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Moon phases


RobWay/Cohen - advice please?

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Post by Mrblue2015 Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:15 pm

Haha no worries mate, lessons learned for all Smile

Keep us posted in terms of whatever BS / excuse they come up with next Smile
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Post by Musicbox34 Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:03 am

Latest update:

I've had a reply to my response to the forms and letter asking for the documents I sent in reply to the second Letter of Claim. Their reply this time is on headed paper from Hoist Finance for the first time and not from their agents Robinson Way who usually send the letters (all the same postal address though).

This time they've sent:
1. Copy of Signed credit agreement (again)
2. Final statements from the account (the copy statements they've sent before)
3. A page of "Historical Transactions" (these look like payments made after the account was closed, they've also sent these before)
4. A copy of the Notice of Assignment (this is the first time they've sent a copy of this)

They say they've sent a copy of the Terms and Conditions, but they haven't this time. The copy of the credit agreement has notes down one side, but reading the notes it says the T&Cs are on the reverse. There aren't any T&Cs on the reverse of the copy, just a form with tick boxes for their use in processing the application.

There's also the usual form for me to fill in and return with my financial details and my offer of repayment.

The letter says if they don't receive a response they will pass the account to their solicitors who may be instructed to take court action.

So pretty much the same as last time, with the addition of the Notice of Assignment. They don't mention the additional letter I sent to them (as advised by Waylander) pointing out that they have now sent me the Letter Before Claim twice and so far haven't sent all the documents I asked for. So far they haven't sent a copy of the Default Notice and there wasn't one with the SAR documents from the OC either.

I also had a reply back from the OC regarding the letter I sent as advised by Waylander, asking them to confirm they'd sent me everything in relation to the account for my previous SAR. The OC's reply said they had already sent me the documents for my SAR and they considered my letter to be a duplicate request, so they weren't required to respond to it.

I hope that all makes sense.... it's getting kind of long and messy by now with all these different letters.

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Post by Mrblue2015 Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:19 am

The good news is Hoist (the debt purchaser) couldn’t organise a p in a brewery. As you say, it's getting long and messy with all the letters but that's their fault. One minute Hoist (debt purchaser) is writing to you, then it's Cohen Solicitors (working on behalf of Hoist) etc etc...

The good news is the docs they have provided you with are absolutely not sufficient to legally enforce the alleged debt (and I won't say why on here in case Hoise/Cohen are trolling) and I have no doubt that someone like a Wayland62 would rip their claim to pieces.

If it were me, I would send the same letter Waylander62 described to you (see post Jan 18, 2021 10:45 am) but tweak it first to remind them that they have, yet again, failed to meet the Pre Action Protocol given that they have, YET AGAIN , failed to provide the financial instruments needed to substantiate their claim.

But let's see what Waylander62 says as he usually comes up with something far more 'clever'!
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Post by waylander62 Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:56 am

firstly it would appear that the OC dont have a copy of the default notice so that is very helpful.

it is getting beyond a joke with all the letters going back and forth but this is how DCA's work, try and wear you down.

its a pain i know but worth replying.

thank them for their most recent letter, tell them that they still have not provided all of the documentation requested nor an explanation as to why the missing documents are not required. As such they remain in breach of the pre action conduct protocol.

I must therefore refer you to my 2 previous responses to your 2 letters before claim. For the avoidance of doubt if you should pass this over to your Solicitor with instructions to take Court action and a Claim is issued through the courts then any Claim will be Defended and the Court will be made aware of your failure to adhere to the pre action protocol.

thats it keep it simple,

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Post by Mrblue2015 Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:57 pm

Totally agreed with Waylander62, on all points.
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Post by Musicbox34 Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:38 am

Thanks again MrBlue2015 and Waylander62 for taking the time to read through this and give advice. Really appreciate all your help.

I'll send off this next letter and wait for their next response.

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Post by Mrblue2015 Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:00 am

Morning all Smile

The way it seems to be going Musicbox34, they’re losing Wink Send off the letter and learn to forget about it as best you can in between letters. Part of their tactics is to make you worry / try and ruin your weekend etc. Notice your letter always seem to arrive on a Friday or Saturday...? Personally I used to not open any Friday or Saturday letters and put them out of site, waited until Monday to open them so that I could enjoy my weekend.

And you’re welcome. Happy to help so long as people are happy to help us to help them, i.e. respond clearly and accurately to all our questions and stick to the good advice you’re given.
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Post by Musicbox34 Sun May 16, 2021 2:40 am

Latest update: (just to keep things up to date here, so I can remember what I already posted and not get confused! Smile )

Another letter from Hoist Finance with another copy of the Notice of Assignment (they sent one in the previous letter).
This is their reply to my letter asking them again to send all the documents.
Their letter says they are waiting for original documents they've requested from the OC.

I guess I don't need to respond to this and I just wait for their next letter?

