Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies
by Awoken2 Yesterday at 11:01 pm

» How to Grow Garlic
by Lopsum Yesterday at 10:56 pm

» British Gas to pay customers £1.1m compensation
by jss64 Yesterday at 7:55 pm

» Hi. Need help/advice
by assassin Yesterday at 7:03 pm

» hi all
by assassin Yesterday at 7:01 pm

» Company selling accounts to Debt collector--although not in debt!
by actinglikeabanker Yesterday at 6:39 pm

» Tid-bits, Nuggets and Pearls
by iamani Yesterday at 6:01 pm

» NOTTINGHAM CRIMINAL CARTEL WASTE BILLIONS SO THEY CAN INCREASE THE ILLEGAL AND UNLAWFUL COUNCIL TAX
by ceylon Yesterday at 5:40 pm

» Reality chat with peter howard and company
by actinglikeabanker Yesterday at 5:37 pm

» My Council Tax Experience
by actinglikeabanker Yesterday at 4:59 pm

» PRA Group
by MEMEGIRL Yesterday at 3:42 pm

» UK Column
by ceylon Yesterday at 3:11 pm

» The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims is made by the Master of the Rolls as Head of Civil Justice. The Protocol comes into force on 1 October 2017
by LionsShare Yesterday at 3:06 pm

» Sheriffs Office and Denial of access Notice
by Ausk Yesterday at 11:07 am

» HMRC SELL DEBTS ?
by MEMEGIRL Yesterday at 9:36 am

» Does anyone know how to get in touch with Tiggy?
by daveiron Yesterday at 9:07 am

» Cancer Act 1939
by assassin Yesterday at 1:58 am

» Liability Order in Respect of Council Tax....
by midnight Yesterday at 1:55 am

» Buddha Dharma - Buddhism
by actinglikeabanker Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:55 pm

» Creating Energy-Wind
by assassin Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:39 pm

» Posting in forum
by assassin Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:30 pm

» The Finance Curse - Professor confirms the Promissory Note in Loans
by ceylon Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:17 am

» Intense electrical storm
by Waffle Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:25 am

» Learn Sanskrit
by actinglikeabanker Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:11 am

» THE CENSUS, ARE YOU IN THEIR WAREHOUSE? BC, SECURITISATION
by Waffle Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:38 pm

» The difference between 'affirmation' and 'oath'
by Society of the Spectacle Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:40 pm

» Hello and Capquest
by daveiron Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:13 pm

» Latest Rich Planet vids
by fozbod Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:07 pm

» GOODF ebook
by cidereye Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:14 am

» Diaspora
by Solosmurf Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:45 am

» Court
by bigend Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:47 pm

» NOTTINGHAM CRIMINAL CARTEL PARKING CHARGES TO RISE TO £100 00 PER MONTH THEY DONT WANT YOU ON THE RO
by ceylon Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:59 pm

» sol excalibre with cookiemonster
by Lopsum Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:42 pm

» UK people apparently linking Birth cert trust account to paypal
by Svetlana Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:31 pm

» The Current Pharmaceuticals Scam
by badvoc Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:54 am

» Are you sure you are a police officer today?
by assassin Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:05 am

» DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY: UTILIZING YOUR TREASURY DIRECT ACCOUNTS
by Mia Media Mogul Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:03 am


A History of Rates

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

A History of Rates

Post by Ferry Man on Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:26 pm

Lets look at rates and let us look into what they are, who collects them and who should be liable to pay them:

It seems in respect the thread on Wards that we start our research from around the same time as Birth Certificates became the norm from their predecessor the settlement certificate and the relationship these had to the poor laws and other statutory acts this will take us to the General Rate Act.

I am throwing this out there and if any of you are interested in serious and proper study, I hope you will take this and run with it, it has helped me solve a lot and comprehend a lot, but I don't have the hours free to go through explaining it all - if the Mods would not mind keeping this as a dedicated thread pursuant the Title of the post, one would appreciate it.  

Accountability of Local Authorities in England and Wales, 1831-1935 ...

