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Police PC Numbers

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Police PC Numbers

Post by Phillpots on Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:43 pm

Does anyone know when the Police stopped using PCXXX on their uniforms and just went to the numbers?

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by assassin on Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:53 am

They always used numbers as they are unique to a constable, it is only in recent years that names have been added to them and names are no means of identification, only the number.
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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by Society of the Spectacle on Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:31 pm

C stands for Constable.
Do you mean to say there is no longer an indication that they are constables ?
Even more reason to ensure they are by asking about their status and Oath.
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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by Jinxer on Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:48 pm

I think the letters determined in what capacity they are in the service, ie PC was Police Constable SC was Special Constable TO was Traffic Officer and so on. I haven't really noticed that they have dropped the letters but if they have you can bet your life it means something that the Police themselves probably don't know the reason for.

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:45 pm

Hi all

Yup. Definitely seems ominous.

Cheers!

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by midnight on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:09 pm

Another angle on this is the warrant card as it's the warrant card that gives constables their powers. From what I remember when I read what was printed on a warrant card it made no mention of Police officer, but it was some time ago.

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:13 pm

Hi all

Yes, it's a fundamental premise. This definitely warrants (ha!) further scrutiny....

Cheers!

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:16 pm

Hi all

.....and whatever you do, don't type PCXXX into Google! There are some things you should never see.....!

Cheers!

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by Jinxer on Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:33 pm

midnight wrote:Another angle on this is the warrant card as it's the warrant card that gives constables their powers. From what I remember when I read what was printed on a warrant card it made no mention of Police officer, but it was some time ago.
VOSA Officers carry a warrant card and they aren't Police, they have the power to stop a vehicle but can't detain you. It is an offence not to stop for them and refusing to comply with their instructions.

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:37 pm

Hi Jinxer

If they ain't police then sod 'em!

Cheers!

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by Phillpots on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:06 pm

As far as I know shoulder badges, identity numbers, epaulettes now show just numbers for those that would have just been constables in the past. I maybe wrong but some great posts that take us all a little closer to a possible answer and fun with it. No I'm not going to enter into Google PCXXX for sure. Now that would be a distraction Very Happy

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by Jinxer on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:11 pm

I've never been able to find any act or statute that gives the Police a power to make you follow them to one of the checkpoints that they set up these days. There is an act that gives the Police the right to stop and direct you into a census and they can require you to go to a weigh bridge if suspected of being overweight but nothing where you have to follow them to a checkpoint.
I'm just going to try PCXXX in google so if I'm not back for a couple of hours it's cause I'm busy studying the results.

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by iamani on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:23 pm

Hi guys

Jinxer - don't say i didn't warn you!

The 'police' don't have the power to make you follow them. A 'constable' only has the power to 'attract your attention' unless he has reasonable grounds to suspect you of a crime - not an offence, note the distinction......

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by midnight on Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:10 am

Again if I recall correctly some river bailiffs have warrant cards. I am sure that there are more examples. I do not recall what powers they have though as it has been some time. I am sure that warrant cards are not only issued to constables, however the powers that the warrant card permit may differ from say a constable and a river bailiff.

Just googled water bailiff warrent card and I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_card

This maybe of interest to some though "The warrant number is equivalent to a badge number in other police services; it is a unique identifier unlike a collar number (sometimes displayed on the uniform) which may change when transferring between departments or changing rank." So if you were to make a complaint against a constable which number would you use?


Last edited by midnight on Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:38 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated post and added a link)

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by assassin on Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:49 am

Jinxer wrote:
midnight wrote:Another angle on this is the warrant card as it's the warrant card that gives constables their powers. From what I remember when I read what was printed on a warrant card it made no mention of Police officer, but it was some time ago.
VOSA Officers carry a warrant card and they aren't Police, they have the power to stop a vehicle but can't detain you. It is an offence not to stop for them and refusing to comply with their instructions.

Incorrect, firstly VOSA have no powers to stop anyone which is why they always have the Police to stop vehicles for them as only the Police in uniform have the power to stop any motor vehicle. Secondly, their card isn't a warrant card, it is merely an identification card which must display their details and photograph clearly so they can be clearly identified at a later date.

