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RobWay/Cohen - advice please?

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Post by Musicbox34 on Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:13 am

Hi,
I was a member of GOODF forum a few years ago and had some helpful advice and I've used the 3 letters with good results up to now.
I have an alleged cc debt bought by Hoist. I've been through the 3 letters and estoppel with them.
They have sent me a photocopy of a cc agreement, legible, but not dated. The agreement is well before 2007 and the amount is under £10000.
They have now sent me a letter titled "Pre Legal Assessment" that states they have decided they have enough evidence to take this to court and will passing this to Cohen's solicitors without further notice within the next 10 days.
I'm not sure what to do next as the 3 letters have always worked before and nothing has ever gone this far.
Please can you advise what I should do next? I seem to remember reading something about replying to a letter before action, but I don't know where to find an up to date version, or exactly what to send. Or do I wait until I hear from the solicitors and start again with the 3 letters to the solicitors? (That's what I did with others in the past and the solicitors gave up and passed it back to the DCs after the 3 letters and estoppel).
Many thanks for your help!

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Post by Mrblue on Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:31 am

If it really is that old, then the debt isn’t legally enforceable (way past 6 years statute barred and a Debt Purchaser is prohibited from contacting you under FCA regulations).

So I’m not sure why they are being stupid enough to go down that route. Do you have evidence that the debt is statute barred? In the meantime you could write to the Debt Purchaser and state what I have said.
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Post by Mrblue on Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:47 am

(Actually the DP will know full well they cannot chase you for it nor take you to court over it. They’re just hoping that you don’t know where you stand legally) Wink
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Post by daveiron on Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:15 am

Welcome musicbox,
You say the agreement is pre 2007 . The important thing is the date of default do you have that ?
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Post by Musicbox34 on Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:30 am

Thanks for the replies.
It's not statute barred. I meant that the date of agreement is pre-2007. The date of default is about 2013 (don't have the details with me at the moment).

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Post by Mrblue on Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:09 pm

Ok so you’re v close as it’s 2019 Smile

They haven’t got enough evidence and they know it. Have your pre action conduct letter ready to go should you need it.
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Post by Musicbox34 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:23 am

So should I just ignore Rob Way for the moment and wait for a letter from the solicitors? Will that give me time to send a pre action conduct letter? (And can you tell me where to find it please?)
It's the first time anyone has produced anything in support of their claim, so I don't want to make any mistakes.

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Post by Mrblue on Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:30 am

You could send letter 3 again and say “I have now requested the required evidence to substantiate your claim for a 4th time.”
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Post by Mrblue on Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:33 am

http://goodf.forumotion.com/t41-the-3-letters-process

Scroll down to the pre action conduct letter. Have this drafted (will be your response to their solicitor IF they actually follow through)

If they do follow through, further help will be st hand but let’s see if they even get that far.
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Post by Mrblue on Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:35 am

Also send data subject access request (DSAR or SAR) to the original creditor asap.

DaveIron: can’t find the link to your SAR template which I think was the best one
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Post by daveiron on Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:18 am

Tbh All I personally use is below;

This is a Subject Data Access request . under The Freedom of Information Act 2000 please
supply any & all information you hold on myself (enter name). All information must be supplied
in a format that I can access without specialized equipment.

Its short and simple & does away with listing things ,as any and all means just that.
Its always worked for me. I have just added the last line to give no wriggle room.
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Post by Mrblue on Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:40 am

Yep perfect and agreed, thanks DI Smile
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Post by Mrblue on Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:49 am

Musicbox: you have nothing to worry about. Even IF they had a true copy of the agreement (they don’t) they need the Ts & Cs. And even then, so what..? Means at some point in the past you may have taken out a loan / CC or whatever. And? Does that mean the debt is still outstanding / not paid off? Course not.

Where’s the default notice to confirm the related loan / CC became a debt for whatever sum???
Where are the statements to prove the sums are correct etc?
Where’s the Notice of Assignment (issued by the original creditor - who cares if the debt Purchaser sends you a copy - they can make these up / I’ve experienced this before). Where’s the deed of assignment? Etc.

The SAR will reveal all....

Nothing to worry about like I said Wink

The scum bags need the legal paper work, end of (they know it).. W/o that, all they have is the hope they’ll con you (which is what they doing). Well they can take a swing for it.

Have fun - it’s a game.
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Post by Musicbox34 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:44 pm

Thanks for all the info!

The last letter I had from Rob Way (just before the one where they said they were passing this to Cohen solictors), says they have sent everything they are obliged to send. This is:
- Copy of the agreement - they say does not need to be certified or original and is all they need to provide under the consumer credit act.
- They say they do not need to recognise the request for a bill of exchange as this is not related to the account.
- They say a letter they sent previously is the Notice of Assignment and that notice is all that is required to fulfil the legal obligations so they will not provide a Deed of Assignment or Deed of Novation.
- They say they will not provide the name of the authorised representative as this is privileged information.
- They say they do not recognise that there is a valid dispute.

So that is what I have from them so far and what they say is enough to proceed.

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Post by Mrblue on Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:35 am

They are wrong. Get the SAR sent off and a pre action conduct letter drafted which will go to their solicitor.
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Post by Musicbox34 on Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:23 pm

@Mrblue wrote:They are wrong. Get the SAR sent off and a pre action conduct letter drafted which will go to their solicitor.

Thanks - I'll do that!

About the SAR - there were 2 different accounts with the OC. Is it possible to ask for the info just related to that one, or will they just send everything they have and I need to sort it all out? (Asking for reasons of space really - they probably have quite a lot!)

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Post by Mrblue on Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:33 pm

No problem.

