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Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

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Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by Waffle on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:25 pm

To avoid further opinions being thrown around I am suggesting opening a research thread for any wiling contributors of evidential and factual proof to confirm if we the people are bankrupt or if it is just the state that is bankrupt.

There has been some good coverage over a couple of threads on this topic so to maintain the integrity of those threads I thought we could continue this discussion here Very Happy



As sureties for the bankrupt state, operating in a bankrupt system, using debt instruments as credit in good faith, never paying anything and never being paid, holding no allodial title to any property or land as it all vests in the state.  Both our natural and artificial persons are used under public civil law in the state and held in custody by the wards of the state as property of the state. I'm finding it hard to see our true status as not being deemed bankrupt. But without the hard evidence it is as good as a second guess.

Wiki is not my favourite source for reference material, especially not for proving facts but a good starting point and an interesting read: History of Bankruptcy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bankruptcy_law

In Ancient Greece, bankruptcy did not exist. If a man owed and he could not pay, he and his wife, children or servants were forced into "debt slavery", until the creditor recouped losses via their physical labour. Many city-states in ancient Greece limited debt slavery to a period of five years and debt slaves had protection of life and limb, which regular slaves did not enjoy. However, servants of the debtor could be retained beyond that deadline by the creditor and were often forced to serve their new lord for a lifetime, usually under significantly harsher conditions.

In Judaism and the Torah, or Old Testament, every seventh year is decreed by Mosaic Law as a Sabbatical year wherein the release of all debts that are owed by members of the Jewish community is mandated, but not of "gentiles".[1] The seventh Sabbatical year, or forty-ninth year, is then followed by another Sabbatical year known as the Year of Jubilee wherein the release of all debts is mandated, for fellow community members and foreigners alike, and the release of all debt-slaves is also mandated.[2] The Year of Jubilee is announced in advance on the Day of Atonement, or the tenth day of the seventh Biblical month, in the forty-ninth year by the blowing of trumpets throughout the land of Israel.

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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by assassin on Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:50 am

It works on belief and assumption, people are indoctrinated to believe and are indoctrinated into that belief.

People cannot owe anything as human beings, they can only owe something by consent and consent is a multiple limbed device used by societies and created by societies for their benefit (note benefit) and by incorporating people into fictitious entities using contract law essentially, and why every form of consent or not consenting is so important. It also works through wards and this is the easiest to explain.

Boy and girl grow up (man and wo/man) and are registered by their parents, they are now a WARD of the state, they go to school and are REGISTERED at a school and the headteacher is the WARDER and the teachers are WARDENS under guardianship registration. Both leave school and are forced to REGISTER to vote, and have to be assigned to an ELECTORAL WARD so they can vote.
Both find employment and are assigned a NI number by the state they are REGISTERED TO and by acceptance they are forced to pay income tax and NI contributions.

Man gets Wo/man pregnant and the state sees more revenue, they REGISTER with a doctor, or public body owned by the state and the Wo/man AGREES to go to anti natal classes as she cannot be forced to go to them, she voluntarily goes into a hospital WARD for these classes and accepts the benefit of the state again, school being the first benefit.

Can you see where this is going?



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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by Ferry Man on Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:45 am

Yes, most men end up in hell because of the women in their lives, it should not be this way, was not Eve supposed to be a companion and support for Adam ?

Typical Scene: Husband says - "Honey can you/we do a Home Birth because Hospitals are foreign jurisdictions and you will be coerced to register an event culminating in the Estate passing as abandoned under Ecclesiastical Law?"

Wife says - " What are you serious, no way I want the best care I can get "

You see they get to the (Womb)man first as after Birth she is legally and lawfully deemed incompetent, (well you would be after that) and the rest is a cinch.

Assassin the Wife is the Husbands Ward in Ecclesistical Law as are his Children, as He has not stepped up and done what he should have done as their Guardian, in steps the State under Parens Patriae, delegated from the King.

On top of that the Law of Inheritance was abolished in 1925, and everyone placed into Probate (Civil Law), 1925 LPA ..........their was a big hoo haa in parliament at the time this Bill was passed as some were in the know as to what this really meant and implied.

Sorry Waffle, back to bankruptcy ..... Chapter 11 Debtors in possession.

