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Claim Form Southern Water

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Claim Form Southern Water  - Page 2 Empty Re: Claim Form Southern Water

Post by daveiron on Sun May 12, 2019 5:43 pm

Ok ,most of that is not needed as its intended for credit cards / loans etc.

Nothing has been assigned as its still with water company.
All you require is a true copy of agreement / contract ,inc terms and conditions. you could ask if any insurance claim has been made in respect of the alleged debt.
They are claiming they supplied water & sewage services , you do not have a contract with them,Water is a God given right to be shared by all and not the property of some corporation.
That is pretty much it .
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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Sun May 12, 2019 5:53 pm

I only sent them 2 of the 3 letters recently, although I had sent them
3 letters a few years ago.

I will post another CPR 18 to see what you think.

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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Sun May 12, 2019 5:59 pm

Is this ok, I've taken out no.s 2-6 and changed three (3) letters for two (2)?


Notice in writing.

Date xxxx

Dear Sirs,

Re: (Claimants name) v (Your name) Case no:

CPR 18 Preliminary Request for further information / clarification.

On the (date), I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the Court in which I indicate my intention to contest your entire claim.

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered Two (2) requests for the production of the Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim,and on which you intend to rely. Those requests have not been complied with.

Please treat this Notice in Writing as my Preliminary Request for further information made under CPR Part 18 for the following,including any documentation mentioned within the particulars of Claim,for which I request the production of a verified and legible copy.Please accept this request by way of service upon you:

1. The agreement,including the specific Terms at the point the alleged Agreement was made and any subsequent changes.You will appreciate by reason of the provisions of CPR 39.a(3.3) requires ,The originals of the documents contained in the trial bundle,together with copies of any other Court Orders should be available at the trial. Further that any general conditions incorporated in the agreement should also be attached.
2. A signed statement by a named man / woman from (the original creditor ) that this agreement / note/account has never been sold or traded in any way and the claimant holds full title to the agreement.
3. A signed statement by a named man / woman from the (OC) that no insurance claim has been or will be made in respect of this agreement /note/ account.
4. I deny any indebtedness to the Claimant but particularly deny they are due statutory interest on the alleged amount of £ xxx.xx and as such I request full disclosure of the amount the Claimant alleges to have paid for this alleged debt.
5. Also,I would request under Civil Procedure Rule 39 pd 39a (3.3) the originals of any documents upon which you, the claimant intends to rely,are brought to any subsequent hearing for examination.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 18 duties and ensure that the information I have requested is collated and received by me within 14 days of receiving this notice. failure to produce the information requested will result in an Application to the Court to order the information be provided.

If you are unable to comply with this request,I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

yours faithfully.

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Post by daveiron on Sun May 12, 2019 8:31 pm

Looks fine except no 4 . Drop the part relating to the debt being bought .
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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Sun May 12, 2019 8:58 pm

Great thanks, no.4 reads now reads like this

4. I deny any indebtedness to the Claimant but particularly deny they are due statutory interest on the alleged amount of £ xxx.xx .

In the defence box of the claim form do I just write simply ' I have no contract with the claimant'

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Post by daveiron on Mon May 13, 2019 7:19 am

sounds fine.
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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Mon May 13, 2019 8:22 am

Ok I think I'm nearly set, to send the response pack to the court and then the CPR 18 to both Southern Water and the debt collector.

Just a couple of things.
Where it says (the original creditor ) on the CPR 18 I fill in with 'Southern Water', is this corrrect?
Also at what point do I ask for the proceedings to be brought to my local court?

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Post by daveiron on Mon May 13, 2019 8:29 am

Yes thats correct. Not sure when to ask about location so I would request it your response pack.
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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Mon May 13, 2019 8:44 am

It might be an idea to phone my local court and ask?
I'm going out this morning but will be back online later.
Thanks daveiron, you're support is much appreciated, I feel a lot better
about this, feels good to be at least questioning things and not just giving in.

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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Tue May 14, 2019 9:55 am

I've asked my local court how to change the venue and am waiting a reply.
I've googled it and seems to be automaticallly changed to the local court if defending all of the claim.
I'd like confirmation of this so I know for sure.

Meanwhile I starting to question/ doubt.
I know we all own the water but aren't these people bringing it and taking it away.
Isn't that a service?

Originally I paid with a A4V, so in my understanding, that was payment and the cash we
send was double dipping. Now I know we can't pay with A4V.
How do I actually send payment if I don't send them money/cash?
What I'm saying is that surely I owe them something for the service and if they
are double dipping then that's their look out.

Please explain or help me with this doubt someone if you can.

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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Tue May 14, 2019 2:07 pm

Have talked to my County Court on the phone and they said the case will be referred to them automatically if I decide to defend the case.

That's good news however the N244 form would cost £255 if I needed it as part of the process.

Still having my doubts and am thinking about paying in installments.

Please comment or advise, thank you all very much.

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Post by daveiron on Tue May 14, 2019 2:17 pm

Hi, Why do you need an N244 .If you are simply defending there is no cost to you.
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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Tue May 14, 2019 3:14 pm

Hi, going by Lopsum's post if things go to court he says after sending the CPR 18

'This is when you need to be fast. If they do not respond to you after the deadline, you need to apply to the court for unless order. You can download this online it is form N244. But to apply for this there is a court fee involved. You will have to contact your local court for their fee's.'