They need your consent for everything, they cannot enter your vehicle, inspect or examine your vehicle without your consent and if you say NO they cannot do anything, they often threaten you with the police which is merely words and if you still say no they are powerless.
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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by assassin on Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:53 am

iamani wrote:Hi guys

Jinxer  -  don't say i didn't warn you!

The 'police' don't have the power to make you follow them. A 'constable' only has the power to 'attract your attention' unless he has reasonable grounds to suspect you of a crime  -  not an offence, note the distinction......

Cheers!

Nail on the head, they have to have "reasonable cause" of you having committed a crime, committing a crime, or going to commit a crime, and this constitutes reasonable suspicion.
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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by Jinxer on Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:14 am

assassin wrote:
Jinxer wrote:
midnight wrote:Another angle on this is the warrant card as it's the warrant card that gives constables their powers. From what I remember when I read what was printed on a warrant card it made no mention of Police officer, but it was some time ago.
VOSA Officers carry a warrant card and they aren't Police, they have the power to stop a vehicle but can't detain you. It is an offence not to stop for them and refusing to comply with their instructions.

Incorrect, firstly VOSA have no powers to stop anyone which is why they always have the Police to stop vehicles for them as only the Police in uniform have the power to stop any motor vehicle. Secondly, their card isn't a warrant card, it is merely an identification card which must display their details and photograph clearly so they can be clearly identified at a later date.

They need your consent for everything, they cannot enter your vehicle, inspect or examine your vehicle without your consent and if you say NO they cannot do anything, they often threaten you with the police which is merely words and if you still say no they are powerless.
Your quite wrong on this, since I think 2011 VOSA have the power to stop you and they carry warrant cards and in reality they have an extra power than Police as it is an offence not to help them after they stop you.
http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/vosas-new-stopping-powers-analysed
In my day only 3 people could stop you and that was a Police Constable in uniform, a lolly pop man/woman and a workman with a stop go sign, over the years more have been given that right.

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by assassin on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:15 pm

Incorrect as to stop a vehicle any VOSA employee is specifically trained and has to have the powers conferred upon them by the Chief Constable of the specific area under the command of the Chief Constable; to date no Chief Constable has conferred these powers upon any VOSA employee, and while it is a source of revenue for the Police they will refuse to do so.
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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by iamani on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:26 pm

Hi all

Jinxer - i was going to point out that vosa is more aimed towards obviously commercial vehicles, so every vosa official could be certain they are going to be dealing with a 'person' in every instance, but assassin seems to have dug up a corker! If you hadn't put up your post we'd never have known, so thanks.

assassin - that is excellent Intel, thanks. Also shows a few chinks in the unified front T.H.E.Y. like to present.

Cheers!

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by assassin on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:42 pm

iamani

Thank you for that, but go a little deeper than that.

Are we governed by consent? and are we policed by consent?

I will leave that one with you to figure out for yourself, and hopefully Waffle will also come along and throw a useful piece or two in.
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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by iamani on Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:13 pm

Hi assassin

Well, i thought we were...... aren't we? You've got me worried i've missed something.... of course, it may be the de jure versus de facto issue you are referring to....

Waffle.....?

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by assassin on Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:10 pm

Waffle usually does some good research and drops several good points worthy of consideration into the mix.
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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by Lopsum on Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:40 pm

at best it is assumed at worst it is fraudulent . I never consented by any known action, with full disclosure .
so who are the governed?
First you might assume that to be the people who the government represent , us.
But it seems the government are the governed and not the people ! The governor is ceo city of london.
The governMENT do just that , a smokescreen.
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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by iamani on Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:15 pm

Hi assassin

Yes, i know. i was calling to him to contribute, though now i look it does seem i'm asking why you mentioned Waffle.

Lopsum - i'm hoping it's a philosophical question and he's not going to prove we're not!

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Re: Police PC Numbers

Post by Jinxer on Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:18 pm

Without using the freeman argument about consent (which very rarely works in my opinion unless you really know what you are doing). You are right to a certain degree assassin about the Chief Constable having to confer the power to VOSA officer's but that has now changed to I think the Secretary of state or some other political position and there is an act I read some time ago but I can't remember what the act was called at the moment.

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