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Moon phases
Police PC Numbers
+2
assassin
Phillpots
6 posters
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Police PC Numbers
Does anyone know when the Police stopped using PCXXX on their uniforms and just went to the numbers?
Phillpots- Very helpful
- Posts : 336
Join date : 2017-06-07
Re: Police PC Numbers
They always used numbers as they are unique to a constable, it is only in recent years that names have been added to them and names are no means of identification, only the number.
assassin- Admin
- Posts : 3547
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head
Re: Police PC Numbers
C stands for Constable.
Do you mean to say there is no longer an indication that they are constables ?
Even more reason to ensure they are by asking about their status and Oath.
Do you mean to say there is no longer an indication that they are constables ?
Even more reason to ensure they are by asking about their status and Oath.
Society of the Spectacle- Admin
- Posts : 1289
Join date : 2017-01-15
Location : Castor
Re: Police PC Numbers
I think the letters determined in what capacity they are in the service, ie PC was Police Constable SC was Special Constable TO was Traffic Officer and so on. I haven't really noticed that they have dropped the letters but if they have you can bet your life it means something that the Police themselves probably don't know the reason for.
Jinxer- Very helpful
- Posts : 436
Join date : 2017-06-03
Re: Police PC Numbers
Another angle on this is the warrant card as it's the warrant card that gives constables their powers. From what I remember when I read what was printed on a warrant card it made no mention of Police officer, but it was some time ago.
midnight- Very helpful
- Posts : 246
Join date : 2017-05-25
Age : 61
Location : Wisbech
Re: Police PC Numbers
Hi all
Yes, it's a fundamental premise. This definitely warrants (ha!) further scrutiny....
Cheers!
Yes, it's a fundamental premise. This definitely warrants (ha!) further scrutiny....
Cheers!
Guest- Guest
Re: Police PC Numbers
Hi all
.....and whatever you do, don't type PCXXX into Google! There are some things you should never see.....!
Cheers!
.....and whatever you do, don't type PCXXX into Google! There are some things you should never see.....!
Cheers!
Guest- Guest
Re: Police PC Numbers
VOSA Officers carry a warrant card and they aren't Police, they have the power to stop a vehicle but can't detain you. It is an offence not to stop for them and refusing to comply with their instructions.midnight wrote:Another angle on this is the warrant card as it's the warrant card that gives constables their powers. From what I remember when I read what was printed on a warrant card it made no mention of Police officer, but it was some time ago.
Jinxer- Very helpful
- Posts : 436
Join date : 2017-06-03
Re: Police PC Numbers
As far as I know shoulder badges, identity numbers, epaulettes now show just numbers for those that would have just been constables in the past. I maybe wrong but some great posts that take us all a little closer to a possible answer and fun with it. No I'm not going to enter into Google PCXXX for sure. Now that would be a distraction
Phillpots- Very helpful
- Posts : 336
Join date : 2017-06-07
Re: Police PC Numbers
I've never been able to find any act or statute that gives the Police a power to make you follow them to one of the checkpoints that they set up these days. There is an act that gives the Police the right to stop and direct you into a census and they can require you to go to a weigh bridge if suspected of being overweight but nothing where you have to follow them to a checkpoint.
I'm just going to try PCXXX in google so if I'm not back for a couple of hours it's cause I'm busy studying the results.
I'm just going to try PCXXX in google so if I'm not back for a couple of hours it's cause I'm busy studying the results.
Jinxer- Very helpful
- Posts : 436
Join date : 2017-06-03
Re: Police PC Numbers
Hi guys
Jinxer - don't say i didn't warn you!
The 'police' don't have the power to make you follow them. A 'constable' only has the power to 'attract your attention' unless he has reasonable grounds to suspect you of a crime - not an offence, note the distinction......
Cheers!
Jinxer - don't say i didn't warn you!
The 'police' don't have the power to make you follow them. A 'constable' only has the power to 'attract your attention' unless he has reasonable grounds to suspect you of a crime - not an offence, note the distinction......
Cheers!
Guest- Guest
Re: Police PC Numbers
Again if I recall correctly some river bailiffs have warrant cards. I am sure that there are more examples. I do not recall what powers they have though as it has been some time. I am sure that warrant cards are not only issued to constables, however the powers that the warrant card permit may differ from say a constable and a river bailiff.
Just googled water bailiff warrent card and I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_card
This maybe of interest to some though "The warrant number is equivalent to a badge number in other police services; it is a unique identifier unlike a collar number (sometimes displayed on the uniform) which may change when transferring between departments or changing rank." So if you were to make a complaint against a constable which number would you use?
Just googled water bailiff warrent card and I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_card
This maybe of interest to some though "The warrant number is equivalent to a badge number in other police services; it is a unique identifier unlike a collar number (sometimes displayed on the uniform) which may change when transferring between departments or changing rank." So if you were to make a complaint against a constable which number would you use?
Last edited by midnight on Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:38 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated post and added a link)
midnight- Very helpful
- Posts : 246
Join date : 2017-05-25
Age : 61
Location : Wisbech
Re: Police PC Numbers
Jinxer wrote:VOSA Officers carry a warrant card and they aren't Police, they have the power to stop a vehicle but can't detain you. It is an offence not to stop for them and refusing to comply with their instructions.midnight wrote:Another angle on this is the warrant card as it's the warrant card that gives constables their powers. From what I remember when I read what was printed on a warrant card it made no mention of Police officer, but it was some time ago.
Incorrect, firstly VOSA have no powers to stop anyone which is why they always have the Police to stop vehicles for them as only the Police in uniform have the power to stop any motor vehicle. Secondly, their card isn't a warrant card, it is merely an identification card which must display their details and photograph clearly so they can be clearly identified at a later date.
They need your consent for everything, they cannot enter your vehicle, inspect or examine your vehicle without your consent and if you say NO they cannot do anything, they often threaten you with the police which is merely words and if you still say no they are powerless.
assassin- Admin
- Posts : 3547
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head
Re: Police PC Numbers
iamani wrote:Hi guys
Jinxer - don't say i didn't warn you!
The 'police' don't have the power to make you follow them. A 'constable' only has the power to 'attract your attention' unless he has reasonable grounds to suspect you of a crime - not an offence, note the distinction......
Cheers!
Nail on the head, they have to have "reasonable cause" of you having committed a crime, committing a crime, or going to commit a crime, and this constitutes reasonable suspicion.
assassin- Admin
- Posts : 3547
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head
Re: Police PC Numbers
Your quite wrong on this, since I think 2011 VOSA have the power to stop you and they carry warrant cards and in reality they have an extra power than Police as it is an offence not to help them after they stop you.assassin wrote:Jinxer wrote:VOSA Officers carry a warrant card and they aren't Police, they have the power to stop a vehicle but can't detain you. It is an offence not to stop for them and refusing to comply with their instructions.midnight wrote:Another angle on this is the warrant card as it's the warrant card that gives constables their powers. From what I remember when I read what was printed on a warrant card it made no mention of Police officer, but it was some time ago.
Incorrect, firstly VOSA have no powers to stop anyone which is why they always have the Police to stop vehicles for them as only the Police in uniform have the power to stop any motor vehicle. Secondly, their card isn't a warrant card, it is merely an identification card which must display their details and photograph clearly so they can be clearly identified at a later date.
They need your consent for everything, they cannot enter your vehicle, inspect or examine your vehicle without your consent and if you say NO they cannot do anything, they often threaten you with the police which is merely words and if you still say no they are powerless.
http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/vosas-new-stopping-powers-analysed
In my day only 3 people could stop you and that was a Police Constable in uniform, a lolly pop man/woman and a workman with a stop go sign, over the years more have been given that right.
Jinxer- Very helpful
- Posts : 436
Join date : 2017-06-03
Re: Police PC Numbers
Incorrect as to stop a vehicle any VOSA employee is specifically trained and has to have the powers conferred upon them by the Chief Constable of the specific area under the command of the Chief Constable; to date no Chief Constable has conferred these powers upon any VOSA employee, and while it is a source of revenue for the Police they will refuse to do so.
assassin- Admin
- Posts : 3547
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head
Re: Police PC Numbers
Hi all
Jinxer - i was going to point out that vosa is more aimed towards obviously commercial vehicles, so every vosa official could be certain they are going to be dealing with a 'person' in every instance, but assassin seems to have dug up a corker! If you hadn't put up your post we'd never have known, so thanks.
assassin - that is excellent Intel, thanks. Also shows a few chinks in the unified front T.H.E.Y. like to present.
Cheers!
Jinxer - i was going to point out that vosa is more aimed towards obviously commercial vehicles, so every vosa official could be certain they are going to be dealing with a 'person' in every instance, but assassin seems to have dug up a corker! If you hadn't put up your post we'd never have known, so thanks.
assassin - that is excellent Intel, thanks. Also shows a few chinks in the unified front T.H.E.Y. like to present.
Cheers!
Guest- Guest
Re: Police PC Numbers
iamani
Thank you for that, but go a little deeper than that.
Are we governed by consent? and are we policed by consent?
I will leave that one with you to figure out for yourself, and hopefully Waffle will also come along and throw a useful piece or two in.
Thank you for that, but go a little deeper than that.
Are we governed by consent? and are we policed by consent?
I will leave that one with you to figure out for yourself, and hopefully Waffle will also come along and throw a useful piece or two in.
assassin- Admin
- Posts : 3547
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head
Re: Police PC Numbers
Hi assassin
Well, i thought we were...... aren't we? You've got me worried i've missed something.... of course, it may be the de jure versus de facto issue you are referring to....
Waffle.....?
Cheers!
Well, i thought we were...... aren't we? You've got me worried i've missed something.... of course, it may be the de jure versus de facto issue you are referring to....
Waffle.....?
Cheers!
Guest- Guest
Re: Police PC Numbers
Waffle usually does some good research and drops several good points worthy of consideration into the mix.
assassin- Admin
- Posts : 3547
Join date : 2017-01-28
Location : Wherever I Lay My Head
Re: Police PC Numbers
at best it is assumed at worst it is fraudulent . I never consented by any known action, with full disclosure .
so who are the governed?
First you might assume that to be the people who the government represent , us.
But it seems the government are the governed and not the people ! The governor is ceo city of london.
The governMENT do just that , a smokescreen.
so who are the governed?
First you might assume that to be the people who the government represent , us.
But it seems the government are the governed and not the people ! The governor is ceo city of london.
The governMENT do just that , a smokescreen.
Re: Police PC Numbers
Hi assassin
Yes, i know. i was calling to him to contribute, though now i look it does seem i'm asking why you mentioned Waffle.
Lopsum - i'm hoping it's a philosophical question and he's not going to prove we're not!
Cheers!
Yes, i know. i was calling to him to contribute, though now i look it does seem i'm asking why you mentioned Waffle.
Lopsum - i'm hoping it's a philosophical question and he's not going to prove we're not!
Cheers!
Guest- Guest
Re: Police PC Numbers
Without using the freeman argument about consent (which very rarely works in my opinion unless you really know what you are doing). You are right to a certain degree assassin about the Chief Constable having to confer the power to VOSA officer's but that has now changed to I think the Secretary of state or some other political position and there is an act I read some time ago but I can't remember what the act was called at the moment.
Jinxer- Very helpful
- Posts : 436
Join date : 2017-06-03
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