Excerpt from page 37: " An Act to provide for the better Distribution of the Charge for the Relief of the Poor in Unions" (29th June 1863)

Well you will have to wait seven days to get the links I am afraid, if I am still here ..who knows the morrow.


Ferry Man
Newb
Newb

Posts : 28
Join date : 2017-06-12

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by assassin on Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:59 am

I worked it backwards from today, and I totally agree that it is too important an issue to ignore, and it gives many answers to some important questions.

I went back to Roman times and punative taxes.
avatar
assassin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 503
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by honeyaisle on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:18 pm

Rate of Return - The amount of profit or loss generated by an investment, expressed as a percentage of the total sum invested.

Rate Card - A printed list of charges and details regarding advertising costs on television, radio, websites, newspapers, etc.

Ratify - To sanction formally. Validate an agreement with a vote or signature.

Rating Agency - A company which assesses and rates businesses on their credit-worthiness and/or their ability to repay debts.

Ratings Point - The measure of a size of an audience, i.e., one point equals one per cent of all households watching a television program or listening to a radio station at a particular time.

http://www.businessballs.com/business-dictionary.htm#R-definitions

Not commenting just sharing as someone may take offence.

ratable
adj. taxable according to value, such as an estate or property.
ratification
n. confirmation of an action which was not pre-approved and may n...
ratify
v. to confirm and adopt the act of another even though it was not...

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?letter=R

Again no comment just another share.

rated load — (*) The designed safe operating load for the equipment under prescribed
conditions.

rate of fire — (*) The number of rounds fired per weapon per minute.

rate of march — (*) The average number of miles or kilometers to be traveled in a given
period of time, including all ordered halts. It is expressed in miles or kilometers in the
hour. See also pace.

ratification — 1. The declaration by which a nation formally accepts, with our without
reservation, the content of a standardization agreement. 2. The process of approving an
unauthorized commitment by an official who has the authority to do so. See also
implementation; reservation; subscription; unauthorized commitment. (JP 4-10)

http://www.militaryterms.net/r

and finally

Church Rates. Tributes by which the expenses of the Church are to be defrayed. Compulsory Church Rates
were abolished by 31 & 32 Viet. c. 119.
Lewnes. A parish assessment ; a word now superseded by rates.

honeyaisle
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 60
Join date : 2017-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by Ferry Man on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:15 am

I am going to reboot this thread elsewhere, I just realised its in the latest news section, I also feel I should have been a bit clearer as to why Rates are connected to another or other forms of law being operated in Courts and used by Property Holders (we are not the 'recognised' property holders in this case).

Honey aisle thanks for the interest but I am not sure what your getting at with that post, going off course just a tad.

Pointer: use statutory definitions or supreme court cited definitions, you have no standing, right nor authority to define interpret or cite your own definitions that you think may be the ones that are relevant, I cannot emphasise that point enough.

The General Rate Act has its own definitions and that is all that we need, 99% of the populace are probably unable to read a statute correctly, and that is not because of some dark room of scriveners plotting to befuddle us all in their inns, it is simply that their are rules that have to be followed that are predicated on a good command of English grammar, syntax and sentence construction, these tools have been denied to the slumbering masses ... anyway.

Assassin: I think your reply was in response to another question on the wards thread about local authorities and law form, in any case by Authorative source, what I meant was a relevant law book, case law exposition or a statutory enactment.




Ferry Man
Newb
Newb

Posts : 28
Join date : 2017-06-12

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by honeyaisle on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:24 am

@Ferry Man wrote:
Honey aisle thanks for the interest but I am not sure what your getting at with that post, going off course just a tad.




On the contrary. The definitions book in use needs to be determined/stated/specified before any document can be read with understanding/comprehension. Spoken word can slip from definition to definition depending on the ears doing the hearing written words do exactly the same until the dictionary in use is defined.

honeyaisle
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 60
Join date : 2017-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by Ferry Man on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:37 am

Honeyaisle: I think you just proved my assertion correct, i am discussing statutes and you are discussing documents, really if you wish to argue the point on that, could you do it on your own thread, I know what I am going on about here and the Lords of the Supreme Court agree with me.

