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Moon phases


More teeth!

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More teeth!

Post by petesomething on Thu May 18, 2017 8:25 pm

Hi Lopsum,

Can you have a look at this and let me know what you think. I have added it to the general section, so anyone can use it. But i think it would be a good template letter to be sent with any bill.

Myself and Daveiron had the same idea to add more teeth to the three letter process. On one of my debts that got written off, I had to use the 3 letters, estoppel and 2 bills. But with the second bill, i added a letter basically saying i would defend not only the alleged debt, but i would vigorously defend against any solicitors fees and court costs if it proceeds to court, and then i got a letter from them with £0.00 balance.

Most of the small alleged debts are under £1000, these days it seems the debt collection firms are taking more people to court. The trick is, is to try and stop them in their tracks before court action. This is what the 3 letters, estoppel and bills do, and they have been very successful. But they are getting brave again now, more teeth are needed.

Say they went into court for a debt of £800, now this would cost them £800 in solicitors fees and court costs. But if they win, you have to pay, but if they won on the debt side, but lost on the solicitors fees and court costs, because you made every effort to resolve this situation, before court action. There would be no point in taking anyone to court for small debts and i will say this debt solicitors will use solicitors fees and court costs to put fear in you before court day. So the trick is turn this around and put the fear back into the debt collectors.

I think the 3 letters are brilliant the way they are now, especially with the teeth ceylon gave them with the billing. And the estoppel and bill are fine. But people are still getting letters after this, my suggestion is when you send the first bill or any further bills after, we should have a template letter to add more teeth.

Also like i have said before most people don't turn up for court out of fear and lose by default. This letter mentions court and this takes that power away from them, because this letter shows you are willing to defend yourself.

Use Daveiron's letter for example, see below, also i added a bit.

Letter to be sent with a bill.


Dear xxxxx
I am in receipt of your letter dated xxxxx received xxxxxxx.

Take notice I reject your assumption / presumption that I owe your corporation money.
As I do not intend to engage in letter ping pong with you I will make my position clear, you should read this letter fully and carefully.

On (insert date) I requested documentation from  xxxxxxxxx  for proof of claim regarding this alleged debt. In fact xxxxxxxxx have now been asked on three (3) occasions to supply valid proof of claim, that you have been unable to supply.

This leaves me somewhat bemused as I have on every occasion stated that I will pay any and all money I may lawfully owe to you upon valid proof of claim. Surely if you had any proof of claim you would have supplied it and been paid. You bought this alleged debt for pennies in the pound.

You also have been requested on three (3) occasions to supply proof of claim, which you also seem unable to supply.
As you now intimate possible further proceedings in this matter I will be requiring additional information from yourselves so as to present a full defense in court.
The additional information I require from you is.

1. A signed statement from a named individual from xxxxxxxxx  that prior to the sale to you, that this agreement has never been sold or traded in any way.
2. A signed statement from a named individual from xxxxxxxxx  that no insurance claim has been made in respect of this claim.
These are in addition to the documentation requested that you have failed to so far provide. All including the original agreement will be required in court should you decide to proceed.

However because I have made every effort prior to any court action to settle this situation and you have blatantly refused to supply any proof of any legal ownership of the alleged debt, I will vigorously defend against any solicitors fees and court costs, and on the second note the claim itself.

We trust this clarifies our position.


Last edited by petesomething on Fri May 19, 2017 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add)
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Re: More teeth!

Post by Lopsum on Fri May 19, 2017 2:54 am

yes good work ! Lets add it to the process !
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Re: More teeth!

Post by landlubber on Sun May 21, 2017 2:51 pm

Brilliant idea...

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Re: More teeth!

Post by daveiron on Sun May 21, 2017 4:37 pm

Hi lopsum ,
I have had another look at my letter to debt collectors & feel a couple of tweeks are needed ,just for proper clarity.
i have not changed any of petes additions ,just my original letter ,take a look see what you think.i have retyped the whole post if that makes it easier.
regards dave.


