter Itself is a notice of assignment such as to satisfy the statute. That is a pure question of law. It Is a point which we can decide today. It is an arguable point, no doubt, but I do not think we should give leave to defend simply to have It argued again. This Court le In as good a position as it ever will be to decide the matter. So I think we should decide It, even under Order XIV.

The relevant section is 136 of the Law of Property Act, 1925, which says that, "Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor … of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor … is effectual in law …. to pass and transform the date of such notice, (a) the legal right to such debt or thing in action) (b) all legal and other remedies for the same; and (c) the power to give a good discharge for the same without the concurrence of the assignor.

What Is a sufficient notice of assignment? There are only two or three oases on the subject. There is the case of Stanley v. English Fibres Industries Ltd , ( (1899) 68 Law Journal, Q.B., N.S. 839 ) which was accepted and applied by this Court in W. F. Harrison & Co. Ltd v. Burke ( 1956 2 A.E.R, 169 ), Those cases show that, if a notice of assignment purports to identify the assignment by giving the date of the assignment - and that date Is a wrong date. then the notice Is bad. The short ground of those decisions was that the notice with a wrong date was a notice of a non-existing document. Assuming those cases to be correct, they leave open the question whether it is necessary to give the date of the assignment. Test it this way: Suppose the mistaken sentence were omitted in this latter so that it ran: We have been Instructed by our above-named clients to apply to you for the payment of a sum of £5,296 19 6d. outstanding to them following the assignment of the debt to them by The National Provincial Bank. Limited", would that be a good notice, even though it gives no date for the assignment? I think it would. I think the correct Interpretation of this statute was given by Mr, Justice Atkin in the case of Penney. Gaequet. and Metcalfe T, Conklin (1913 3 £.B. 177), It is quite plain from his judgment that no formal requirements are required for a notice of assignment, It is sufficient if it "brings to the notice of the debtor with reasonable certainty the fact that the desi does assign the debt due from the debtor so as to bind the debt in his hands and prevent him from paying the debt to the original creditor". It seems to me to be unnecessary that it should give the date of the assignment so long as it makes it plain that there has in fact been an assignment so that the debtor knows to whom he has to pay the debt in the future. After receiving the notice, the debtor will be entitled, of course, to require a sight of the assignment so as to be satisfied that It is valid, and that the assigns can give him a good discharge. But the notice itself is good, even though it gives no date,

This notice does, however, go on to make an In accurate statement. It says that, "Notice of this assignment has already been given to you". But, as Lord Justice Davies said In the course of the argument, that is merely an in accurate surplusage. It can be ignored.

In my opinion, therefore, the notice of the assignment was good. The provisions of the Statute are satisfied, Van Lynn Developments Limited had a good cause of action on the date when they Issued the writ in this action, namely, on 1st July, 1968.

Mr, Solomon argued that there were other matters to be investigated. It appears that, when asked for the assignment, the plaintiff's solicitors at first handed over an inaccurate copy of the assignment. It was a draft which contained the figure of £5,239 instead of the figure of £5,396 19s. 5d, But the plaintiff's solicitor afterwards handed over an accurate copy which gave the correct figure of £5,296 19s. 5d. The explanation has been given to us. I do not think there is any need for any further investigation.

I ought to add that in his affidavit Mr. Apponyl went so far as to seek to suggest fraud or conspiracy between Mr. Vanderve and others. All I would say about that is that I think there le not the slightest shadow of basis for that suggestion, and it le a pity it was ever made.
It comes back to this: Here is a sum of money, over £5,000, owed by the Jason Construction Co. Ltd., which they have not paid. They ought to have paid the progress payments into the bank, and they did not. Naturally enough, Mr. Vandervell paid off the bank and took an assignment. The assignment is properly sued upon here. I do not see that there is any defence of any substance in the case whatsoever.


Something was said about the new wording of Order XIV, Rule 3. I do not think it makes any alteration from the previous wording. It only states in simple words the principles on which we have acted for many years under Order XIV.

The Judge gave leave to defend conditional on the full amount being paid Into Court. The defence was so shadows' that the condition was rightly imposed. I agree with Mr. Justice Fisher, and I would dismiss this appeal.