Ferry Man
Newb
Newb

Posts : 28
Join date : 2017-06-12

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by honeyaisle on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:44 am

@Ferry Man wrote:Honeyaisle: I think you just proved my assertion correct, i am discussing statutes and you are discussing documents, really if you wish to argue the point on that, could you do it on your own thread, I know what I am going on about here and the Lords of the Supreme Court agree with me.
Okey dokey.
Never mentioned you not knowing what you are on about or casted and aspersion in that direction.
Could you help this unfortunate member of the slumbering masses a title i gratefully wear with moving from this class to one where such things as statues can be read as they are supposed to be by supplying the things you allude to here?

it is simply that their are rules that have to be followed that are predicated on a good command of English grammar, syntax and sentence construction, these tools have been denied to the slumbering masses

honeyaisle
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 60
Join date : 2017-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by assassin on Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:12 pm

@Ferry Man wrote:I am going to reboot this thread elsewhere, I just realised its in the latest news section.

Assassin: I think your reply was in response to another question on the wards thread about local authorities and law form, in any case by Authorative source, what I meant was a relevant law book, case law exposition or a statutory enactment.




This was one of my points, and you did see it fortunately, everyone is arguing apples and pears. You argue with apples and they come back and argue with pears.
avatar
assassin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 503
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by iamani on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:23 pm

Hi all

All good stuff as per!

Honeyaisle - try David wynn miller and maybe jay gould on y.t.

Cheers!

iamani
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 226
Join date : 2017-05-01

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by honeyaisle on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:12 pm

@honeyaisle wrote:
@Ferry Man wrote:Honeyaisle: I think you just proved my assertion correct, i am discussing statutes and you are discussing documents, really if you wish to argue the point on that, could you do it on your own thread, I know what I am going on about here and the Lords of the Supreme Court agree with me.
Okey dokey.
Never mentioned you not knowing what you are on about or casted and aspersion in that direction.
Could you help this unfortunate member of the slumbering masses a title i gratefully wear with moving from this class to one where such things as statues can be read as they are supposed to be by supplying the things you allude to here?

it is simply that their are rules that have to be followed that are predicated on a good command of English grammar, syntax and sentence construction, these tools have been denied to the slumbering masses

As Ferry Man is wandering through again I felt this was worthy of a bump as he/she might have missed it earlier.

honeyaisle
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 60
Join date : 2017-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by assassin on Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:58 am

Honey, Oxford English dictionary is a good source of definitions of words and their interpretation and many such words are the foundation of law.
avatar
assassin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 503
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:25 am

Hey honeyaisle

You missed one..... ratings! Are they talking measures, or are they talking rank. As in a rather low rank in the sailing biz. As in shipping/being 'shipped' (and how close is that to 'chipped'?)As in maritime.

And has anyone noticed how interchangeable (at least anagogically) the words 'ward' and 'word' are?

Cheers!

iamani
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 226
Join date : 2017-05-01

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by honeyaisle on Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:01 am

iamani
Precisely.

assassin
My dear you are a tad off beat there, hope you don't find the colloquialism offensive this time, Ferry Man is not talking definitions he is talking grammar, syntax and sentence construction.

Having been through an education system where I was taught these three things, was tested and given paper to say I had passed the test why are statutes still beyond comprehension?
I have been denied the tools or taught the wrong ones. I am not asking for Ferry Man's research or any of his/her findings simply asking what tools he/she has used to gain the comprehension of grammar syntax and sentence construction that his/her education didn't deliver.

It strikes me as utterly pointless to send people reading a precise part of a statute on the other thread when they are not equipped to comprehend and yet that is precisely what he/she advocates.

honeyaisle
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 60
Join date : 2017-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by Ferry Man on Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:39 am

I decided not to resume this thread from the OP because of a number of things, primarily because I don't think it is being taken seriously and I don't have the time to give my resources where it is not effective.

