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24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by handle on Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:26 am

http://www.ecosafene.com/EN/firetesting/building/549.html
BS 476-5:Fire tests in building materials Part 5: method of test for ignitability

BS 476-5 Fire Test to Building Material – Standard

BS 476-5:Fire tests in building materials Part 5: method of test for ignitability

BS 476-5 Fire Test to Building Material –Require

None of the specimen flames for more than 10s after removal of the test flame, and Burning of any specimen does not extend to an edge (from the bottom edge 75mm) during the application of the test flame or within the 10s period its removal.

BS 476-5 Fire Test to Building Material – Relative Standard

- BS 476: Fire tests on building materials and structures
- BS 476-7:Fire Tests on Building Materials and Structures Part 7: Method of Test to Determine the Classification of the Surface Spread of Flame of Products
- EN 13501-1: Fire classification of construction products and building elements- Part1: Classification using data from reaction to fire tests
- AS 1530:Methods for fire tests on building materials,components and structures
- AS/NZS 1530.1:Methods for fire tests on building materials,components and structures Combustibility test for materials
- AS/NZS 1530.2:Methods for fire tests on building materials,Components and structures - Test for flammability of materials
- GB 8624: Classification for burning behavior of building materials and products


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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by handle on Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:30 am

Apologies for the tech stuff, but all the interviews about what people did or did not do does not explain why the building caught on fire.

The "investigation" appears to be "leading" down an alleyway. people get mugged in alleyways.

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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by handle on Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:18 pm




This is an Infra Red clip - the two on the second floor from top at 3:14:51 have black torsos with white arms and head.

but the chap sitting on the window ledge 7 floors from top is all white AT 3:03:88.

White means hot, black means cool.

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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by assassin on Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:04 pm

This wouldn't be applicable in this instance for two reasons, the cladding is simply that, cladding; it has no structural element other than to support its own weight with contingencies for the tested conditions, the structure they were hung onto were a structural compent in their own right with sufficient contiengcy to add the weight of any cladding, irrespective of type.


Last edited by assassin on Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by handle on Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:50 pm

these guys are sick

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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by handle on Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:06 pm

The path of the fire has created a strange symbol on the side of the tower, which nobody seems to have mentioned or explained as to how the fire goes up and then down. Surely it didnt start in two places and met at the top?


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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by assassin on Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:18 am

It would have appeared to have two seats of fire and a track to run to the top, which is very unusual, most fires beginand run otwards and upwards in a Y formation unless a track has been created for it.
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by handle on Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:53 am

agreed. looks like 2 seats of fire. Does anyone know if the reports given to us so far reflect this?

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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Awoken2 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:03 pm

Here is an excerpt from Olu Talabi's witness statement saying he informed the council of his permanent residency in 2015.

4. I went to the University of East London where I studied Media and Creative Industries. I
am now, as I was before, a logistics manager in the construction industry. I have been
with my girlfriend, Rosemary, since we were 16, so since 2002. I helped her move in to
Grenfell Tower about 5 or so years ago when she first arrived there. In the intervening
period when I was not permanently living at Rosemary's flat in Grenfell Tower, I stayed
over there regularly to see my daughter and to spend time with my family. I moved in
permanently in around 2015, and I informed Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea
('RBKC', 'the Council') that I was living there permanently shortly after.

The thing is, on the official residents list provided by the council on the night of the fire flat 113 only had 2 occupants. Unfortunately I am unable to post a screenshot of the residents list as proof  due to me not having the available user storage. The list can be seen in the evidence section of the Grenfell Inquiry website.>>>>>>

https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/evidence/occupant-list-kctmo-lalo-14-june-2018


Last edited by Awoken2 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Awoken2 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:00 pm

@handle wrote:The path of the fire has created a strange symbol on the side of the tower, which nobody seems to have mentioned or explained as to how the fire goes up and then down. Surely it didnt start in two places and met at the top?


This could be something or nothing but check the green laser light at 12 mins of this video.

https://youtu.be/sDr61j4KydE

As far as the fire spread is concerned Professor Luke Bisby has done a thorough and in depth analysis of this.
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by handle on Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:09 am

Seen. Interesting. Also in that same video around 9:40 someones voice is saying theres no alarm. also the videos of people coming down the stairs no alarm can be heard.

Is there any footage of the fire brigade going in after 1:12am?

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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Lopsum on Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:23 pm

Professor Torero gave expert evidence . He has some credentials, was involved with 911 .
didnt mention the badly fitted windows and doors that allowed the smoke to penetrate the whole building from one side to the other as can be seen.
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Awoken2 on Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:38 pm

@handle wrote:Seen. Interesting. Also in that same video around 9:40 someones voice is saying theres no alarm. also the videos of people coming down the stairs no alarm can be heard.

Is there any footage of the fire brigade going in after 1:12am?

The communal fire alarms were disconnected a few weeks prior the the "renovations" and not reconnected afterwards ....more like preparations if you ask me. All you could hear throughout the morning were individual flat smoke alarms.




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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Awoken2 on Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:25 am

@Lopsum wrote:Professor Torero gave expert evidence . He has some credentials, was involved with 911 .
didnt mention the badly fitted windows and doors that allowed the smoke to penetrate the whole building from one side to the other as can be seen.

I've just been listening to it. For a fleeting second I suspected it was Jeff Goldblum.

Anyway, just one of the incredible admissions made so far by Professor Torero is that the cavity barriers which sole purpose was to protect the cavities from fire spread were in fact made from a combustible material thus making the cavities a good place for fire spread....well fancy that!
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by assassin on Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:58 am

Standard construction protocols are as follows:

If any fire alarm system has to be deactivated it should not be the entire structure, it should only be in the working area.

It should only be disconnected for the duration of the working day and reactivated after the days work is completed, including any hot works permit limitations, and deactivated the following day before works begin.
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Lopsum on Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:15 am

@Lopsum wrote:Professor Torero gave expert evidence . He has some credentials, was involved with 911 .
didnt mention the badly fitted windows and doors that allowed the smoke to penetrate the whole building from one side to the other as can be seen.

he does mention that the air gaps were not significant to fire spread but i dont think he touched on the smoke spread , which killed more than the flames.


edit ok he does mention this in part 2 Arrow
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Awoken2 on Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:21 pm

This article is not unrelated to this thread. Listen to the video where Carl opens up the company Crisis Cast, the employees reaction when she discovers she is not talking to a potential client. Priceless journalism.

http://enchantedlifepath.com/2018/11/22/call-to-crisiscast-com-can-i-have-500-crisis-actors/

I hope to be doing some work with Carl in relation to Grenfell.
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by handle on Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:20 am

Good Find mr sleuth

Wranglers!!
Casualties Union - fake wounds etc

How does this get past Fake News laws?


Home Office Security and Policing Event 2016
In partnership with CrisisCast
http://crisiscast.com/events/

Home Office Security and Policing Event 2016
In partnership with CrisisCast

Interesting - CRISISCAST LTD
Has no profits, no assets only has 2 employees but "wrangles" over 500 people PER crisis

interesting set of accounts

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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Awoken2 on Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:20 pm

The 72 people who perished in that fire never stood a chance. The majority of them called 999 for help from the fire service but the fire service couldn't help. What made the situation much worse was the fact that all the call operators who answered calls from trapped residents that night were all rigidly working to a policy which could only put more lives at risk in such a catastrophic fire.

Some of the people who died made numerous calls and each time the advice given was the same despite the fire being totally out of control from the outset. Even residents who called saying flames were affecting their flats were given the same advice as everybody else, stay put.

The fact that no attending Fire Officer who witnessed first hand the devastating speed in which this fire spread could make the call to get everybody out of the building really does make you question if they were aware of their primary objective which was to save life. That call was made by Jo Smith in the control room at 2.45am.

When you listen to this evidence by one of those Call Operators it really does highlight how completely ineffective their service was in saving any life at all.

https://youtu.be/i5PsRPpL7iM

When you take into account it took the initial IC 30 minutes to realise there were people in the building with numerous other factors it makes the official narrative highly questionable.
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Awoken2 on Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:36 pm

Watch for yourselves. The fire was allowed to burn for a full 13 minutes on the exterior BEFORE water was applied. The reason given was because they didn't want to endanger the fire fighters tackling the blaze inside the flat. But by this time the fire had took hold of the cladding and now every person inside that building was in grave grave danger.

https://youtu.be/kSNaRFp9mE0
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by handle on Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:31 am

According to
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/uk/london/historic?month=6&year=2017

It was a clear night and the wind was SSW at 2.486 mph between 0:00 and 6:00 on 14th June 2017 (Humidity 86% ; 1019 mbar ; temp 15c)

According to professor bisby the fire started on East face of tower.

So the wind did not fan the flames. Mbar was low so indicates rain not imminent, but humidity was high which limits fire spread.

The only variable I can think of is how wind circulates round a tower block, Eddies and the venturi effect of channelling through the presence of surrouding towers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33426889
However, in 4 corner tower blocks a wind causes a downdraught effect.

So, downdraught, wind on opposite side of building (ie not fanning flames) all point to making a slow fire spread. , ie But the fire spread was very fast over the entire side of the block

These blocks were known
The Ramsden Estate
By John Pateman
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=111PAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=how+does+fire+go+up+a+tower+block&source=bl&ots=VoFUdGVlP9&sig=bFGISVerzUQrLqzGDUdZCmv0bw4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiP1dfKwfHeAhVlJcAKHVGoACI4ZBDoATAGegQIABAB#v=onepage&q=how%20does%20fire%20go%20up%20a%20tower%20block&f=false

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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Lopsum on Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:02 am

the drought plays less roll when the material is sufficiently combustible , as one expert said it was like a fuse burning round the outside.
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Awoken2 on Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:32 am

At last, some journalistic curiosity over this event. Although everything covered in this has been covered already in this thread it does highlight how ineffective the LFB were on  the night.

I'm thinking of contacting the production team to see if they are interested in some additional information about their rival tv stations dubious media coverage of this story.

Watch the LFB get totally exposed here... They are rigidly sticking to the defense that they were bound by policies therefore common sense was abandoned.

Grenfell: Did the Fire Brigade Fail? https://g.co/kgs/K2kdzt
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

Post by Awoken2 on Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:35 am

It's a shame more people didn't conduct due diligence when this event happened. Instead everybody sat back and done nothing. The press were allowed to lie to the public with impunity.

Despite the fact that those lies were proved to be lies, evidence gathered and put forward for your scrutiny the apathy continued.

Despite the fact that the use of crisis actors were utilised for the reporting of this event by the BBC again nobody spoke out.

This event was a golden opportunity to expose the press and the Goverment for what they actually are, but nobody wanted
to see the real truth. They prefer the comfort.of being lied to. It's much easier to sit back and be lied to than walk forward and search for truth.

The next part of the cover up is now under way. There is no point in getting angry about this latest chapter. We are now simply being treated with the contempt we deserve for our ignorance.

If you see a crime unfold then say nothing you are as culpable as the perpetrators themselves. Taking this into account this next "story" is what we deserve. No.point in getting angry about it now.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47478091
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Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

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