Are we the Debtors at Law with Legal Title ?

Are they the Debtors in Equity ?, we have an equitable asset, substance our labour, our work....what do they bring ?

Fraudulent conveyances and unconscionable demands.

There does not seem to be a public announcement the State is Bankrupt, but then their is no longer a Public Record under the Corporation where it could be placed.

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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by Ferry Man on Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:00 am

Persons are incorporated through Estate Law not Contract Law.

Further: their must be an Estate before a Trust can be formed, their must be a Trust before a Corporation can be formed..... the question is what is the Res placed into Trust and who are the Title holders and what are their roles and relationships to one another?

This is the Crux of comprehending Bankruptcy!

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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by iamani on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:34 am

Hi Ferry Man

Interesting questions. i believe the res to be bonds backed by Vatican gold (both sexes) and land of the realm (males).

Who would you say are the trustees?

and:

Vatican - City of London - Washington D.C. : Would you (or anyone else) happen to know who owns who owns who?

Cheers!

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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by Ferry Man on Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:58 am

Hi Iamani

The TRUSTEES are those who hold the res, they have possession of it, who has possession of your title to your NAME/ESTATE ?

The Vatican has the outrageous claim that it is trustee of all the souls and infants among other things...


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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by landlubber on Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:19 pm

If we are trapped by the state as their slaves, you cannot call it by any other name, so what is our way/means to get out of this trap?

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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by iamani on Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:25 pm

Hi landlubber

You're right, 'a rose by any other name etc'. However we are only enslaved by means of a tool we don't understand. Once we gain an understanding of said tool we can use it to our benefit instead of theirs, and even use it to free ourselves.

Thing is, we ARE trapped - but we enjoy the trappings.....

Cheers!

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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by landlubber on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:07 pm

Hi Iamani

I didn't ask the question as a believer in slavery, only that the government twists its statutes, acts and legislation to try and fool us. They cannot do anything against us without our consent and despite what they may, or may not think with regard to myself, I gave them no consent to allow them to treat me as a slave. But then these are just my thoughts. It's like the subject of bankruptcy, I don't consider myself to be bankrupt, though I do know that we all take a part in being bankrupt by accepting the debt notes given to us to spend, thereby perpetuating the state of bankruptcy that we're in. Although I do not know a whole lot about bankruptcy, surely that if a government acts in a manner knowing that it is bankrupt, but behaving like it isn't, then it is committing a crime? How can any individual be made bankrupt in a system that has no money of intrinsic value? What for instance, did a bank give in consideration towards a mortgage when they not only bankrupt that customer, but sell the note for profit besides? Where did anything of value exchange hands if the only item of value is the property alone? It's like a vicious circle where the only thing that exists is:Belief. But then this is just a state of mind...

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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by iamani on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:36 pm

Hi landlubber

No argument fella, you are absolutely right. They enjoy a marked lack of morality in their implementation of both law and code, and in their eyes it's 'let he who will be deceived be deceived' and sod the ignorant.

At least we're no longer ignorant!

Cheers!

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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by iamani on Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:50 pm

Hi all

Sorry Waffle! Back to bankruptcy then...

Is it possible for a populated land to be bankrupt? There's always the people...

Is 'nation' or 'national' a commercial term? Because 'national debt' surely is. The many man of this land have never been directly involved in the contracts that produced said debt, so the living man owes nothing.

It is only the many 'persons' who have agreed to pay it off in their ignorance. Comes back to same old question - do you, and will you, continue to think of yourself as a person? If you can provide 'proof of life' to the right 'person/s' you owe nothing.

If people insist on gobbling down the blue pills then they absolutely deserve to be tied to the national debt. They'll catch on eventually and then.... my, won't we be popular!

Cheers!