Iamani - rates as in the rate of pecuniary liability they attach to an account created in your NAME, I know there are parallel realms at work but it is no more unusual than the obvious definition in this case.

Honeyaisle, I think your being awkward for the sake of a general statement I made.

Definitions and Grammar/sentence structure are essential rules of statutory interpretation, these rules can be found in a reputable legal dictionary or some of the commissioned guides on the subject, yes the majority of state educated including grammar school people do not have this level of skill, the Supreme Court Judges follow the rules, so why shouldn't we, if we are to be on the same page ?.

Not that this should stop you reading the statute as advised, was you going to read it anyway ? I think not.

Far easier to have a dig at me than do some work isn't it, no idea how many people are members on this site or how many read these posts, but no one has asked a question about the very thing I have hinting towards yet.... I find that extraordinary and proof my effort to engage study and research is misplaced here.

I accept Its a general Forum and there is no guarantee of anything, which is why I will only assist by PM from now on, it allows me to weed out time wasters and those who are not trustworthy or simply looking for a power tussle.

Ferry Man
Newb
Newb

Posts : 28
Join date : 2017-06-12

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by honeyaisle on Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:56 am

@Ferry Man wrote:

Honeyaisle, I think your being awkward for the sake of a general statement I made.

Definitions and Grammar/sentence structure are essential rules of statutory interpretation, these rules can be found in a reputable legal dictionary or some of the commissioned guides on the subject, yes the majority of state educated including grammar school people do not have this level of skill, the Supreme Court Judges follow the rules, so why shouldn't we, if we are to be on the same page ?.

Not that this should stop you reading the statute as advised, was you going to read it anyway ? I think not.

Far easier to have a dig at me than do some work isn't it, no idea how many people are members on this site or how many read these posts, but no one has asked a question about the very thing I have hinting towards yet.... I find that extraordinary and proof my effort to engage study and research is misplaced here.

I accept Its a general Forum and there is no guarantee of anything, which is why I will only assist by PM from now on, it allows me to weed out time wasters and those who are not trustworthy or simply looking for a power tussle.

Good grief get a grip. No-one is having a dig at you merely pointing out an inconsistency in what you said over two threads. I have read through the statue in question and cannot make head nor tail of it. Obviously you can so you have command of grammar syntax and sentence construction I do not.
Thank you for at last pointing in the direction of where to discover the vital tools. It is appreciated. Here is a starter


For those who are too lazy here it is the statute section Ferry Man is referring to.


legislation.gov.uk
Local Government Finance Act 1992
8-9 minutes
Chargeable dwellingsS
72 Dwellings chargeable to council tax.S

(1)Council tax shall be payable in respect of any dwelling which is not an exempt dwelling.

(2)In this Part, “dwelling”—

(a)means any lands and heritages—

(i)which consist of one or more dwelling houses with any garden, yard, garage, outhouse or pertinent belonging to and occupied with such dwelling house or dwelling houses; and

(ii)which would, but for the provisions of section 73(1) below, be entered separately in the valuation roll;

(b)includes—

(i)the residential part of part residential subjects; and

(ii)that part of any premises which has, in terms of section 45 of the 1980 Act, been apportioned, as at 1st April 1989, as a dwelling house; and

(c)does not include a caravan which is not a person’s sole or main residence.

(3)For the purposes of subsection (2) above “caravan” has the same meaning as it has in Part I of the M1Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.

(4)The Secretary of State may vary the definition of dwelling in subsection (2) above by including or excluding such lands and heritages or parts thereof or such class or classes of lands and heritages or parts thereof as may be prescribed.

(5)The Secretary of State may by order provide that in such cases as may be prescribed by or determined under the order—

(a)anything which would (apart from the order) be one dwelling shall be treated as two or more dwellings; and

(b)anything which would (apart from the order) be two or more dwellings shall be treated as one dwelling.

(6)In this Part—

“chargeable dwelling” means any dwelling in respect of which council tax is payable;

“exempt dwelling” means any dwelling of a class prescribed by an order made by the Secretary of State.

