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Wards

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Wards

Post by Phillpots on Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:01 pm

We just had an election but before that we had some local. So who knows the wards where you live in the UK? Who is in charge of the ward etc. Well wouldn't it be interesting if you knew what and how many wards were in your area. A subject that would require investigation 'so to speak' to find out who is in charge of these wards. But also what is their purpose. If you had a real problem could you rely on them to take your questions forward. It's a starting point in your local community, do you not think?

Etymology online
ward (v.)
Old English weardian "to keep guard, watch, protect, preserve," from Proto-Germanic *wardon "to guard" (source also of Old Saxon wardon, Old Norse varða "to guard," Old Frisian wardia, Middle Dutch waerden "to take care of," Old High German warten "to guard, look out for, expect," German warten "to wait, wait on, nurse, tend"), from PIE *war-o- (see ward (n.)). French garder, Italian guardare, Spanish guardar are Germanic loan-words. Meaning "to parry, to fend off" (now usually with off) is recorded from 1570s. Related: Warded; warding.

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Re: Wards

Post by landlubber on Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:33 pm

I don't vote! However, I am aware of the wards in my town and have been ever since I first had any dealings with my town hall and councilors.

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Re: Wards

Post by Phillpots on Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:37 pm

Not voted myself for years now. Interesting about the description on the word ward though. I mean are they?

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Re: Wards

Post by Waffle on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:26 pm

WARD, domestic relations. An infant placed by authority of law under the care of a guardian.

2. While under the care of a guardian a ward can make no contract whatever binding upon him, except for necessaries. When the relation of guardian and ward ceases, the latter is entitled to have an account of the administration of his estate from the former. During the existence of this relation, the ward is under the subjection of his guardian, who stands in locoparentis.

WARD, a district. Most cities are divided for various purposes into districts, each of which is called a ward.

WARD, police. To watch in the day time, for the purpose of preventing violations of the law.

2. It is the duty of all police officers and constables to keep ward in their respective districts.

WARD IN CHANCERY. An infant who is under the superintendence of the chancellor.

WARDEN. A guardian; a keeper. This is the name given to various officers: as, the warden of the prison; the wardens of the port of Philadelphia; church wardens.

WARDSHIP, Eng. law. Wardship was the right of the lord over the person and estate of the tenant, when the latter was under a certain age. When a tenant by knight's service died, and his heir was under age, the lord was entitled to the custody of the person and the lands of the heir, without any account, until the ward, if a male, should arrive at the age of twenty-one years, and, if a female, at eighteen. Wardship was also incident to a tenure in socage, but in this case, not the lord, but the nearest relation to whom the inheritance could not descend, was entitled to the custody of the person and estate of the heir till he attained the age of fourteen years; at which period the wardship ceased and the guardian was bound, to account. Wardship in copyhold estates partook of that in chivalry and that guardian like the latter, he was required lib. 7, c. 9; Grand Cout. c. 33; Reg. Maj

Bouviers 1856

Why are districts named wards??? I'd have a hunch that they are wards of the State, as are infants wards of chancery. If that is so then they are like children of the state, which would be why they pack a punch. Almost all wards start as parishes and then develop into villages, towns and cities or adults. The wards are under the jurisdiction of the Episcopal See, you can see the see in the below link....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parish_councils_in_England#/media/File:Uk_parishes.png

Ironically the Episcopal See is also blue....

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Re: Wards

Post by Phillpots on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:33 pm

Wonderful read. Nicely put together. Thanks Waffle

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Re: Wards

Post by Phillpots on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:49 pm

Excellent analysis. This is now a very educational post. Thanks

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Re: Wards

Post by Waffle on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:56 pm

Alcatraz comes to mind, they need no walls to retain us, just a pass to the ports......

Historically as a settlor in England you were not freely able to move from parish to parish, the parish you were settled was the county you belonged, in fact you had to get permission to enter another county and the Lord of the new county you entered would pay a fee to the prior for your purchase if you were profitable for them, if not or you were escaping you could be sent straight back to reap whatever punishments they deemed necessary.

You would also have a settlement certificate for that parish, it was a means of identifying who you belonged to. This was the predecessor to the birth Certificate, it was mostly paupers who held these certificates. Today a person is a pauper if they are required to request a certificate for burial purposes..... Who needs a certificate for burial purposes? anyone who is registered in an administrative division!
.

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Re: Wards

Post by Phillpots on Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:07 pm

Great info. I have learned so much. Thanks

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Re: Wards

Post by Waffle on Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:35 pm

Well, we have to keep busy...... Lots to learn of course cheers

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Re: Wards

Post by assassin on Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:18 am

To begin any investigation it is important to know the difference between a council and what they do, and a local authority and what they do; and what function each serves, and what powers they have as they vary frrom area to area and councils are only allowed to act under common law, and authorities under civil law.

There are two main types of authority which are the upper and lower tier, but an authority can only be formed by consent of the people; and they can delegate their authority in a private capacity under civil law to any outside functionary such as a council. Why is this confusing? because an authority can delegate an authority or function to a council bound only by common law and allow a council to act under both civil and common law, and it can give a council many more powers that it ever had. It is even more confusing as authority and council vary from area to area, and the delegation also varies from area to area.

Then we get the City of London which is a metropolitan borough and totally exempt from everything, and the metropolitan boroughs outside London.
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Re: Wards

Post by Waffle on Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:10 pm

Interesting input assassin I never thought to differentiate the council and local authority...