Hi Lopsum,

Can you have a look at this and let me know what you think.I have added it to the general section,so anyone can use it.But I think it would be a good template letter to be sent with any bill.

Myself and Daveiron had the same idea to add more teeth to the three letter process.On one of my debts that got written off ,I had to use the 3 letters,estoppel and 2 bills.But with the second bill,I added a letter basically saying I would defend not only the alleged debt ,but I would vigorously defend against any solicitors fees and court costs if it proceeds to court,and I then got a letter from them with £0.00 balance.

Most of the small alleged debts are under £1000, these days it seems the debt collection firms are taking more people to court.The trick is to try and stop them in their tracks before court action.This is the 3 letters,estoppel and bills do,and they have been very successful.But they are getting brave again now more teeth are needed.

Say they went into court for a dept of £800,now this would cost them £800 in solicitors fees and court costs,But if they win,you have to pay,but,if they won on the debt side ,but lost on the solicitors fees and court costs ,because you made every effort to resolve this situation,before court action.There would be no point in taking anyone to court for small debts and I will say this debt solicitors will use solicitors fees and court costs to put fear in you before court day,So the trick is turn this around and put the fear back into the debt collectors.

I think the 3 letters are brilliant the way they are now,especially with the teeth ceylon gave them with the billing.And the estoppel and bill are fine.But people are still getting letters after this, my suggestion is when you send the first bill or any further bills after,we should have a template letter to add more teeth.

Also like I have said before most people don't turn up for court out of fear and lose by default.This letter mentions court and takes that power away from them,because this letter shows you are willingto defent yourself.

Use Daveiron's letter for example,see below,also I added a bit.

Letter to be sent with a bill
----------------------------

Dear xxxx(Name of debt purchasing company)
I am in receipt or your letter dated xxxxx received xxxxxxx.

Take notice I reject your assumption/presumption that I owe your corporation money.
As I do not intend to engage in letter ping pong with you I will make my position clear,you should read this letter fully and carefully.

On (insert date) I requested documentation from (original creditor) for proof of claim regarding this alleged debt.In fact ( original creditor) have now been asked on (3) three occasions to supply valid proof of claim.They have been unable to supply this.

This leaves me somewhat bemused as I have on every occasion stated that I will pay any and all money I may lawfully owe upon valid proof of claim.Surely if they had valid proof of claim they would have supplied it and been paid in full ,instead of selling this alleged debt to you for pennies in the pound.

You also have been requested on (3) three occasions to supply proof of claim,which you also seem unable to supply.

As you now intimate possible further proceedings in this matter I will be requiring additional information from yourselves so as to present a full defense in court.
The additional information I require from you is .

1. A signed statement from a named individual from ( OC) that prior to the sale to you ,that this agreement has never been sold or traded in any way.
2. A signed statement from a named individual from (OC) that no insurance claim has been made in respect of this claim.
These are in addition to the documentation requested that you have failed to so far provide.All including the original agreement will be required in court should you decide to proceed.

However because I have made every effort prior to any court action to settle this situation and you have blatantly refused to supply any proof of any legal ownership of the alleged debt,I will vigorously defend against any solicitors fees and court costs,and on the second note the claim itself.

I trust this clarifies my position.




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Re: More teeth!

Post by Lopsum on Sun May 21, 2017 8:08 pm

lol i cant tell whats different , just read it twice , help me out a bit!
Im happy if it makes sense  , im also happy for you and pete to collaborate more if you feel it can be any stronger , pete is admin and can make .doc files so he can update what we already have, just let me know when its done so i can update the filevault! Very Happy
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Re: More teeth!

Post by daveiron on Sun May 21, 2017 9:37 pm

A few small changes to the letter,just for greater clarity .the rest is as before.

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Re: More teeth!

Post by petesomething on Mon May 22, 2017 6:35 am

ok i will update tonight
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Re: More teeth!

Post by assassin on Thu May 25, 2017 3:08 am

Remember it is all a play on words and getting the terminology right is the most important aspect of any case.
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Re: More teeth!

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