(7)For the purposes of subsection (6) above, a class of dwelling may be prescribed by reference to—

(a)the physical characteristics of dwellings;

(b)the fact that dwellings are unoccupied or are occupied for prescribed purposes or are occupied or owned by persons of prescribed descriptions; or

(c)such other factors as the Secretary of State thinks fit.

(8)Schedule 5 to this Act shall have effect in relation to part residential subjects.

Annotations: Help about Annotation
Close

Annotations are used to give authority for changes and other effects on the legislation you are viewing and to convey editorial information. They appear at the foot of the relevant provision or under the associated heading. Annotations are categorised by annotation type, such as F-notes for textual amendments and I-notes for commencement information (a full list can be found in the Editorial Practice Guide). Each annotation is identified by a sequential reference number. For F-notes, M-notes and X-notes, the number also appears in bold superscript at the relevant location in the text. All annotations contain links to the affecting legislation.

Modifications etc. (not altering text)

Marginal Citations
73 Alterations to valuation roll.S

(1)Subject to subsection (7) below, dwellings shall not be entered in the valuation roll in respect of the financial year 1993-94 or any subsequent financial year.

(2)Dwellings in respect of which there is an entry in the valuation roll immediately before 1st April 1993 shall be deleted from the roll with effect from that date.

(3)Lands and heritages—

(a)in respect of which there is, by reason of the fact that they constitute domestic subjects within the meaning of section 2(3) of the M2Abolition of Domestic Rates Etc. (Scotland) Act 1987 (“the 1987 Act”), no entry on the roll immediately before 1st April 1993; and

(b)which are not dwellings within the meaning of section 72(2) above,

shall be entered on the valuation roll with effect from that date.

(4)Where, after 1st April 1993, any lands and heritages (including a caravan which constitutes a person’s sole or main residence) or any parts of lands and heritages cease to be a dwelling, they shall be entered in the valuation roll with effect from the date on which they so cease.

(5)Where after 1st April 1993, by virtue of regulations made under section 72(4) above, any lands and heritages or any parts of lands and heritages—

(a)cease to be dwellings, they shall be entered in the valuation roll;

(b)become dwellings, any entry in the valuation roll in respect of such lands and heritages shall be deleted,

with effect from such date as may be prescribed by such regulations.

(6)Where a part of any lands and heritages falls within a class prescribed under section 72(4) above—

(a)the part so affected and the remainder shall be treated for the purposes of the Valuation Acts as separate lands and heritages, and

(b)the part of those lands and heritages which does not constitute a dwelling shall be entered in the valuation roll accordingly.

(7)Nothing in this section affects the entering in the valuation roll of part residential subjects.

Annotations: Help about Annotation
Close

Annotations are used to give authority for changes and other effects on the legislation you are viewing and to convey editorial information. They appear at the foot of the relevant provision or under the associated heading. Annotations are categorised by annotation type, such as F-notes for textual amendments and I-notes for commencement information (a full list can be found in the Editorial Practice Guide). Each annotation is identified by a sequential reference number. For F-notes, M-notes and X-notes, the number also appears in bold superscript at the relevant location in the text. All annotations contain links to the affecting legislation.

Marginal Citations
74 Different amounts for dwellings in different valuation bands.S

(1)The amounts of F1. . . council tax payable in respect of dwellings situated in any local authority’s area and listed in different valuation bands shall be in the proportion—

6: 7: 8: 9: 11: 13: 15: 18

where 6 is for dwellings listed in valuation band A, 7 is for dwellings listed in valuation band B, and so on.

(2)The valuation bands for dwellings are set out in the following Table—
Range of values Valuation band
Values not exceeding £27,000 A
Values exceeding £27,000 but not exceeding £35,000 B
Values exceeding £35,000 but not exceeding £45,000 C
Values exceeding £45,000 but not exceeding £58,000 D
Values exceeding £58,000 but not exceeding £80,000 E
Values exceeding £80,000 but not exceeding £106,000 F
Values exceeding £106,000 but not exceeding £212,000 G
Values exceeding £212,000 H

(3)The Secretary of State may by order, as regards financial years beginning on or after such date as is specified in the order—

(a)substitute another proportion for that which is for the time being effective for the purposes of subsection (1) above;

(b)substitute other valuation bands for those which are for the time being effective for the purposes of subsection (2) above.

