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Moon phases


Please help – Just received my first ever solicitor’s letter

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Post by Mrblue2015 on Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:15 pm

You’re welcome. They’re still valid and if they weren’t, rest assured one of the many good folk on here would have updated them.
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Post by joedalton on Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:02 pm

Thanks again, much appreciated.

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Post by onak on Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:00 am

This is outrageous, your name/debt is getting passed around to the highest bidders (probably about 20 quid).
I would unleash and write back to them and say I wrote to you after you sent a formal demand to me years ago without going through due process, I gave you 40 days to supply me everything you have on me within the Data Protection Act deadline, You don't have it. Day 40 been and gone. If you continue to contact me I will make a formal demand for the insurance policy and claim that you have already been paid out for in my name as is my right under the Data Protection Act that you are in breach of.

I mean, that's what i would do. These people are sending out that letters to hundreds of people. Be just as threatening back.

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Post by Mrblue2015 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:41 am

True onak but these scum bags do not care.

However, the pre action conduct letter + separate, dedicated request for a copy of the CCA and Ts&Cs (with £1 fee) are a legally recognised approach (as per pre action conduct protocol). Now we’ll see if they back down...
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Post by joedalton on Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:31 am

Thanks onak, I agree with your sentiments but we need to fight these guys with their own game as Mrblue states. The more times we are ignored, the stronger our case down the line. Let's see what happens.

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Post by Stevro on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:10 pm

@tattyboggle wrote:

The 3 letter process was followed and an estopple sent, why is this not enough of a defense in itself?
Why can we not respond by stating the other side was given reasonable time to comply with the requests and they didn’t? