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Moon phases


24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

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Post by daveiron Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:42 pm

When does the next stage of the inquiry start ?
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24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies - Page 20 Empty Chairmans statement

Post by daveiron Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:53 am



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24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies - Page 20 Empty See above video

Post by daveiron Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:31 pm

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Post by assassin Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:20 am

Basically its a fob off and nothing more.

Firemen not trained to identify fire in the external cavity? what, there is no external cavity as this type of insulated rainscreen cladding (SIPS panels) are bolted directly to the building structure and there are no cavities, SIPS panels comprise an inner face and an outer face which have an insulation foam injected between them and bond the inner to outer layers.

Why couldn't the fire brigade spot a fire in the cladding? you don't need training as the thick acrid black smoke and flames give it away, even to a potential idiot.

Cladding didn't comply with fire regulations? interesting as we have to look at the parties involved:

Landlord/council as they are ultimately responsible as the client.

Studio 3 as the architects.

Wrighton as the main contractor.

Harley as the sub contractor.

CEP Cellotex as the insulation manufacturer.

Ultimately the client becomes vicariously liable for several reasons, the client is the council who have the planning department and the planning department are ultimately responsible for the schedule of works and the schedule of materials, and for checking the compliance of every single component.
SIPS panels, by there very nature, act differently and they state that every individual component was tested, fine, but the whole panel in finished form must also be tested for EU approval and it wasn't, no excuse for that failure, but why? because with any metal outer facing heat is conducted directly to the insulation core and it melts and becomes volatile once melted. Three main criteria apply, the structure type/height, the structures use, and the fire resistance times for that application.
In short the cladding hadn't been tested as a complete unit and was illegal for any building, we are expected to believe that the architects Harley didn't know this, utter bollo*ks, that Wrighton the main contractor didn't know this, more bollo*ks, and Harley as an experienced and qualified cladding installer didn't know this, more bollo*ks, and thay the subbies they employed didn't know this, actually many raised concerns and were ignored.

CEP make Cellotex and as a manufacturer they would have to have full working drawings to produce this cladding and its sections as they are individually made to customer specifications, Studio 3 would have to produce the working drawings and would have submitted them to CEP and Wrighton to cost the project, and they would have to submit full working drawings detailing the on site attachment methods and the bonding arrangements to join the panels. This means everyone would know the height of the building exceeded 18 metres and it was a residential building and not a commercial or industrial building.

I noted that building control never visited site as they relied upon the clerk of works to give feedback, total bullsh*t as having been on many sites, I have never known building control never visiting site as they have set visiting times to check every phase of the works, and they can visit site at anytime and always do.

It is clear to me as someone who works for a company installing cladding that all parties were negliegent in failing to spot such fundamental flaws, due diligence has never been undertaken by anyone, which is illegal, and there is a total failure and a total cover up of this failure of so many people in so many companies and departments which is impossible.
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Post by daveiron Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:36 am

I watched it live yesterday,as expected the blame game went into top gear.
If it were not such a tragic event ,it would quite amusing .
Just one point assassin . From what I recall there was a cavity between the
panels and the building.
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Post by assassin Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:52 am

Remember part of our company activities are roofing and cladding and we never use Cellotex or their subsidiary companies products as they are con artists and very liberal with the truth, but experts at masking it and spinning it to present a totally different picture of their products capabilities.

As a minimum they would be 30 minute fire resistant to meet the most basic standards.
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Post by Lopsum Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:01 pm

I missed this https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/grenfell-fraudster-is-put-behind-bars/
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Post by daveiron Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:43 pm

Below is what I find very worrying and serves as a good reminder regarding
mobile phones. Personally I only use smart phones for the camera & and when
not being used for that purpose they are placed in a pouch which forms a
Faraday cage.


Mobile phone evidence also showed that in the months before the fire, Thompson’s phone did not register overnight in the vicinity of Grenfell Tower, and instead showed that he frequented north London.
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Post by Society of the Spectacle Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:40 pm

Lopsum wrote:I missed this https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/grenfell-fraudster-is-put-behind-bars/

That poor sod will get more for conning 95 thousand than the rest will get for murder.
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Post by assassin Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:53 am

Standard protocols Awoken, play it out as long as possible, the public hysteria will die down, they play for more time and find a scapegoat, they pay the scapegoat off and he/she accepts responsibility and someone is found guilty of a very minor offence and its reported vaguely on the media.
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Post by daveiron Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:43 am

For those following this ,the hearings have resumed today.
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Post by daveiron Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:47 pm

Well what a surprise, A member of the team has tested positive. Presumably
with a test that cannot test for a virus,a virus that has not even been proved
to exist.
However the inquiry will now resume 7th January . So not only promoting the BS
but giving themselves a nice long xmas break,and we all know how the chairman
likes his breaks.
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Post by assassin Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:44 am

daveiron wrote:I watched it live yesterday,as expected the blame game went into top gear.
If it were not such a tragic event ,it would quite amusing .
Just one point assassin . From what I recall there was a cavity between the
panels and the building.  

There was no cavity Dave, this type of cladding bolts directly to the building structure and the only cavities would be for legitimate openings such as boiler flues for example, if there was any cavity it would where a SIPS panel cannot be bolted directly to a structure due to it being clad with materials such as pebbledash ir similar no flat surfaces.

In such instances they should bond the panel and bolt it, once positioned it would be injected with a foam and the reaction with the bonding agent forms a foam which fills the gaps and any surplus is trimmed off; and for flues there should be an approved foan filling the void around the flue pipe.
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Post by flyingfish Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:19 am

I believe there was a space between the insulation and the outer weatherproof surface, some descriptions have referred this as a "ventilation cavity".

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Post by daveiron Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:49 am

From what I gather the surface was cast with a 'saw thooth finish , cavity barriers
were installed to stop the chimney effect ,but it has been found that some were
missing.
But most telling is how the figures for the fire test results were manipulated both
by cellotex and kingspan ,both were clearly aware of the hazards of useing this
material.
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Post by assassin Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:11 am

flyingfish wrote:I believe there was a space between the insulation and the outer weatherproof surface, some descriptions have referred this as a "ventilation cavity".

Correct as they incorrectly fitted the cladding and artistic licence of the media is portraying this cavity as legitimate when it isn't so its pure BULL.
We do fit cladding and we do know the rules along with having all the design specs and none of them for this include having a cavity as it simply becomes a huge rocket stove when ignited.
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Post by daveiron Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:46 am

Just to add further as I have been watching this inquiry most days and from
my comprehension is that in 2005 (i may have dates wrong) Kingspan had had
a test conducted which failed . In fact at the test the ignition source was removed
20 mins into the test ,at which point the panel continued to burn under its own steam
until it had to be put out after the hour allowed for the test.
A later test was conducted but cement fibre or particle boards were added which
allowed the test to scrape through. On the strength of that they then advertised
that their panels were suitable for use in buildings over 18m in height.
The additional boards did not form part of their system and customers were only
given a reference to the test and were expected to analise it for themselves,
thereby passing the responsability on to them.
It transpires that all in both companies were aware of this ,thus in my book its
nothing short of corporate manslaughter.
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Post by assassin Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:49 am

You are totally correct Dave.
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