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Post by assassin Sun May 16, 2021 4:38 am

Make your response as an affidavit as this moves jurisdictions from legal to the superior lawful jurisdiction, and as a corporation they CANNOT rebut it as they are a dead entity and you win.

1) (insert their name) You are aware you should comply with the law andand maxim 4 of commercial law clearly states you have to express truth in the form of an affidavit, you have failed to do so.

2) This maxim is clear that the claim has to be true, correct, and COMPLETE; you have failed to provide complete paperwork, including the full accounting signed by the person taking full liability for this claim, incomplete commercial paperwork renders this claim as null and void.

If the paperwork is unsigned with a true wet ink signature then add this in as point 3
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Post by assassin Sun May 16, 2021 4:45 am

Suppressio veria or suggestion falsi – concealment of truth or a statement of falsehood.
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Post by Mrblue2015 Sun May 16, 2021 7:34 am

Musicbox34:

1) The last letter you sent was to Cohen Solicitors, correct?
2) And we are talking about the same alleged debt?

If so, follow the advice of Assassin and send his letter to Cohen.
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Post by Musicbox34 Tue May 18, 2021 1:40 am

Mrblue2015 wrote:Musicbox34:

1) The last letter you sent was to Cohen Solicitors, correct?
2) And we are talking about the same alleged debt?

If so, follow the advice of Assassin and send his letter to Cohen.

1. No. The last letter I sent was to Hoist Finance - the debt purchasers. Hoist Finance have now started writing to me directly, instead of through their agents Robinson Way who always sent the letters until fairly recently. I haven't heard from their solicitors (Cohen) since the last letter before action they sent (the second one I received from them). This letter I sent was the one I was advised to send to them by Waylander a few posts back asking why they still hadn't sent the documents I asked for.

2. Yes, it's the same alleged debt.

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Post by Mrblue2015 Tue May 18, 2021 7:13 am

OK follow the advice from Assassin / send to Hoist.
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Post by Musicbox34 Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:57 am

I've just received a third Letter of Claim from Howard Cohen Solicitors! Arrived today dated 7th July so I need to get the forms back asap.
Should I send a covering letter pointing out this is now the third time they've sent a Letter of Claim and the third time I've replied with the forms?
Is there anything else I should send?
I haven't heard anything else from Hoist Finance in the meantime.
Thanks as always.

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Post by Mrblue2015 Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:53 pm

Hi there,

Dated 7th July and arrives today? B******S...

OK well, with respect, I have no idea as to how you responded to their Letters of Claim before. As such, my next message shall be to provide you with very specific instructions which you must follow to the letter 't'! Smile
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Post by Mrblue2015 Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:09 pm

HERE FOLLOWS HOW TO RESPOND TO A LETTER OF CLAIM

You must reply within 30 days from the date shown in the Letter of Claim. So in your case, your response MUST get to them by 7th August (but don't cut it fine - get it to them by Friday 30th July I'd say...

You must follow ALL 4 steps below and NEVER use / refer to the word "debt":

Step 1. Filling out the 'Reply Form':
From the 'Reply Form' that accompanies their 'Letter of Claim' form, under 'SECTION 4' tick BOX I 'I need more documents or information'. Where BOX I goes on to say "I need a copy of" enter the following text that I have highlighted in bold:

As per the Practice Direction Pre-Action Conduct Protocol, please find enclosed TWO letters:
a) A formal demand for you to supply a true copy of any original, signed agreement along with a copy of the original Terms and Conditions upon inception of the agreement, as well as any subsequent changes.
b) A Request for Information demanding that you provide specific, additional documents in order to evidence your claim.

(DO NOT fill in any income and expenditure form if they also supply one of these - find your nearest bin...)


Step 2. Letters 1) and 2) - the 'enclosed letters' you will also send

For letter 1) write a headed etc letter (i.e. your address / the date / the solicitor's address) and state the following text that I have highlighted in bold:

This is an official demand for you to supply a true copy of any original, signed agreement along with a copy of the original Terms and Conditions upon inception of the agreement, as well as any subsequent changes, to be provided to me within SEVEN days of the date of this letter AND NO LATER. A fee is no longer required as per the DPA 2018 / the EU GDPR.

For Letter 2) again write a headed etc letter and state the following in bold:

This an official demand requiring you to supply me with true, legible copies of ALL of the following documents in order for your client to evidence their claim. To be provided to me within forty days of the date of this letter and no later: -

i) Any Default Notice served
ii) Any Notice of Assignment served
iii) Any Statements of account showing exactly how the alleged sums have become due
iv) Any Termination Notice
v) Any Sale Agreement / Deed of Assignment evidencing your clients title to bring a claim


Step 3. Now photocopy all of your above letters/forms:
i.e. the completed 'Reply Form' and your two enclosed letters 1) and 2). These copies are for YOU to keep.

Step 4. Send an A5 or A4 envelope containing the 'Reply Form' you have now completed and your two letters:
Post using the Royal Mail Signed For delivery. Or better still, using their tracked service, ensuring the envelope gets to the solicitor BEFORE the 30 day deadline. I recommend you send off your envelope with one week to go at the very latest (don't risk leaving it too late!).