(4)No order under subsection (3) above shall be made unless a draft of the order has been laid before and approved by resolution of the House of Commons.

(5)Any reference in this Part to dwellings listed in a particular valuation band shall be construed as a reference to dwellings to which that valuation band is shown as applicable in the valuation list.

Annotations: Help about Annotation
Close

Annotations are used to give authority for changes and other effects on the legislation you are viewing and to convey editorial information. They appear at the foot of the relevant provision or under the associated heading. Annotations are categorised by annotation type, such as F-notes for textual amendments and I-notes for commencement information (a full list can be found in the Editorial Practice Guide). Each annotation is identified by a sequential reference number. For F-notes, M-notes and X-notes, the number also appears in bold superscript at the relevant location in the text. All annotations contain links to the affecting legislation.

Amendments (Textual)

The only thing I know through personal experience about council tax is the billing authority needs to be in possession of a freely given legal name provided to it backed by signature when it sends a written request to its address. If it has no legal name it has nothing to lay its charge upon.

And for those keen to acquire Ferry Mans interpretation skills here's a starter. https://www.lawteacher.net/lecture-notes/english-legal-system/statutory-interpretation.php


Last edited by honeyaisle on Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Adding a couple of bits.)

honeyaisle
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 60
Join date : 2017-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by assassin on Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:12 pm

Honey, there is nothing off beat as the OED is cited as source for much of our legislation and gives people the chance to work backwards and note the changes in words and how they applied, and how they were used as the foundation of law.
avatar
assassin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 503
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:14 pm

Hi all

It looks like you might be approaching the same subject from different angles. Kudos to you both for maintaining dignity whilst disagreeing. i do hope you'll be able to shake hands afterwards though, the site would be the poorer for the loss of either of you.

Ferry Man - i appreciate your chosen method of imparting information and i'm sure i'm not alone. It seems semi-socratic and encourages learning. If no-one has asked the right question yet, just keep hinting - someone will 'get it' at some point. Remember, as already pointed out everyone has different methods/understandings and different points of focus. But please don't let frustration stop you posting.

Honeyaisle - Thanks for putting that section up. Unfortunately i'm lazy (and not particularly focused on this subject) so who knows when i might have got round to it. i suspect the more money/control that a statute stands for, the more convoluted they make the wording. i got a headache as soon as i started reading it (and as i say, it's not something that 'grabs' me at the moment) so i just scanned most of it.

It does strike me though that a possible approach would be to 'remove' the value of the property (by placing it in trust?). That's just a leap of faith into a flight of fancy from a cursory glance - speculation. i'm sure there's plenty more encoded into it.

And thanks for that last link - i enjoy anything 'word'.

Just out of interest, do either of you give credence to the theory that statutes and such constitute 'spells'?

Cheers!

iamani
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 226
Join date : 2017-05-01

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by Ferry Man on Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:36 pm

Its the meaning of dwelling that should you be diligent, will open up the next door for you.

I am not sure if that part has been revised, but I notice a word change they have added, where a word of interest is changed while maintaining the same meaning, interesting that. You will at some point be putting the Secretary of State on notice when you are ready.

Yes these Statutes are not made easy for you to read, that is for sure, if you felt dizzy after just skimming over, imagine how I felt studying it hours at a time for best part of two months every day.... because sometimes the best place to hide something is in a word and dangle it in plain sight.

It is not possible to unravel this without spending the time to unlock the different connections, that is why I threw these parts out in a small dose, iamani you are correct in it being a little socratic... yes it has to be that way

This is the reason I wont engage with those who are not bothered to do their bit, like many of you I have a job, dependants, obligations to meet and liabilities to discharge, I am not mortgage free and lucky to have lots of free time to do all this, so I trust you understand why I don't wish to p**s about wasting my time, I am ending my forum comments there, those of you with the right attitude will get this eventually if you keep at it, I have done my bit, anything further is by private agreement.


Last edited by assassin on Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Language)

Ferry Man
Newb
Newb

Posts : 28
Join date : 2017-06-12

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:05 pm

Hi Ferry Man

Thanks for the clues - your heart and attention are both clearly where they should be. Maybe in the future you will reconsider your decision to cease posting, i certainly hope so.

Good luck.

Cheers!

iamani
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 226
Join date : 2017-05-01

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by honeyaisle on Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:45 pm

@assassin wrote:Honey, there is nothing off beat as the OED is cited as source for much of our legislation and gives people the chance to work backwards and note the changes in words and how they applied, and how they were used as the foundation of law.
Okey dokey darling. Makes you wonder why Law Dictionaries with their own definitions of the words found in Oxford English Dictionary exist though.


I am not sure if that part has been revised, but I notice a word change they have added, where a word of interest is changed while maintaining the same meaning, interesting that. [/quote]

Yes the meaning of dwelling for the purposes of the Act or this section of the Act. I am sure this was investigated by folk on the old forum a few times with no specific outcome appearing out of the discussions. By all means correct me if I am wrong.

[quote]Amendment of the Local Government Finance Act 1992 (meaning of dwelling)

Surely there is someone on here who has a degree in the relevant branch of English who can shortcut the learning process by explaining why these things are written the way they are thus empowering more folks to pick up the research baton and instead of seeing legalese gobbledygook start comprehending them as judges do.


honeyaisle
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 60
Join date : 2017-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by honeyaisle on Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:12 pm

@iamani wrote:
Just out of interest, do either of you give credence to the theory that statutes and such constitute 'spells'?

Cheers!

iamani
Apologies I missed your question on first flush.
For what it's worth here is my interpretation of words dictionaries Acts and suchlike.

Think plays for that is what I feel everything here, wherever here is, is all about. In a play there has to be a script and actors. A script is a set of words actors speak to perform/play a role through a mask. An actor is a mask made manifest through an act. A Parliament is a meeting of scriptwriters could even be a guild of scriptwriters. This group produce scripts aka Parliaments which have chapters in them called Acts just the same way a scriptwriter or playwright puts chapters called Acts in their work.
The basis of both is words. Spoken words are simply sound nothing more nothing less. Furthermore they are sound made by a singular type of being and it comes in many flavours which are alien to each other until a speaker of sound system A comes to comprehend the sounds made by a speaker of sound system B. Unless speaker of B can also comprehend sound system A then all B hears when A is speaking system A is sound with no meaning.
A long winded way of saying there are no notifications in sounds of a different language until the listener is taught what notifications apply.

Words are sounds made definite as in defined made solid in a way by the writing out of a definition and passing it around in sound and written form amongst a group of people who notice the same sounds and notice the same form of writing the use of the same alphabet and numbers to produce the written work and crucially to make the connections required for the Act to take place. The Act being to hear a sound and simultaneously hear the taken for granted definition thus making the sound defined as the written meaning which are contained within the spell books called dictionaries.
Another long winded way of saying yes dictionaries are spell books. I was taught to spell at home and then at school and getting the correct spelling was sold to the young me as being of great importance. As was grammar syntax and sentence construction. The three latter importances only live on paper.
That to me is the key which shows the play acting to be the exact same thing as the parliamentary Acting.

Acts require a being to adopt manifest roles. I cannot recall an actor who played the same single role in a play/film/show over their career. They all play many different roles. When it comes to playing the roles required by Acts in the Parliamentary sense the manifest roles are just as manifest if not more so. Read the one Ferry Man suggests reading and in there there are multiple different roles needed to be played by whoever chooses to Act out the play. Liable Person Tenant Owner are but three to mention. All playable by the same being simply taking the different role at different times. No Actor can play two roles at the same time even when they wear masks. They have to take one off or put another over the one they are wearing to play the role attached to the mask by the Act in the script. One actor can then play many roles by virtue of being able to speak through the mask to create the illusion of being something different to what was sounded before and what is sounded after.
To mask is to person. Multiple persons are people. Peoples are collections of multiple masks. To see this simply look into a book of spells and read the defined outline of what the written words mean.

honeyaisle
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 60
Join date : 2017-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:40 pm

Hi honeyaisle

Excellent and thorough! i think we're playing in the same playground. i completely agree about the whole 'act' scenario, and i believe the same team who wrote 'Shakespeare's' stuff wrote legislation.

So we have three 'acts' to a 'play' - status, adjudication and judgement. Did you know there is a fourth? Check out the first four lines of CQV 1666 Act. Now THAT is a 'spell' if ever i saw one! And a good example of multi-mask wearing.....

Cheers!

iamani
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 226
Join date : 2017-05-01

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by honeyaisle on Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:16 pm

In 1665 Britain was infected with the deadly plague –
In 1666 a great fire then did rage –
But while London was burning down, yes let me repeat that; WHILE LONDON WAS BURNING DOWN –
the parliment of the day decided to hold a special sessions, where they all sat down –
for the right time had come for them to now set in motion –
there would never be a better chance, time, opportunity, amongst all that commotion –
and what they did truly amazed me, you won’t believe what they did you see…

They pasted through the “Cestui Que Vie Act” of 1666 –
which today STILL EXISTS –
so please, have no doubt, for what this Act is all about –
is because of the great plague and fire, now hear me: THET DIDN’T KNOW WHO WAS ALIVE OR DEAD – Truly.
So they passed it through first in Latin –
so the commoners couldn’t read it –
so they knew not what was happening; then they decided to print it in French… as if that’s going to make any sense?!

For the only ones who could read it were the well off you see –
who had the right bloodline or ancestry –
so, believe you me, until you tell them you are actually ALIVE, we are all DEAD!!!
Go let your brain cells now figure that out; inside your unique head.

From here http://www.lawfulrebellion.org/2012/09/22/legally-dead-island-cestui-que-vie-act-1666/

honeyaisle
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 60
Join date : 2017-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by iamani on Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:25 am

Hi honeyaisle

Somebody put some thought into that verse! i enjoyed the comments too, thanks.

Cheers!

iamani
Not so newb
Not so newb

Posts : 226
Join date : 2017-05-01

Back to top Go down

Re: A History of Rates

Post by assassin on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:15 pm

Yes you are wrong and for the same reasons as the other site never formed a conclusion, and it is because only the original author can define words and there meanings and the context in which they were/are used as a pure and true meaning.

You have admitted that you have A level English and ought to know to know that the meaning of a word is partially defined by the context, and that context is only a series of clues to give the true meaning of a word, and this uses a syntax to lay out the language to give a portrayal; so at best you are interpreting and defining clues and guessing what the original author means and are always wrong, but why? In law everything is based upon first hand knowledge and by using the language by guessing you can never truly define a word and its meaning as it is written for a corporate sole to be used by a human soul to interprete and translate back to the corporate sole, so it is designed that way so you have to have a true definition from an authority.

This is why people should revert back to the OED as it defines words and their meanings and was used as the basis for all laws, it goes back in time and defines those words at that time, it also gives the variants of those words and how they have evolved and had their meanings changed or altered over time to give a wider range of; or different meanings as language changes.

Law dictionaries obfuscate and create more confusion and by their very nature are designed to do so, they only ever give a judged definition of a specific word under a specific set of circumstances (context) and at a specific time. They also work to give legalese meanings to a word to create even more confusion to force people to a court (authority) who can make these meanings or change them under the corporate sole as they only ever act on the corporate while you are flailing around under common misconception.

Judges make rulings based on evidence taken from first hand knowledge and give their judgement which is little more than them defining a specific word under a differing set of curcumstances and using a differing syntax, and judgement means little more than interpreting.
avatar
assassin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 503
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum