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Discussion About Contribution

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Discussion About Contribution

Post by landlubber on Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:03 pm

This is directed towards Waffle and Ferry Man. Why is it that certain members of this group have quite exceptional knowledge, enough to help all concerned with harrowing situations, and yet...
Why is it that those of us who'd like to have the knowledge do not, but have to play silly games, like guess this and guess that. We're not here to play silly buggers, as someone use to say that I knew. We're here to help those with problems....aren't we???
I'm sorry, but it really pi**es me off when someone, who is obviously quite knowledgeable refuses to give straightforward answers, responses, information without leading everyone around the houses and even then playing silly games and getting absolutely nowhere.
Let me put this straight, if I can help anyone, then I'll tell it straight and one thing is certain, I have no wish to prolong anyone's agony.
If in order to discover answers we must do the research ourselves, then this group is no more than a chat forum. I cannot speak nor have a wish to for anyone else, but if I can help anyone because I have researched this or that subject, I don't then turn around and say to everyone else...go do your research!
CT is one of today's greatest scams and as good a reason why we should all be working to a common goal, not playing games because so and so is smarter than anyone else. Should anyone feel that they fall into the latter catagory, then there's no room for me on this forum any longer.
I fell into a trap when I went with the advice of Ken Dobson on Faceache, much to my chagrin, but it won't happen again.
So, if Waffle and Ferry Man have something to say, be men and say it, we're not here to play guessing games. I greatly respect anyone who is here to help, myself included. If I have stepped on anyone's foot, then you recognize yourself for what you are, but I mean no disrespect to anyone.


Last edited by assassin on Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Language)

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Waffle on Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:52 pm

Landlubber, thank you for your comments, they are warmly welcomed in my eyes.

This is a challenging situation to provide the most appropriate advice to achieve the best outcome for the OP.

As Dave rightly pointed out CT is a dangerous area, not to put the fear in anyone, but merely for realism, there were one or two on the old site that challenged CT with a basic understanding and ended up in the big house.

I for one do not want to provide information for someone to gain a basic understanding only to end up in more trouble than what they started with.

I do not have the answer for CT as I have not piloted the theories myself. The circumstances are far deeper than one could imagine, therefore posting a couple of comments on here could never convey enough to have a full enough understanding to challenge council tax competently.

This subject needs formal training courses over periods, its taken me over a year to get to the comprehension I have, and Ive achieved that through independent research, but do not have the ability to start training people when I have not tested the theories myself.

If however, others are on a similar understanding, have the means to test the theories through their own choice then that is a different story, but I am yet to see anyone who wants or could do that. Its far worse for me to start leading people up pathways that lead to burning pits of fire than it is to withheld information. People need to get the understanding at the right pace otherwise it will just have the opposite effect and confuse the hell out of anyone.

There is an old saying "a little information can be dangerous" we are dealing with entities that are working for the devil, a little information could get Satans delegates burning people.

It is not a matter of who is smarter than the next, it is a case of what understanding does one have. I know very little about HR, you can teach that landlubber, I couldn't. We all have our own pieces to the puzzle. But as you know it is not for a matter of a couple of posts in a forum these subjects are far more detailed than what meets the eye.

I have asked questions as I don't have the answer to them, I don't have the means to push on the doors to ask questions as I am not a land owner. It should be contributory we are all here together for the same purposes (broadly).... How about we work together, lets get some facts and some solutions, lets get them tried and tested, lets sort out the nusineces to make them more successful in the future. To achieve that we should work together on topics providing factual data that contributes to the hypothesis. Ive posted numerous threads to elicit this and had little to no resourceful help.

There is so much I still don't understand and so much I don't think I ever will, we all start somewhere, here is a good place. Why isn't anyone contributing substantive research to the works in development.

People are so quick to want the answer, the solution but not take the time to understand, ask questions or research topics themselves. That may sound harsh but sometimes we have to be harsh to be kind for everyones best interests.

The two main reasons I came here were to learn and to help others. I am doing both in the best ways possible without causing more harm by providing people with the little bits of dangerous information. Lets help each other and we can help ourselves, ultimately its only us that can do that.