If you do NOT carry out the instructions above - and in time - they will likely issue a claim and then it gets harder (but not impossible) to fight...
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Post by Mrblue2015 Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:10 pm

Also in the meantime: IF you haven't already sent off for a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the original creditor then get that sent off ASAP.
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Post by Musicbox34 Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:34 am

Mrblue2015 wrote:Also in the meantime: IF you haven't already sent off for a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the original creditor then get that sent off ASAP.

I replied to their previous letters of claim with the advice you and Waylander gave here - a few pages way back somewhere in this thread.... I know it's getting a bit epic now  Wink

I've sent the reply forms and letters to them for both the previous Letters of Claim they sent. The first was about 18 months ago and the second was 6 months ago. With the second one I also sent a covering letter as advising by Waylander pointing out I've already responded to their Letter of Claim before and they still hadn't provided the documents I asked for. So this is now number three! Is this normal? The last two times Cohen Solicitors didn't respond to the reply forms or letters, but then a few weeks later I got a letter from Hoist (Cohen are acting for them) with some statements and original agreement (not everything I asked for). I replied to Hoist saying they haven't sent what I asked for and they replied back to me saying they were getting in touch with the OC for the information. Then 6 months later I get another Letter of Claim from Cohen Solicitors....! This pattern seems kind of weird. When I got the second Letter of Claim Waylander said it was strange they sent the Letter of Claim again and now they sent it yet again. So I was wondering if there was anything different I should do or just carry on with the usual Letter of Claim replies?

I sent an SAR to the OC when I got the first Letter of Claim. The OC just sent me some copy statements, no other info. They didn't even provide me with the copy original agreement that they gave to Hoist!

Thanks for the help and I'll send the reply forms and letters off again and point out to them that this is the third time now. Rolling Eyes


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Post by Mrblue2015 Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:30 am

Cohen are ‘not normal’ as in they are useless like most of these glorified DCAs (in other words, they are not proper solicitors). I bet they don’t even sign their letters, am I correct?

My advice would be to respond correctly for the LAST time and then let’s see what happens. Then we’ll try an alternative response. But the simultaneous correspondence with Cohen and their client Hoist has to stop once and for. ONLY correspond with the one who is issuing the LoC (Cohen) and that’s it.


Last edited by Mrblue2015 on Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Mrblue2015 Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:02 am

Also at the top of your letter say:

This is the third time I have responded to a letter of claim (list the dates) and I remain in honour with the Practice Direction Pre Action Conduct protocol, unlike you”

All the best,
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Post by Musicbox34 Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:15 am

Thanks Mr Blue, I'll do that.

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Post by assassin Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:08 am

You could also state that you have clean hands and they have shown not to have clean hands in this matter and by not having clean hands they have no valid claim.

I would set dates, give them a date to respond to you and who is accepting full liability for their claims.

Just for information, only a person can make a valid and legitimate claim as a company is a corporation (corpse) and a dead entity cannot make a claim.
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Post by Mrblue2015 Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:20 am

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Post by Musicbox34 Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:06 am

I've received a reply from Hoist Finance (debt purchasers) after sending back all the forms and letters in response to their solicitors Letter of Claim. I never heard anything back from the solicitors as usual.

Hoist have sent a letter saying they enclose a copy of the Terms and Conditions I requested and they have put the account on hold while they wait for the rest of the documents.

There's a covering letter from the OC (Barclaycard) to Hoist that they've included. This says these are the requested Historic and Varied Terms and Conditions for the account in my name.

The documents they've sent are:

1. a cover sheet with my name and address with "Your right to cancel".

2. a scan or photocopy of a sheet of "Conditions of Use". This is mostly illegible and is probably a scan off an original paper application form, you can see the filing holes punched in the original. Any original documents would be over 30 years old by now, so all of them would be paper not digital.

3. three sheets of numbered "Barclaycard Conditions". The first sheet is a printout and the other two are are a scan from something else that looks much older. Although the numbers of the Conditions match up between the pages the second and third page are numbered page 1 and page 2 and are obviously not off the exact same document. I don't know if this means anything, but there's no way that these were ever attached to the original agreement in the form they've sent them, they've obviously been made up from at least three different sources. I've seen that they're allowed to use reconstituted agreements, but there's nothing to show this is the original document I asked for.

When I had the SAR documents from the OC there wasn't any of this included. The only info they sent me from this account were some copy statements. I wrote to the OC again last time Hoist sent me this info, as advised by Waylander, to make sure the OC didn't have anything else they hadn't sent me. The OC replied that my request was a duplicate so they didn't need to send me anything! So it seems they'll work a lot harder to find info for Hoist than they did for me  Rolling Eyes

Should I send any kind of reply now to Hoist, or wait and see what else they send?

As always - thanks for your help!

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Post by Mrblue2015 Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:20 pm

Any notice of assignment? Any default notice?
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