LORD JUSTICE DAVIES: I agree, and would only add some observations about the case of Denny. Gasquet. and Matoalfe v. Conklin to which my Lord has already referred. In the first place, it is to my mind clear that the document relied upon there as a notice of assignment and held by Mr. Justice Atkln to be a good notice of assignment was very much less precise than the document of the 27th June which falls to be considered In the present case. In the document In Penney's case no mention of an assignment was made at all; it referred to a deed of arrangement, though it la true it did give the date of that deed of arrangement. Secondly, there was no mention of the amount that lfad been assigned and was claimed by the assignees; it was merely a request for an account showing all dealings as between the debtor and the assignor. Thirdly, it is very interesting to notice, as was pointed out by my Lord during the argument, what was the unsuccessful argument by Mr. Groom Johnson for the defendants. According to the report, he submitted that "In order to be valid the notice must expressly state (l) that there has been assignment; (2) the names and addresses of the assignees so that the debtor may be in a position to seek out the new creditors created by the assignment for the purpose of paying the debt; arid (3) what has been assigned". The present document does show all that. It sets out the amount of the debt assigned by the bank to Van Lynn Developments Ltd. and claims that that should be paid forthwith. It seems tome that, leaving out of consideration the last sentence of the first paragraph of that letter, that Is a perfectly satisfactory notice of assignment in every respect, and that its validity cannot be destroyed by the inaccurate statement in the second sentence of that paragraph.
I agree, for the reasons which my Lord has given, that this appeal should be dismissed.
LORD JUSTICE WIDGERY: I agree and would point out that the only formality required by the section is that express notice in writing be given to the debtor. The section does not speak of "a notice" it speaks of "notice". Accordingly, It is wrong to suppose that a separate document purposely prepared as a notice, and described as such is necessary in order to satisfy the statute. The statute only requires that information relative to the assignment shall be conveyed to the debtor, and that it shall be conveyed in writing. That fact Is fully demonstrated by the Judgment of Mr. Justice Atkin to which reference has already been made. Once it is appreciated that the section requires no more, it becomes obvious that the objection to the notice in this case, that it was not intended as a notice but merely to record the fact that notice had already been given, must fail. The letter of the 27th June in my Judgment undoubtedly contains the necessary particulars and it matters not in the slightest that the writer did not think when he wrote the letter that he was performing the function of giving notice under the section. So far as the argument based on failure to give the date of the assignment is concerned, It seems to me it would be very undesirable to attach, to this procedure, technicalities which are not mentioned In the statute and which are not necessary to give effect to it. The notice is a notice given by the assignee for his own protection, It is given by the assignee In order to prevent the debtor continuing to deal with the assignor. It is clearly necessary that the debtor should be given information which tells him that an assignment has been made, which identifies the debt, and which sufficiently identifies the assignee. I see no reason at all why other and Irrelevant Information should be required as a feature of the notice. It is said that in some instances the debtor would want to know the date of the assignment. For my part I find it very difficult to visualise a case in which the date would have any relevance at all so far as the debtor was concerned, and I would certainly regard it as a retrograde step to require, as a general rule, that the notice should specify the date of the assignment, I would therefore dismiss this appeal.

Appeal dismissed with costs in any event, such costs to Include the costs of the hearing before Mr, Justice Crichton.

Van Lynn Developments Ltd v Pelias Construction Co. Ltd (formerly Jason Construction Co. Ltd) 1968

Summary
Contract - Parties - Assignment
Key Subsequent TreatmentsSee all
• Distinguished in Cooperatieve Centrale Raiffeisen-Boerenleenbank BA v Motorola Electronics Pte Ltd [2010] 3 SLR 48
• Considered in Santander Uk Plc (Claimant/Respondent) v Keith Harrison & Susan Patricia Harrison (Defendants/Appellants) [2013] Bus LR 501
• Followed in Sena Land Development Sdn Bhd; Sungei Way Leasing Sdn Bhd [1989] 3 MLJ 37
Key Cases ConsideredSee all
• Applied Denney, Gasquet and Metcalfe v Conklin [1913] 3 KB 177
• Distinguished Harrison (W F) & Co Ltd v Burke [1956] 1 WLR 419
• Distinguished Stanley v English Fibres Industries (1899) 68 LJQB 839
Legislation ConsideredSee all
• Law of Property Act 1925 s. 136 (1925 c. 20 s. 136)

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Re: Debt purchaser using DCA to initiate court proceedings but purchaser without permissions is on court papers

Post by daveiron on Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:36 am

Hi handle,

Do you have the Carey/ HSBC case ? wouldn't mind a look at that. thanks dave.
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