They should separate out the info per account or you could explicitly ask them to do so.
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Post by Musicbox34 on Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:55 am

Well I've now had a letter from Cohens saying they are going to take this to court.
I've got the pre action conduct letter ready. Am I supposed to sign this the same way as the 3 letters (Authorised Agent and Representative etc.) or just sign it normally?
They've enclosed a Reply Form and Income and Expenses Sheet - do I ignore these? The Reply Form says it must be returned within 30 days?
Thanks for the help.

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Post by waylander62 on Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:20 pm

you have received an official letter before action, you need to respond to this.

you only need to fill in and send back 1 form, which is the one that requires documentation.

you need to send an official CCA request and also a further letter asking for documentation that you entitled to.

you must do this within 30 days else you will next receive a claim form

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Post by Musicbox34 on Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:16 am

Thanks for the reply waylander62.

So to be clear I need to send this letter (quoted below)? Do I sign it normally or in the same way as the 3 letters?
On the Reply Form I should tick the section for "I dispute the debt" and then fill in the section asking for more documents or information? What should I put here? I haven't gone this far with an alleged debt before so I want to make sure I have everything right at this stage!

Is this the letter I need to send?

=====
SENT BY RECORDED DELIVERY Your address

Your ref.:

Their address

Date

Dear Sirs,

Re: Your Client – xxxxx Limited
Pre Action Conduct - Request for Information

With regard to your letter dated xxxxx 2015, which stated Legal Action would be taken, I take this to be a Letter before Action under the above named Pre Action Conduct Protocol and as such I am responding accordingly.

As you have indicated you are acting on behalf of xxxxx Limited in this action, I assume you are authorised to accept service of documentation, therefore, please accept this request for Information sufficient to understand the claim being threatened and as such is in accordance Section 3 of the Pre Action Conduct, by way of Service Upon You and your client.

As I have never entered into any Legal Agreement or Contract with your client, for any monies or specifically for the alleged amount of £xxxxx; and I neither accept nor acknowledge the assertion any debt has been Legally and Absolutely Assigned to your client, I therefore, request the following documentation under Pre Action Conduct Section 6 (c) as proof of your Clients assertions of a Legal Obligation, to be provided to me within 40 days of the post marked date of this letter.

I. Pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974) a copy of the Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement, along with a copy of the original Terms & Conditions and any and all subsequent changes in said Terms & Conditions.

II. Statements of the Account referred to, including details of all payments made and calculation of how interest was charged against each item, leading to the Alleged Debt of £xxxxx.

III. Also, as this is an Alleged Debt, I believe Default Charges may have been applied to the Account and as such may be unlawful under the Unfair Consumer Contract Terms Regulations 1999, therefore, I would request details of each and every Default Charge applied to the Account (i.e. if the charge was for ‘Administration’ what Administration was undertaken to support the Default Charge) along with details of any Interest Charged against each Default Charge applied.

IV. In accordance with Section 87.1 Of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) a copy of the Default Notice from the original owners of the Alleged Debt and Certified Copies of how this was served upon me.

V. A copy of the Legal / Absolute Assignment of the Agreement, including a copy of a Duly Executed Deed of Assignment and / or Deed of Tripartite Novation; and

VI. In accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how I was served with the Alleged Legal Assignment.

VII. A copy of the Alleged Notice of Assignment sent by the original creditor to the Defendant and again, in accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how this was Served upon me.

Should proceedings commence against me and your client fail to provide each and every document requested, I will make an Application to the Court to Stay your Clients claim until the request is complied with and request the Court impose Sanctions against yourself and your client for failure to adhere to the provisions of the above mentioned Practice Direction.

Also please be aware, each document listed is required to provide absolute and legal proof of your client’s contention of a legal indebtedness towards them and again, should your client fail to produce said documentation and Proceedings Commence against me I will apply to the Court to Stay your Clients claim Until said documentation is received.

As a part of my defense I will re-request production of each and every document under an appropriate Civil Procedure Rule, along with a request under CPR Part 39.a (3.3) for the original of every document upon which you intend to rely be brought to any subsequent hearing for examination.

Please note, where I have mentioned a document and there is in your clients possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

I look forward to your response in due course.

Yours faithfully

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Post by waylander62 on Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:47 pm

yes that is ok, but i would also send an official CCA request for the agreement and T & C's along with the statutory £1 payment, make it clear that the £1 is NOT to be used for anything other than the statutory requirement.

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Post by Mrblue on Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:49 pm

@waylander62 wrote:yes that is ok, but i would also send an official CCA request for the agreement and T & C's along with the statutory £1 payment, make it clear that the £1 is NOT to be used for anything other than the statutory requirement.

Hi Waylander62, hope you’re well!

Do you have a template for this official CCA request? The template letter above (pre action conduct letter) also asks for the CCA (and I assumed in a formal capacity) so why the need for a separate CCA request?

Thanks buddy! Smile
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Post by waylander62 on Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:50 pm

It is possible for them to wriggle out of providing the agreement based on that type of letter at this early stage and go ahead and issue a claim.

however the CCA states that a request can be made for a copy of the agreement, a statutory fee is payable (£1). Failure to comply with this official request under the act renders any agreement unenforceable until the request has been complied with.

So sending a request for the agreement separately as per the CCA, in my opinion, closes any doors the DCA might try to use to escape.

the courts will frown on any claimant issuing a claim whilst in breach of an official CCA request, even strike out the claim.

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Post by Musicbox34 on Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:02 am

Is there somewhere I can find a template for the official CCA request?
Rob Way already sent me a signed copy of the credit agreement with terms & conditions (so I know they have it), but should I still ask for this again?
Thanks for the help so far.

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Post by waylander62 on Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:57 pm

If you have already received a signed copy of the agreement then there isnt really any need sending a new one.

have you sent a SAR ?

any news on the default notice?

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