Its a very important point you have made Landlubber that needs discussing, I appreciate the opportunity to answer your query. Above all I hope my response helps with everyones understanding.

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Ferry Man on Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:12 pm

Landlubber:

With respect either you have something to contribute or if not wind it back in and go and have a moan at some one else will you.

Right as you want me be to straight I will tell you straight, I am not here to do it for you or to do all the work for you, I have added some direction that I know for a fact will help those who follow it, Go to section 3 of the 1992 LGFA and then come back with a comment that is relevant to what I posted and I might be able to enlighten you further.... if you are too lazy and arrogant to even do that, Then i wont be engaging with you, I am sorry but that is how I operate, I learned my lessons from the old forum not to waste time on tyre kickers and sponges.

I spent at least six weeks reading through those Acts until the penny dropped, with Council Tax (Waffle can vouch for that) and I have spent many years and months researching Law generally, I am afraid even if I was to try and summarise what I have learned to some one not fully competent and aware of what is going on, it would be dangerous for them, I have no intention of giving advice you want to hear and watching people lose their shirt or go to prison because of a quick fix approach, This is deeper than you could possibly imagine.

I will repeat one more time:

1992 LGFA section 3, Chargeable Dwellings and follow the arrows, (definitions are your pointer), you will find the Evidence not in the 1992 Act, but in the earlier Acts by citation. You might wish to learn the rules on reading and interpreting Statutes too or you may end up chasing your tail.

I am sorry there is no substitute for going and reading it yourself. I don't owe you my time Landlubber, but you owe it to yourself to go and read, maybe then we can talk, it is called reciprocity..


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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by actinglikeabanker on Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:53 am

We are 'all' at polarized peaks in different areas of knowledge and experience. Out of respect for each other, I hope we can 'all' understand that.

landlubber raised a valid point, we (all of us who contribute) are not a secret society!.

I hope that we can treat each other with respect, understanding and dignity when approaching or discussing a topic so that we can 'all' benefit from any shared expressions, feelings or other.
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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Ferry Man on Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:45 am

On the contrary ALAB Landlubber did not make a valid point, he made an unsupported accusation and a set of erroneous presumptions against myself and Waffle.

I do not have Exceptional Knowledge neither am I a saviour to people on this forum under attack from the parasites, and neither am I obligated to perform altruism especially for people with that attitude.

I am willing to share knowledge and info with others who reciprocate, which as we are discovering are few and far between.

We have put in a lot of hard work with our research, I spent most of the early part of the year studying Council Tax and it is too much of me to ask you to go away and read one frigging section to catch up ?

If you want respect give a little back. I will give Landlubber and yourselves ALAB the opportunity to rethink your comments.

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Jinxer on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:13 am

Ferry Man wrote:On the contrary ALAB Landlubber did not make a valid point, he made an unsupported accusation and a set of erroneous presumptions against myself and Waffle.

I do not have Exceptional Knowledge neither am I a saviour to people on this forum under attack from the parasites, and neither am I obligated to perform altruism especially for people with that attitude.

I am willing to share knowledge and info with others who reciprocate, which as we are discovering are few and far between.

We have put in a lot of hard work with our research, I spent most of the early part of the year studying Council Tax and it is too much of me to ask you to go away and read one frigging section to catch up ?

If you want respect give a little back. I will give Landlubber and yourselves ALAB the opportunity to rethink your comments.

Who actually cares. If you can help no surrender with his quest then help him if not don't try and make his thread about you and how much respect you deserve, if you want to do that open your own thread up.

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by daveiron on Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:59 pm

Ferry Man.

Landlubber Has always shared with others information ,here & on the old site .
This site is called the Community for a reason ,if you are not prepared to share your research with others what is your purpose here? Why not use your name from the old site ? Would it by any chance be Dead beat dad ,because your replies appear with the same ( I know all the answers ,but i'm not telling you) attitude.

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Discussion About Contribution

Post by Ferry Man on Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:36 pm

Dave I never said I was not going to share information and I already did share some information, which was obviously not appreciated and this emphasises my point, you all harp on about community and co-operation, yet you are effectively saying to me give me all your information and the efforts of your research now and for free with no input from ourselves, and if you don't, your playing games..