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Re: Are we Bankrupt or is it just the state

Post by Waffle on Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:19 am

Thanks for your opinions, but lets assert some facts

For the sake of this thread it would be good to start in 1914

1914 was the year the gold standard was removed and the Bankruptcy Act of 1914 was legislated. In Part 1 s1 (a) it states:

A debtor commits an act of bankruptcy in each of
the following cases :—

(a) If in England or elsewhere he makes a conveyance or assignment of his property to a trustee or trustees for the benefit of his creditors generally

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1914/59/pdfs/ukpga_19140059_en.pdf

The UK suspended the gold standard in 1914 bowing to the necessaries of war. Wartime manufacturing caused inflation and helped enliven trade unions and the Treasury, rather than the Bank of England, printed some banknotes itself during the war years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1399693/A-history-of-sterling.html

So I would ask why was it the Treasuries duty to print paper money?

Paper money originated in in the 16th century and was issued by goldsmiths prior to a reformation by the first central bank The Bank of England in 1694 who acted as the governments banker and debt manager.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1399693/A-history-of-sterling.html
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/Pages/history/default.aspx

Now if in 1694 the BoE acted as the debt manager for the government, when we hold a bank note who's truly owes us that debt, is it the BoE as said on the note or are they just managing the governments debts.....

Anywho back to 1914, from here the Gold standard was removed up until 1925 where it was temporarily reinstated by the Gold Standard Act 1925, which can be seen here:

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-eda-a8jaQS5E9hKh/The%20Gold%20Standard%20Act%20Of%201925_djvu.txt

s1 states:

1. — (1) Unless and until His Majesty by Proclama- Issue of
tion otherwise directs — gold coin

(a) The Bank of England, notwithstanding anything bright?

in any Act, shall not be bound to pay any note t o purchase
of the Bank (in this Act referred to as " a bank gold bullion,
note") in legal coin within the meaning of
section six of the Bank of England Act, 1833, 3&4WU1.4.
and bank notes shall not cease to be legal tender c - 98 -
by reason that the Bank do not continue to pay
bank notes in such legal coin :

(b) Subsection (3) of section one of the Currency

and Bank Notes Act, 1914 (which provides that 4 &. 5 Geo. 5.
the holder of a currency note shall be entitled *• M-
to obtain payment for the note at its face value
in gold coin) shall cease to have effect :

(c) Section eight of the Coinage Act, 1870 (which 33 & 34 Vict

entitles any person bringing gold bullion to the c - 10 -
Mint to have it assayed, coined and delivered
to him) shall, except as respects gold bullion
brought to the Mint by the Bank of England,
cease to have effect.

Section 1:
We can see here that from this period the BoE bank notes remained as legal tender and they did not have to exchange/pay a banknote in legal coin. A holder of a currency note would not be able to obtain payment in gold coin, no one was entitled to take gold bullion to the Mint to have it coined except the BoE.

This act was repealed in 1931 two years prior to the US abolishment of the gold standard.




The Gold Standard Amendment Act 1931 act states:

1.— Suspension of right to purchase gold bullion.

(1) Unless and until His Majesty by Proclamation otherwise directs, subsection

(2) of section one of the Gold Standard Act, 19251 , shall cease to have effect, notwithstanding that subsection

(1) of the said section remains in force.

(2) The Bank of England are hereby discharged from all liabilities in respect of anything done by the Bank in contravention of the provision of the said subsection

(2) at any time after the eighteenth day of September, nineteen hundred and thirty-one, and no proceedings whatsoever shall be instituted against the Bank or any other person in respect of anything so done as aforesaid.

(3) It shall be lawful for the Treasury to make, and from time to time vary, orders authorising the taking of such measures in relation to the exchanges and otherwise as they may consider expedient for meeting dif culties arising in connection with the suspension of the gold standard.
This subsection shall continue in force for a period of six months from the passing of this Act.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/321509/response/785516/attach/2/RM%2024%2016%20Annex%20Final.pdf

NO PROCEEDINGS SHALL BE INSTITUTED AGAINST THE BANK.

This act suspended the gold standard, namely subsection 2 of section 1 of the 1925 gold standard act which states:

Which unfortunately I can't quite make out in the text of the link above as it is a little corrupt (not the only thing corrupt in this post). At this stage its the BoE that shall not have proceedings instituted against them, I would suggest that at this stage it is us that can not institute proceedings to collect our gold.

It would be good to understand if a debtor did make a conveyance or assignment of his property to a trustee for the benefit of his creditor generally, in this case!

If anyone wants to contribute by defining facts and move it forwards from here feel free to jump in Very Happy

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