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Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

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Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:45 pm

Hi all, I would really appreciate my hand holding through this process as it is all new to me and I really have no idea what to do next.

I went through the 3 letter copyright process (plus estopple) with Rob Way earlier this year and all went quiet for 6 months. They were the first DCA and I was expecting another DCA to take over but today I received the attached letter from HC solicitors.

The letter arrived through the post, it was not sent by registered or by recorded delivery so technically I could say it never arrived.

1) Do I ignore it (ie do I play for time) or should I do something about it?
2) If I should do something, what do I need to do please?

I have read loads on the forum but the information is confusing to me as a newbie.

I would really appreciate a simple step by step action plan here.

Thanking you all in advance.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:48 pm

Sorry I was not able to attach the solicitor's letter. How does one do this please?

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:04 pm

I could not upload the letter so I have typed it out here.

Howard Cohen & Co Solicitors
Suite 1B
Joseph’s Well
Hanover Walk
Leeds LS3 1AB



Notice of Pending Legal Action

Dear .........................

We have been requested by our client’s agent, Robinson Way limited, to write to you regarding the above outstanding debt.

Unless acceptable proposals for paying the amount we owe you are received within 14 days of the date of this letter, we are instructed to issue proceedings in the County Court with a view to obtaining a County Court judgement against you.  If we issue proceedings we shall ask the court for an order adding the additional legal fees and Solicitors costs to the amount you owe.  Should the court grant our request, then the additional amounts you owe are as follows:

Court fees: £490.75
Costs: £100.00

Certain procedural rules govern claims in the County Court.  A failure to follow those rules may result in the court imposing sanctions for non-compliance.  Details of rules relating to litigation can be found at www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules

If you are unable to pay the full balance within 14 days, please contact our client’s agent Robinson Way limited immediately on 0345 266 8876 to discuss an affordable payment arrangement. If you are unable to pay this account you must still contact our client’s agent Robinson Way Limited to discuss your options which may prevent legal action being taken.  Failure to respond to this letter will result in legal proceedings being issues without further notice.

Please see the reverse of this letter for details of how to make payment towards the above account.

Yours faithfully

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Waffle on Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:18 pm

Dont ignore.

Write them a letter explaining you have already conditionally accepted to pay providing they can provide the following documents, then list the documents you have requested already.

Then say, as stated above I am more than wiling to settle any matter providing you supply the following document.

This bits very important because they have a duty to provide these documents if you request them.

Follow up with........

I hereby request disclosure of the true copy of the original documents of title Birch v Treasury Solicitor (1951), Schmidt v Rosewood Trust Ltd (2003), redacted if necessary Webster v Ridgeway (2009).


Let us know how you get on.


For your piece of mind if they take you to court and you have already conditionally accepted the 'debt' and requested validation they are not in a good position. They will be deemed as wasting the courts resources....

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Waffle on Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:21 pm

Title the letter as a notice. You would write NOTICE underlined and in the centre of the page above the line where it says dear sir or madame.

Bottom of the letter make sure you write

notice to agent is notice to principle and notice to principle is notice to agent


Above their name and address, write strictly private and confidential.


Send special delivery if possible, its about £6 if not just send it recorded.

This needs to go to the person who wrote you last, e.g solicitors

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Waffle on Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:37 pm

It is also worth researching the case law you will be citing in your letter so you understand what you are doing and why you are making that request

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Tiggy on Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:57 pm

You could them a request for further information under the County Courts Pre Action Conduct Protocol.

What's the original debt for and approx. value?

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:59 pm

Thanks Waffle.
Drafting my own letter to a solicitor is extremely daunting, especially if I make a mistake or say something slightly out of place which they can pounce on.
I know nothing about legalities and just as the 3 letter downloads were a godsend is there something similar that I can use in reply to the solicitor? ie a standard letter or one that has been used successfully before?

I do recall seeing letters on the old forum but did not pay much attention to them as they didn't apply to me at the time. Tiggy's letter springs to mind but again, not sure if it was for this particular situation/application.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:00 pm

Hi Tiggy, it's for a credit card and just under 12k

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Waffle on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:09 pm

It is daunting, but we are all here together working as a team and are here to empower each other. Putting in the time and effort you already have should put you in a stronger position than 99% of people faced with these battles. Yes things don't always work out for us, but that goes for these parasites as well, things don't always go their way either. You could always draft your letter then post it here (with particulars left out such as name obv), we'll give you some feed back prior to sending if that helps ease your mind.

Do research those case law references I gave you.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Tiggy on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:22 pm

@joedalton wrote:Hi Tiggy, it's for a credit card and just under 12k
OK, send them the pre action conduct letter and a request for a copy of the agreement under Section 78.1 of the Consumer Credit Act - that request goes to whoever Robinson Way are working for (Hoist??) along with the £1 fee.