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Re: Wards

Post by Phillpots on Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:57 pm

Great input assassin. I took a look at my councils website and they seem to be the same. Is this what you mean?

As a local I suppose I could bypass the ward and go straight to the council with my questions and concerns. Is there any point in having wards?

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Re: Wards

Post by Ferry Man on Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:53 pm

Hi All.

My first post, I will be honest I don't intend on making too many, but this thread is possibly the most important thread on this site (civil debts aside).

Whenever you have a ward, by default there is deemed to be a Guardian of that Ward, well done that Man who saw the significance in all of this and created this topic.

Phillpots: 1974 was a year in which Unitiary Authorities were created, the legislation that created this will reveal some interesting findings, you will also do well to inspect a Valuation List (Rates) held at your Local Council Offices both pre 1974 and after, Rob Bollix has touched on this information but I am not sure he has articulated it very well.

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Re: Wards

Post by Ferry Man on Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:56 pm

Assassin:

Would you care to cite the authoritive source from where you make your distinction between councils, LA's and then Common and Civil Law ?
Ta

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Re: Wards

Post by iamani on Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:16 pm

Hi Ferry Man

i'm sure assassin will pass on his source if he can remember it.

Wasn't 1974 the year we joined Europe? Am i right in thinking most of Europe is under 'code' rather than common-law? If so, would it follow that when we joined they set up another 'authority' parallel to the council system that came under the purview of Brussels? That would explain council being under common-law and authorities being under 'code'.

Just an opinion.

Cheers!

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Re: Wards

Post by Ferry Man on Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:41 pm

Yes there may well be something in that iamani

I have a friend who is into reading Hansard, I will see if he can join some dots, and aren't there a lot of dots too.

But we must remember centralisation of power of hiding power via parallel systems of law is only possible if the presumptions such as Wardship etc are not dealt with, they could not have gained the stranglehold they have done in 1974 and later years unless they had sufficient control over their wards way back when ...

I know its going to offend some people here, but the sooner we face the reality of what we are and what those who subjugate us see us as, we will not make progress, I too once fell for the romantic notion of common law as held dear by so called freemen et al, the fact is in England we have been held as slaves ever since William landed in Sussex and despite brief periods of security and property rights for commoners like in the yeomanry period we have all been considered some ones else's property and this was done via the apparently noble act of looking after wards while simultaneously creating the same through violence and usurpation ... that is your common law as viewed by those who control all the lands and estates today.

Cheers, your asking good questions.

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Re: Wards

Post by assassin on Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:32 am

Actually Ferry Man you actually know them, it is the centralisation of power and parallel systems which hide themselves to give an impression of choice.

It varies from area to area, but generally the council is merely a tax collector in its basic form, it is the local authorities which centralise power and are allowed to delegate responsibilities to others, hence why they have the real power and the reason they can delegate duties to an-other. In many cases they delegate authorities to councils.

You need to read your law on councils as it clearly states a council is merely a council reprersenting the people of an area, and can only do so with the consent of the people of the area, and only under common law. Authorities can only operate under civil law and if they delegate a duty to a council, that council can work under both common law and civil systems, hence why we noe see so much of this, and why so many of our services are now contracted out as a council cannot contract them out, but an authority can.
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Re: Wards

Post by assassin on Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:03 am

@Phillpots wrote:Not voted myself for years now. Interesting about the description on the word ward though. I mean are they?

You also have to look at all the meanings of the word "ward" as they have changed significantly over the years.
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Re: Wards

Post by assassin on Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:17 am

Merriam Webster



Definition of ward

1
a : the action or process of guardingb : a body of guards

2
: the state of being under guard; especially : custody

3
a : the inner court of a castle or fortressb : a division (such as a cell or block) of a prisonc : a division in a hospital; especially : a large room in a hospital where a number of patients often requiring similar treatment are accommodated

4
a : a division of a city for representative, electoral, or administrative purposesb : a division of some English and Scottish counties corresponding to a hundredc : the Mormon local congregation having auxiliary organizations (such as Sunday schools and relief societies) and one or more quorums of each office of the Aaronic priesthood

5
: a projecting ridge of metal in a lock casing or keyhole permitting only the insertion of a key with a corresponding notch; also : a corresponding notch in a bit of a key

6
: a person or thing under guard, protection, or surveillance: such asa : a minor subject to wardshipb : a person who by reason of incapacity (such as minority or mental illness) is under the protection of a court either directly or through a guardian appointed by the court —called also ward of courtc : a person or body of persons under the protection or tutelage of a government

7
: a means of defense : protection
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Re: Wards

Post by Waffle on Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:05 pm

2. the state of being under guard especially custody......

6. A person under guard

isn't title to our person in the custody of the superintendent registrar under the births '53????

Now who would they be guarding our person from Laughing Laughing

If we don't laugh then we are all truly f****d, they may have custody of our person, but not our minds, that is something I won't give them.

Well said Ferry Man, our feudal service as property of the wards to the sovereign really still is in full force today. Did you know that something can not be a ward without property, but it doesn't matter how little property the ward has, it just needs something, anything in fact to be a ward, I wonder why title to person and title to property are treated as together, my understanding is that title to anything is property, evidence of ownership.... A Master in Knights Service as long as there is a title guarded in custody.....


Last edited by assassin on Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Language)

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Re: Wards

Post by Waffle on Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:15 pm


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Re: Wards

Post by Phillpots on Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:10 pm

I'm setting up a meeting with my ward councillor. Lots of questions for him to take back to executives in central headquarters and as a ward councillor he will need to express my concerns.

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