I think your idea of a community is one where some one else does the work, not one where work and reward is shared on a reciprocal basis.

Landlubber is into the Human Rights Act, I personally think that is a waste of time and something they can change and adjust to suit the agenda of the day, I give him credit for researching it, but he has no right accusing me of all sorts, simply because doesn't want to go and read something for himself.

There is a wisdom why I set you the task of investigating that particular information, and none of you had the savvy to pick up on it, rather you attack the messenger. not one of you haven taken up the challenge or asked me a relevant question on section3, yet so far I have four critiques on myself, one of which is slanderous I think I am done on here, to be honest, you guys, unless you change your attitude are likely to be in the same conundrum five-ten years from now, there are people charging a fee to disclose what I am giving you, albeit in small doses.

Yes some may even be on this forum, people charging a fee for info that is questionable at best, but that is alright for some innit.

I could quite easily charge for my information, instead I have decided I will work with and assist those who are prepared to do some work also and not expect some one else to do it all for them, that is the quid pro quo, I am not here to be derided and accused by those who demand I owe them a favour.

And no I am not Deadbeatdad, i actually post information that has substance. Anyway I am done wasting my time, you are obviously blind to a pointer when its put your way, to any of the members who are interested in research and progress, they can PM, I think that is best for all concerned.

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by actinglikeabanker on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:33 pm

I have split this part of the original thread to its own thread as it is going way off topic and is unfair to the OP.

Ferry Man, If you feel my comment was directed specifically at you then I apologise as this was not my intent.

I hope we can 'all' keep it clean and be respectful to each other without letting our ego's get in the way.



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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Ferry Man on Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:49 pm

No worries ALAB

I did not intend to derail the thread away from the OP, I have the right to defend my person and character form defamation, childish comments I can ignore.
My initial pointer to Dave was to induce not only Dave but the OP to rethink what they think Council Tax to be, and how and why Liability falls on particular persons... it would be of no value me telling the OP that the court is probate and a guardian/ward relationship is presumed that would fill a book and would be above their current capacity to absorb.

Instead I have alluded to the proof that matters - that which exist in the Statute the council claims allows them to charge Council Tax, if those who are not bothered enough to read it, fine, just don't make it a personal attack agenda because I wont do it for those who are too lazy, and that is what it is laziness and bad attitude, the peasants of 200 years ago had the excuse of being illiterate and denied information, this is the era of the internet ffs. you are a few clicks away from what you need and ten minutes from reading through a Statutory Provision that may help change your life... what more can I say.

I will limit my correspondence now to PM only.

On the topic of contribution it seems that there are a couple of characters doing all the contributing (useful info) and the rest sitting back and doing diddly squat.. as always.

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Jinxer on Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:58 pm

On the subject of Council Tax. Is there anyone who can honestly say they are not obliged to pay this tax and are managing without paying it.
I haven't gone reading through all the act's or statutes because I wouldn't have a clue what I was reading and would be non the wiser by doing so.
I own land out right with no mortgage and council tax has always been like a noose around my neck and I tried 3 times in the past without success and yes i probably did give in a bit to easily in Court as I didn't know what I was doing.
What get's to me is when a member posts asking for help and then another member answers purporting to have the answer but then says basically fook you I'm not going to help you but go read this bit for yourself and then come back and bow down to me and i might give you another bit to look at.
I would go as far as to say anyone who owns their own home will not get out of paying council tax and anyone who says they are is lying. They may avoid it for a bit but it never goes away.

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by assassin on Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:31 pm

I would answer it thus:

Landlubber has a very valid point and I have great respect for him gained over many years, but here are the problems I see.

1/ People are at different stages of learning and generally take only one view, theirs.

2/ People often PM others when a topic ought to be put into public view on the site so everyone can see the information, and I have often referred many individual PM questions directly to the site as the information can benefit many.

3/ People often have individual circumstances and they dont always put their relevent individual circumstances and only use more generalised circumstances, and this can often lead to a different response from numerous respondents basing their knowledge upon general circumstances and this may be the wrong information for a specific circumstance.