Please be prepared for the fact that these Solicitors are a set of Twats and they may have already have commenced proceedings.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:32 pm

Hi Waffle, I did research the three cases you mentioned. Birch v Treasury Solicitor (1951) is to do with an inheritance, Schmidt v Rosewood Trust Ltd (2003) also about an inheritance and a trust, Webster v Ridgeway (2009) is about an assault. I can't see the connection between these cases and my issue but as I said earlier, I am totally new to the legal system and really do not know how to proceed further.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:38 pm

Hi Tiggy, what is the pre action conduct letter and where can I find a copy please.
The solicitors are Howard Cohen, their client is HPH2 LTD (ex barclaycard) and the client's agent is Robinson Way.
So I presume that I have to send the letter (once I obtain a copy) to HPH2? That may be difficult as I don't have their contact details and have never had any correspondence from them.

Are HPH2 a debt buyer? Is that why is says (ex barclaycard) after their name?

I really appreciate yours and Waffles help

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Waffle on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:51 pm

They are all about assignments, I think you may have stumbled across the wrong case regards the assault.

The first two cases are about the assignment of the property, choose in action, debt, they are all the same thing. A debt is property, its just its also termed a choose in action or simply property. The principle in the first two case laws is that you have a right to see the documents of title that prove the DCA have been assigned the property, the debt, without this how can they prove that they have a right to the debt.

The third case is from when DCA's have challenged this and the ruling is that you are entitled to see a redacted copy, which is an edited copy of the documents that have transferred the debt, the property from the OC to the DCA. They almost never show this information and often don't have any proof that they have the rights to a debt.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:02 pm

Thanks for the clarification Waffle.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by actinglikeabanker's Ghost on Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:03 am

Hey,

@joedalton wrote:Thanks Waffle.
Drafting my own letter to a solicitor is extremely daunting, especially if I make a mistake or say something slightly out of place which they can pounce on.  
I know nothing about legalities and just as the 3 letter downloads were a godsend is there something similar that I can use in reply to the solicitor?  ie a standard letter or one that has been used successfully before?

I do recall seeing letters on the old forum but did not pay much attention to them as they didn't apply to me at the time.  Tiggy's letter springs to mind but again, not sure if it was for this particular situation/application.

Any daunting task that involves legalities, should always be approached and, explicitly stated as, 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE'.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:24 am

Thank you actinglikeabanker

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Tiggy on Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:26 am

This is a request for a copy of the agreement letter - don't mark it Without Prejudice - it may need to be used in Court, you'll also need to pay £1 fee.


Request under s.78 Consumer Credit Act 1974

Dear Sirs
Re: Account / Reference Number: xxxxx / xxxxx

With reference to the above agreement, I require that you provide me a true copy of the credit agreement.

I am aware that section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out clearly what is required to comply with my request and quote “shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it”. For clarification I require a copy of the agreement, any terms and conditions from the time when the agreement was executed, the current terms in force or in the alternative the notices of variation of each term as approved in Carey v HSBC Bank Plc and a copy of the cancellation notice if the agreement refers to “Your Right to Cancel” within it. I also require a statement as laid out also within section 78(1)(a-c). If there weren’t any terms and conditions then please confirm this in your response.

I am entitled to receive the information on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 per account, which represents the fees payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This request is a statutory request and should not be construed as any acknowledgment or payment towards any account.

I understand that Consumer Credit (Prescribed periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1569) at Regulation 2 sets out the required time frame for compliance with this request as being 12 working days from receipt.

In the event that you do not consider yourselves the “creditor” I direct you to s189 Consumer Credit Act and the leading case of Jones v Link Financial Ltd [2012] EWHC 2402 (QB) (22 August 2012) which confirms that assignees of an account are the creditor and must comply with statutory duties.

In accordance with the new FCA guidance, if the copy of the executed agreement is reconstituted, then I expect you to confirm this is the case and to confirm what steps were taken to provide this reconstitution as set out in the FCA handbook CONC 13.1.4 (2).

I look forward to hearing from you
Yours faithfully


Last edited by Tiggy on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Tiggy on Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:28 am

Example of a Pre Action Conduct letter, again don't mark it Without Prejudice as you may need to use it in Court

SENT BY RECORDED DELIVERY Your address

Your ref.:

Their address

Date

Dear Sirs,

Re: Your Client – xxxxx Limited
Pre Action Conduct - Request for Information

With regard to your letter dated xxxxx 2015, which stated Legal Action would be taken, I take this to be a Letter before Action under the above named Pre Action Conduct Protocol and as such I am responding accordingly.

As you have indicated you are acting on behalf of xxxxx Limited in this action, I assume you are authorised to accept service of documentation, therefore, please accept this request for Information sufficient to understand the claim being threatened and as such is in accordance Section 3 of the Pre Action Conduct, by way of Service Upon You and your client.

As I have never entered into any Legal Agreement or Contract with your client, for any monies or specifically for the alleged amount of £xxxxx; and I neither accept nor acknowledge the assertion any debt has been Legally and Absolutely Assigned to your client, I therefore, request the following documentation under Pre Action Conduct Section 6 (c) as proof of your Clients assertions of a Legal Obligation, to be provided to me within 40 days of the post marked date of this letter.

I. Pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974) a copy of the Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement, along with a copy of the original Terms & Conditions and any and all subsequent changes in said Terms & Conditions.

II. Statements of the Account referred to, including details of all payments made and calculation of how interest was charged against each item, leading to the Alleged Debt of £xxxxx.

III. Also, as this is an Alleged Debt, I believe Default Charges may have been applied to the Account and as such may be unlawful under the Unfair Consumer Contract Terms Regulations 1999, therefore, I would request details of each and every Default Charge applied to the Account (i.e. if the charge was for ‘Administration’ what Administration was undertaken to support the Default Charge) along with details of any Interest Charged against each Default Charge applied.

IV. In accordance with Section 87.1 Of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) a copy of the Default Notice from the original owners of the Alleged Debt and Certified Copies of how this was served upon me.

V. A copy of the Legal / Absolute Assignment of the Agreement, including a copy of a Duly Executed Deed of Assignment and / or Deed of Tripartite Novation; and

VI. In accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how I was served with the Alleged Legal Assignment.

VII. A copy of the Alleged Notice of Assignment sent by the original creditor to the Defendant and again, in accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how this was Served upon me.

Should proceedings commence against me and your client fail to provide each and every document requested, I will make an Application to the Court to Stay your Clients claim until the request is complied with and request the Court impose Sanctions against yourself and your client for failure to adhere to the provisions of the above mentioned Practice Direction.

Also please be aware, each document listed is required to provide absolute and legal proof of your client’s contention of a legal indebtedness towards them and again, should your client fail to produce said documentation and Proceedings Commence against me I will apply to the Court to Stay your Clients claim Until said documentation is received.

As a part of my defence I will re-request production of each and every document under an appropriate Civil Procedure Rule, along with a request under CPR Part 39.a (3.3) for the original of every document upon which you intend to rely be brought to any subsequent hearing for examination.

Please note, where I have mentioned a document and there is in your clients possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

I look forward to your response in due course.

Yours faithfully

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Candor on Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:51 am

I think that is a good request format Tiggy, but may i ask why you omitted an equitable assignment from that list ?

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Tiggy on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:06 pm

@Candor wrote:I think that is a good request format Tiggy, but may i ask why you omitted an equitable assignment from that list ?

Equitable assignment means they have the right to collect the debt but not the right to commence proceedings, for that they need absolute / legal assignment.



Equitable assignment

An assignment which does not fulfil the statutory criteria for a legal assignment. An equitable assignment may be made in one of two ways:

• The assignor can inform the assignee that he transfers a right or rights to him.

• The assignor can instruct the other party or parties to the agreement to discharge their obligation to the assignee instead of the assignor.

Only the benefit of an agreement may be assigned. There is no requirement for written notice to be given or received. The only significant difference between a legal assignment and an equitable assignment is that an equitable assignee often cannot bring an action in its own name against the third party contractor, but must fall back on the rules governing equitable assignments and join the assignor as party to the action.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:12 pm

Thank you so much Tiggy.
1) Do I send both the letters to the solicitor in the same envelope?
2) Do I sign the letters with my nornal name?
3) Do I sign on the bottom right or bottom left of the letters (as in the 3 letter process)?
4) How do I send the £1 payment? Is it by cheque, postal order or a £1 coin? I may be a bit paranoid here but if I send a cheque they will have my bank details but at the same time I will have proof of their accepting the payment. Clarification would be incredibly useful.
5) I noticed that in the first letter stating that the timeframe was 12 days and in the 2nd letter it was 40 days. Is this a conflict or is it asking for different information? Sorry to sound so ignorant but I really want to learn.

Once again, I really appreciate everyone's inputs here.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Candor on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:17 pm

That is useful to know ..thanks Tiggy.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by Tiggy on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:20 pm

@joedalton wrote:Thank you so much Tiggy.  
1) Do I send both the letters to the solicitor in the same envelope?
2) Do I sign the letters with my nornal name?
3) Do I sign on the bottom right or bottom left of the letters (as in the 3 letter process)?
4) How do I send the £1 payment?  Is it by cheque, postal order or a £1 coin?  I may be a bit paranoid here but if I send a cheque they will have my bank details but at the same time I will have proof of their accepting the payment.  Clarification would be incredibly useful.
5) I noticed that in the first letter stating that the timeframe was 12 days and in the 2nd letter it was 40 days.  Is this a conflict or is it asking for different information?  Sorry to sound so ignorant but I really want to learn.

Once again, I really appreciate everyone's inputs here.
1. No, Pre Action Conduct goes to Solicitors, request for agreement to Hoist but send a copy to the Solicitors
2. Yes
3. sign 'normally'
4. Cheque or postal order
5. 12 days is set within by the Consumer Credit Act regulations, after which the debt is unenforceable whilst the default remains. The 40 days is set by the County Courts pre action conduct protocol.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

Post by joedalton on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:24 pm

Thanks again Tiggy, but who is "Hoist". The solicitors are Howard Cohen, their client is HPH2 LTD (ex barclaycard) and the client's agent is Robinson Way.

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Re: Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

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