RobWay/Cohen - advice please?

waylander62 wrote:It is possible for them to wriggle out of providing the agreement based on that type of letter at this early stage and go ahead and issue a claim.

however the CCA states that a request can be made for a copy of the agreement, a statutory fee is payable (£1). Failure to comply with this official request under the act renders any agreement unenforceable until the request has been complied with.

So sending a request for the agreement separately as per the CCA, in my opinion, closes any doors the DCA might try to use to escape.

the courts will frown on any claimant issuing a claim whilst in breach of an official CCA request, even strike out the claim.

Much appreciated buddy and understood

waylander62 wrote:If you have already received a signed copy of the agreement then there isnt really any need sending a new one.

have you sent a SAR ?

any news on the default notice?

I've sent a SAR, but not heard anything back yet.
Rob Way haven't sent a copy of the Default Notice. I don't have one with my papers for this, but it was 2014 so it will be with some older papers I need to check through.
I was making a token payment to the OC for about 2 years and then I suddenly got a letter saying they had sold the account to Hoist and I should make the payment to Hoist instead. I stopped paying as I never made any agreement to pay Hoist for anything. So that is how I got to this point.

You should have received a default notice from the OC so double check. A SAR will rarely also provide you with the default notice (none of the banks / CC providers did when I sent a SAR...)

Ok. I need to send this off this week or I'll be out of time.

So I need to send:
- the letter I posted on the previous page (still not sure about the sig?)
- the reply form saying that I don't admit any of the debt and asking for the same info as I'm asking for in the letter
- I don't send the CCA request as they've already sent me the credit agreement, but I do ask for the credit agreement in the letter and reply form?

Is this correct? I really need to send this in the next couple of days and I want to make sure I have it right. I don't want to miss anything that might be important as it seems they have everything they need.

Thanks for your help!

Ok, looking back over some old threads it looks as though I do need to send the CCA request and it should go to Hoist.
I can't find a template or information about what form the CCA request should take. Can someone tell me where I can find this, or what it needs to say please?
Also do I sent this to Hoist or to Rob Way?
I'd be really grateful for a reply as I have to send this all off tomorrow!
Thanks.

send the cca request separate and include a £1 postal order keep it simple it just needs to be an official request so you can use what is written in number 1 of your original letter

you can then also send the rest of what is in the letter for other documents you are entitled to

and also send the part of the pre action forms that say you require more info.

send it to cohens as they are threatening court.

dont you already have a copy of the agreement though ?

waylander62 wrote:send the cca request separate and include a £1 postal order keep it simple it just needs to be an official request so you can use what is written in number 1 of your original letter

you can then also send the rest of what is in the letter for other documents you are entitled to

and also send the part of the pre action forms that say you require more info.

send it to cohens as they are threatening court.

dont you already have a copy of the agreement though ?

Thanks for the help and advice - I think I understand what I'm doing now!

I decided to send the CCA request for the agreement to Hoist anyway. I was taking another look at the copy they sent. The notes down the side are just about readable. I thought these were the terms & conditions, but after squinting at them under a bright light they seem to refer to terms & conditions on the back of the agreement. There's no t&cs on the back, just a stamp with some admin stuff. So they haven't actually sent what I asked for, so I thought I might as well request it again.
There's also no date on the agreement. There's a stamp that might be a date stamp, but it's very blurred. Shouldn't it be fairly important to have a definite date on the agreement?

Its been my experience that what they have sent you is probably all they have ,so important that you request a true copy. Its my guess you will get exactly the same again.
With one of mine all they can ever produce is in two separate halves ,they do not even have it on a single sheet.

Hi again.

Thanks for all of your help so far.

I've now got an update, so I'd be grateful if you could take a look and give me a bit of advice on what to do next.

Just over a year ago I received a "Pre Legal Assessment" from R-Way stating that they had enough evidence to take the case to court and were passing it to Cohen solicitors.

As advised I filled in the form they sent with the letter asking them for documentation and I sent a CCA request. I didn't here anything back from them until just recently.
I've now a letter from R-Way saying they have included all the info I asked for.

They have sent:

1. Copy of a covering letter from the OC stating that they have enclosed a copy of the "Historic and varied T&Cs".

2. Some printouts of statements. These look like they are straight from a database and not the form of statements sent to customers. There are a few of these from what seems to be random months a few years ago.

3. A short list of "Historical Transactions" on a separate sheet from a couple of years ago.

4. Some sheets of terms & conditions. These are a little bit weird-looking as they don't all seem to be part of the same set. They are definitely not what was attached to any original application in the form they've sent them here.

5. Copy of a "credit agreement". This is the same one they sent before. It looks like an application form. In varies places on it it says "application", but it actually says by the signature that it's a credit agreement. It's signed, but it doesn't seem to have a legible date. There is a "received" stamp, so that might be the date. It says there are terms and conditions overleaf - there aren't any. The reverse is a form for official use. The T&Cs they've sent separately might or not be the original ones. I can't see there's any way to tell, but like I said - the way they've actually presented these T&Cs they can't be the exact originals.

6. Customer financial statement and offer of payment form.

They haven't sent copies of any default agreement or notice of assignment as I asked for in the letter to Cohen solicitors.

R-way's covering letter says that this resolves my query and they are now waiting for my offer of payment. If they do not hear from me within 30 days they will resume collection activities.

So please can you advise if I should do anything now, or if I should just wait for their next contact? I've sent an SAR to the OC and waiting for the results of that. Should I also send a SAR to Hoist as they now own the alleged debt, to find out what they have? Or is it better to avoid any other contact with them?

As always - thanks so much for your help!

Who are R-ways? Never heard of them. Do they own the debt or are they simple acting as a debt collection agency for another company which owns the debt?

What was the last letter you sent R-Ways? A template letter? If so, letter 1, 2 or 3?

DCAs Mr Blue

Mrblue2015 wrote:Who are R-ways? Never heard of them. Do they own the debt or are they simple acting as a debt collection agency for another company which owns the debt?

What was the last letter you sent R-Ways? A template letter? If so, letter 1, 2 or 3?

Sorry - R-Way = Robinson Way. Acting for Hoist who bought the alleged debt from the OC.
The last letter I sent them was the Pre Action Conduct letter.

Ah the ones who make Jam

I have read every post again it’s quite confusing if I’m honest as you keep switching from mentioning Cohens to Robinsons.

So we have the Original Creditor (OC) - who is that?
Then Hoist - they bought the debt?
Then Robinsons - they are a DCA acting on behalf of Hoist, correct?
And where does Cohens come into this? A solicitor? You make out that Cohens would be acting on behalf of Robinsons but that’s not possible as Robinsons are only a DCA... IF Cohens is a solicitor, they would be acting on behalf of Hoist.

No idea why you send a CCA to the OC...

This is why we hang on about making sure you actually read and understand the templates before using them and selecting the correct ones and you are certain organised.

Also sounds like you already responded to a letter of claim / letter before action - who sent that type of letter and the accompanying form?

Did you send a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the OC in the end? You also need to check your credit file. Locate either the OC account or Hoist account and check the default date - sometimes this is just a month e.g. January 2014. Do that ASAP too because this debt may well be statute barred.

daveiron wrote:DCAs Mr Blue

Thanks Dave

Mrblue2015 wrote:Ah the ones who make Jam

I have read every post again it’s quite confusing if I’m honest as you keep switching from mentioning Cohens to Robinsons.

So we have the Original Creditor (OC) - who is that?
Then Hoist - they bought the debt?
Then Robinsons - they are a DCA acting on behalf of Hoist, correct?
And where does Cohens come into this? A solicitor? You make out that Cohens would be acting on behalf of Robinsons but that’s not possible as Robinsons are only a DCA... IF Cohens is a solicitor, they would be acting on behalf of Hoist.

No idea why you send a CCA to the OC...

This is why we hang on about making sure you actually read and understand the templates before using them and selecting the correct ones and you are certain organised.

Also sounds like you already responded to a letter of claim / letter before action - who sent that type of letter and the accompanying form?

Did you send a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the OC in the end? You also need to check your credit file. Locate either the OC account or Hoist account and check the default date - sometimes this is just a month e.g. January 2014. Do that ASAP too because this debt may well be statute barred.

Sorry if that was confusing. I was just trying to keep it fairly short

I'll start again from the beginning.

The OC was Barclaycard. I was making a token payment to them through a third party. Then I suddenly received a letter from them saying they had sold the account to Hoist and I must pay Hoist instead.
I stopped paying Barclaycard and didn't pay anything to Hoist as I have no contract of any kind with them.
I then received letters from Robinson Way saying they were acting for Hoist and demanding payment. I sent the three letters and estoppel to Robinson Way as advised by Tiggy and others on the old forum.
Every couple of months I got a letter (sometimes with a form for making an offer of payment) from Robinson Way. As advised on the old forum I ignored all of these.

Then just over a year ago I had a letter from Robinson Way saying they had enough evidence to take the case to court. I then received a "Pre Legal Assessment" from Cohen's solictors (acting for Hoist) to be filled in and returned.
That's when I started this thread to ask what to do next.

I was advised by Waylander to treat this as a letter before action. I sent back the form requesting more information with the Pre Action Conduct - Request for Information letter from this site and an official CCA request, all as advised by you and Waylander earlier in this thread.

I didn't hear anything for over a year from either Robinson Way or Cohen's solictors.
I've now received a letter from Robinson Way containing the copy of a credit agreement, some terms and conditions and some statements as I mentioned above.
They included an income and expenses form and expect my offer of payment within 30 days or they will resume collection activities.

So I'm asking if I need to send any reply to Robinson Way's latest letter, or do I wait and see what they do next?

Also - as Hoist now own the alleged debt, should I send an SAR to them to find out what info they actually have on me?

I hope that's a better explanation. And as always, thanks for your help.

(The default date is 2017 so not statute barred unfortunately.)

OK all understood now, sorry I’m a busy working family man and I just haven’t got time to re-read all posts (as well as me writing lengthy responses) hence a request for your (excellent!) summary.

I suspect that, as a result of your pre action conduct letter response to Cohen’s Letter Before Action / Letter of Claim, Cohen went back to their client (Hoist NOT Robinsons*) and they (Hoist) took ALL this time to send you some documents and STILL not the required evidence AND take a year, when they are supposed to take no more than 30 or 40 days. So they did in fact breach the Post Direction Pre Action Conduct and Protools... The fact they took so long should also prove to you that they know they can’t take you to court, as they haven’t provided all of the required evidence you demanded in your pre action conduct letter.

The good news is they haven’t applied to the courts yet. Why haven’t they? Because they KNOW their claim is not legally enforceable (as I said above, they have not provided sufficient evidence). But they won’t admit that to you of course

So you’re back to dealing with Robinsons. Send them letter 3 of the templates for DCAs AGAIN ie call it letter 4 if you will... You can play this ‘game’ all day long...

SAR: never send this to a debt purchaser or DCA. Only ever to the original creditor.

*Robinsons - in your case at least - is NOT a debt purchaser (Hoist is in your case). Robinsons are a DCA ie Debt Collection AGENT. As an agent, they have NO legal standing. As such it would have been Hoist who engaged Cohens NOT Robinsons.

Thanks MrBlue! I know everyone who gives advice here and on the old GOODF forum must be very busy with their own lives as well as taking time to help the rest of us. It's really appreciated. I'd be in all kinds of trouble without the help I've had here.

I'll send another Letter 3 to Robinson Way and see what happens next.

You’re welcome mate, it’s a REAL pleasure helping people fend off these scum bags...

I've been following this thread & I like it, although debt is not my forte, I can certainly use some aspects with utilities.

Thanks to Mrblue & DI.

LS

Glad to hear it mate, everyone is welcome to learn

Update...

I've now received a "Letter of Claim" from Howard Cohen solicitors acting for Hoist.
They've enclosed documents for completion which are - Information Sheet, Reply Form and Income and expenditure form.
This seems to be the same set of forms they sent July last year which I returned. Last year it was a "Letter Before Action", this time it is a "Letter of Claim". I'm not sure if there's a difference?
Last time I also sent a request for information under the Consumer Credit Act to Hoist with enclosed £1 fee. I also sent a Pre Action Conduct - Request for Information to Cohen solicitors. I didn't receive any reply either from Hoist or Cohen solicitors.
Should I send exactly the same again? With the forms filled in the same and the CCA request again? Or is there something different I should do this time?

As always, thanks for your help!

So that's now a letter of claim TWICE from the same (mickey mouse!) solicitors? In relation to the same alleged debt/account?

Do you have the Subject Access Request (SAR) documents from the original creditor ('OC')? If not, get a SAR over to the OC  ASAP...

have they already responded to a previous CCA request ?

if not then yes repeat what you did before, ask for documents you are entitled to and send back the forms.

i would also send a short extra letter, very simple one. remind them that you have already responded to a letter before action requesting documentation and that it was completely ignored, remind them of the date ( always handy to do this so the court can be made aware should it go that far )

Thanks for the advice Mr Blue and Waylander.

I checked back and realised that Robinson Way had eventually sent me some information from the last CCA request I sent.

Apologies if this is a bit long, but I want to get all the details together so I haven't missed anything out that might be important.

Last year I had a "Letter of Claim" from Cohen Solicitors (on behalf of Hoist) with Information Sheet, Reply Form and Income and expenditure form.
I returned the information sheet and a Pre Action Conduct - Request for Information to Cohen Solicitors and sent a CCA request to Hoist.
I didn't hear anything back from Cohen Solicitors.

This year (1 year later) I had a letter from Robinson Way (acting for Hoist).
With their letter they sent:
1. Copy of a covering letter from the Original Creditor (to Robinson Way) stating that they have enclosed a copy of the "Historic and varied T&Cs".

2. Some printouts of statements from a database with various dates.

3. A short list of "Historical Transactions" on a separate sheet dating from a couple of years ago.

4. Some sheets of terms & conditions. I have no idea if these would be the same as the original terms and conditions as those would have been part of a paper copy and these are digital printout.

5. Copy of a "credit agreement". They'd sent a copy of this before. It's a scan of a paper application form filled in by hand, signed and with an illegible date stamp. There are no terms and conditions attached as part of this original agreement.

I sent another copy of Letter 3 to Robinson Way, as advised by Mr Blue.
I didn't hear anything from them again until this week when I got another "Letter of Claim" from Cohen Solicitors. I've checked this against the "Letter of Claim" from them last year and it's completely identical, except for the sending date.

I have the SAR documents from the OC. These are lists of transactions in random date orders from a load of different account numbers (I asked them for just the disputed account info). It seems to be actually only two accounts but the account numbers have changed at some point. I think maybe every time they issued a new card the numbers changed. There's no copies of any letters or default notice with the SAR docs. There doesn't seem to be anything related to the account in dispute apart from some "copy statements" from the last 10 years.

So Robinson Way (for Hoist) did eventually (after a year) send something in response to the CCA request, but not what I asked for. Should I send them the same info on the form and letter with the same request as I did last time?

I hope all that makes sense! Thanks for your help!

just repeat what you did before,

had a quick read back through the thread, take a look at the statements and see when the last payment was made by you and check the outstanding balance at the time and the balance on assignment.

i read you said this defaulted back in 2013 !! that is 7 years ago !!