4/ Many of us have tried to help people out and heard nothing back from them, a simple PM with a thank you is not unreasonable, and I personally have had the other extreme where I have had financial recompense offered even though it is always refused as I help others for free.

5/ Times move on and evolution plays a part, what works one month may not work the next month and this can be due to many reasons such as a change in legislation to a specific change in company policy, and we have to remember that as we move forwards, so do they. We find a way of thwarting them, they find a way of successfully defending it, and of course most of our opposition have deep pockets and a lot of legal resources at their disposal.

6/ Many people do not do their research and this is essential to have a clearer understanding of what they are doing, many people take one approach and cannot handle the comeback and fall into the same traps and can end off worse than when they started. In more complex cases it is virtually compulsary to have this information.

7/ As Waffle has been mentioned I will use him as an example, i'm sure he wont mind. He was doing some research and on two different occasions I directed him to two different areas, he didn't even consider these areas and when they were suggested, he researched them with an open mind and found more connections to make. I had the answers and now he has them and this brings up the point of knowledge, is it better to point someone in the right direction and let them do their research, or simply give them the answers? In this instance I know Waffle researched and found his answers and gleaned even more information by doing so.

This isn't a definitive list, but simply a few points worthy of mention.
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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Waffle on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:25 pm

I have no issue with you using me as an example assassin.

For everyone's peace of mind, they are charging you council tax lawfully because your land/property is in the wrong capacity, and so are all of you. The remedies are there, they have not been tried and tested.

The problem is the councils are one of the most viscous of satans deciples second to HMRC. It's something you really have to understand yourself all the pointers have been given. As you said Assasin you gave me some pointers and I made the most of what you gave by going and looking, we are all capable,and should be doing this for our own benefit. No one has asked questions, no one has reported back after looking for themselves, after pointers had been given asking for more direction, it's all at our fingertips......,

From my view IF the theories had been trailed and tested and were successful we could offer more free support. But its going to take time to get everything in place. I reckon I'm 6 months away at least from having the appropriate knowledge to achieve this. I'm going to have to pay someone to acquire the rest of what I need and have formal training courses. When I'm there I'm there and will be able to confidently share and help others, but at the moment I can't even help myself, so how am I expected to help others, that would be stupid and dangerous.

I'm happy to share knowledge when I wouldn't be putting others at risk. This is just too risky until we have more skills and experience.

Maybe the recent takedown of Ceylons trusts and council tax video is another example, people are walking similar paths but are not yet in a position to provide conclusive safe advice


Last edited by Waffle on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Ferry Man on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:33 pm

Assassin you would call defaming another on the forum a valid point would you, simply because going away and reading a statutory provision you have been referred to is too much like hard work.... you then use the example of Waffle to appraise yourself as the great messenger, but did waffle then turn around and slag you off because you would not spell it out or do the reading for him ? I think not.

Jinxer.... Slander ! you can foxtrot Oscar, you have not read a word on the subject, yet you know enough to post a critique on my research and information and why I post what I do. I barely think your worth even that many words on my keyboard to be honest.

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by teddy2 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:25 pm

i
ive had a long day! however i know the dangers of mis reading a post, its good to chill and read and reread a post , not one of this thread are malicious nor to do harm yet as noted knowledgeable lets reflect and move forward . to share and pioneer for the good of all
the mark windows latest vid is awake up to everyone
of the dwelling on council tax , should our status be prime as the man and sovereign not the fiction .
interesting times and without doubt observed by others . it saddens myself to see such trusted revv on each other. tesla against brunel . peace guys.


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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:04 am

Hi teddy2

Well that certainly calmed ME down...... thanks!

Cheers!

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by assassin on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:14 am

Ferry Man, I saw no deformation but I saw some valid points being made, if you were defamed I would have acted as would a number of other mods.

I am not appraising anyone, merely giving an example and as Waffle was pointed in the right direction it is just that, being pointed in the right direction and nothing more or less, and claiming I am some great messenger is absurd and could be construed as deformation, but hey. If you think you have been defamed then feel free to contact any MOD by PM and outline your case.
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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by assassin on Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:24 am

Waffle, your post was interesting and contains some assumptions, you assume I haven't been where others have been and this infers I am sitting on the sidelines when I, like many others do a considerable amount of research and pass it to others, if you refer to point 5 of my earlier post it explains it.