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Post by daveiron on Tue May 14, 2019 3:39 pm

Take a read of this . Form EX160 see if you are eligible ,just in case.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-help-with-court-and-tribunal-fees
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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Tue May 14, 2019 3:48 pm

Thanks, I don't receive any of the benefits listed, although my income is very low.
£255 would be a lot to find as I'm stretched already.


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Post by waylander62 on Tue May 14, 2019 4:01 pm

its not that simple, if you make a genuine request for documentation you are entitled to and they do not provide them

then you can submit an unless order for the court to order them to be provided, this application costs £255, however if it is their fault that you have had to make the application through them not providing you with the docs you are entitled to then request that the claimant pays the cost of the application.

just make sure that what you are asking for you are entitled to.

an unless order can also get the claim struck out if they dont complywith any court order.

it is up to you ?

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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Tue May 14, 2019 4:52 pm

Thanks for your reply, could you check my request and my entilement to the documentation, would be very much appreciated.
Here's the details

The Claimant is Southern Water
and the address for sending documents and payments is a debt collector Shulman who I have sent the 3 letter process a few years in the past and also 2 of the letters just recently. They also switched to another company UK Search who I sent the three letters to when threatened with court. They then switched back to the current lot (Shulmans)who say they are part of the UKsearch (if I understood it correctly). They both say they haven't bought the debt and are just collecting on behalf of the water company.

Particulars of Claim

The Claimant is a statutory water and sewerage undertaker pursuant to the Water Industry Act 1991 (the Act)
The Claimant claims the sum of £xxxx.xx for unpaid water and/or sewerage charges payable under s.142-144 of the Act and the Claimants' Charges Scheme.
The unpaid sum of £xxxx.xx is for water and/or sewerages services provided to the Defendant(s) at
Foxingham Palace for the period 200 BC to 23 AD.
The Claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 19 AD to 23AD on £xx.xx and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at the daily rate of £x.xx

My CPR 18 looks like this:

Notice in writing.

Date xxxx

Dear Sirs,

Re: (Claimants name) v (Your name) Case no:

CPR 18 Preliminary Request for further information / clarification.

On the (date), I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the Court in which I indicate my intention to contest your entire claim.

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered Two (2) requests for the production of the Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim,and on which you intend to rely. Those requests have not been complied with.

Please treat this Notice in Writing as my Preliminary Request for further information made under CPR Part 18 for the following,including any documentation mentioned within the particulars of Claim,for which I request the production of a verified and legible copy.Please accept this request by way of service upon you:

1. The agreement,including the specific Terms at the point the alleged Agreement was made and any subsequent changes.You will appreciate by reason of the provisions of CPR 39.a(3.3) requires ,The originals of the documents contained in the trial bundle,together with copies of any other Court Orders should be available at the trial. Further that any general conditions incorporated in the agreement should also be attached.
2. A signed statement by a named man / woman from (the original creditor ) that this agreement / note/account has never been sold or traded in any way and the claimant holds full title to the agreement.
3. A signed statement by a named man / woman from the (OC) that no insurance claim has been or will be made in respect of this agreement /note/ account.
4. I deny any indebtedness to the Claimant but particularly deny they are due statutory interest on the alleged amount of £ xxx.xx .
5. Also,I would request under Civil Procedure Rule 39 pd 39a (3.3) the originals of any documents upon which you, the claimant intends to rely,are brought to any subsequent hearing for examination.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 18 duties and ensure that the information I have requested is collated and received by me within 14 days of receiving this notice. failure to produce the information requested will result in an Application to the Court to order the information be provided.

If you are unable to comply with this request,I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

yours faithfully.

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Post by waylander62 on Tue May 14, 2019 6:40 pm

this is a tough one

your letter is really for loans credit cards etc etc, not for services such as water, this comes under a completely different statute.
i am not familiar with water debts or how you can fight them in court, unless you actually dont owe what they are claiming.

a contract is offer and acceptance, they are offering you water and to take away the sewage, by using the water and flushing away the sewage then they will argue that you have accepted their offer.

maybe others will know more about such debts than i do.

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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Tue May 14, 2019 7:05 pm

Thanks for your help, I had similar thoughts.


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Post by Scarlet Tiger on Wed May 15, 2019 8:54 am

Looks like the instalment plan then guys unless someone has any other ideas.

Thanks once again and good luck everyone!

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Post by waylander62 on Wed May 15, 2019 9:31 am

do you believe that the money they are saying you owe them is incorrect ?

you could have a read of the 2 statutes they are taking you to court using
i) Water Industry Act 1991 (the Act)
ii) s.142-144 of the Act and the Claimants' Charges Scheme.

ask for a copy of the charges scheme ? you can always opt to go for mediation if the claim continues ? avoid a CCJ ?


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Post by LionsShare on Wed May 15, 2019 4:11 pm

sections 142-144 of said act mention schedule 4A below.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/56/schedule/4A

in the narrative it mentions "dwelling-house", this could be - not fully sure - the Irish equivalent of a composite heritament in UK ctax - that is properties that are deemed liable for ctax - commercial properties.

Is you house a commercial property?  - This WILL need thorough investigation but on this single point I-AM-NOT-FULLY-SURE.

ask them if thier charges are for commercial property? - worth a try

please becareful.
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