Many theories exist and have been tried over many years, and this information may work in one area but not another, and here is the problem, the collusion of all the systems. You cannot fight one system as you have to fight the one and all the others that support them and back them up to suppress you and keep you down.
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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Ferry Man on Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:47 am

Assassin did I say "great messenger", ok I am guilty of adding a little sarcasm to make my point. I know what the word appraise means, you would not have liked it if your message was thrown back at you with insults and neither would anyone else.

I think it is pretty clear to anyone able to read that Landlubbers post was nothing to do with my pointer about section 3, but rather to cast negative rumours over myself and waffle, and why we are not helping others enough, we have helped, the problem is the signs are being ignored.

ALAB offered an apology, when to be honest he didn't need to, he expressed an opinion I thought was erroneous, but he has not accused me of anything or defamed my character, unlike the others, who are still happy with their conduct..

Thanks for the offer of contacting a MOD but I think I will decline as I know where I stand with you already.

That is the great thing about choice.

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by assassin on Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:59 pm

Ferry Man, once again you are acting upon an assumption by stating you think you know where you stand with me, an assumption?

When a decision is made it is made by a number of site mods and no single mod, and a genuine offer to assist has been rejected, therefore I have no other option to lock this topic if people are feeling victimised by it.
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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by assassin on Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:32 am

Having let others decide on this issue it has been decided to unlock it.
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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Lopsum on Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:04 am

so long as points of view are communicated and insults are avoided i see nothing wrong, the thread split was fair on the op .
I think there is a problem being highlighted which is fair enough , if we get beyond the personal level we could think of ways to make the problem less.
Is there anything we can think of that would help this situation such as a section or structure for those who have researched to be able to relay their theorys without resorting to pm, which doesnot sit easy with me. Pms are not the way to spread information and could potentially be used to deliberately misguide and go unnoticed . We have a responsibility to not allow this to happen , this isnot to say anyone believes this IS happening!
 Ferryman may i suggest you make a thread regarding your research . It will be easier to collaborate with others if you present the path you found , then you could get more in the zone to go further with people who understand the theory.
Alot of it will come down to how you interpret words , so perhaps a revision section and a section on your interpretations to your thread would be a good start. How far you go is up to you ofc.
 That seems to be the way to go from here, makes more sense than waiting for people to mention counciltax (who are at the very beginning of their path!) and offloading in those types of thread.
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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Jinxer on Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:12 pm

What I will say about Council Tax is don't just stop paying it on a whim unless you are prepared to go all the way which could even mean a spell in prison. Council tax has been around since 1994 I think and I don't think there is anyone who can be truly honest and say they have managed not to pay this without consequences. Many have tried in the past and as far as I know no one can say it's been cracked.
These new ways are just that new ways which are still being tested and fair play to the ones who are testing them but don't just stop paying unless you are sure.
Legislation is wrote in a way that it can mean different things in the way it gets interpreted and the Court will always interpret it the way that benefits them not you.
The sure way of getting rid of this tax would be by mass withholding to pay like what was done with the poll tax but I even think they would of prepared themselves for that. Whilst they can generate even more money when you don't pay then they will be happy for you not to pay. I got scared about challenging them when they took the guys house off him in Manchester by inflating the costs to around 75 grand for a couple of grand they said he owed them.

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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Ferry Man on Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:27 am

lopsum

Thank you for taking some time to give this thread some thought, however as I said before I am only working by PM when I visit this site (this reply excepted), I have stated my reasons already in this thread and the rates thread I initiated.

I am offering assistance by PM, and I am currently helping one member in a matter, and I wish to maintain their privacy and mine in that, if my using PM to work with others is a problem for you, then perhaps disabling my access is your remedy.


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Re: Discussion About Contribution

Post by Lopsum on Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:38 pm

ok we have decided to disable your pm ability , we cannot allow secret advisors to operate on this forum for obvious reasons.
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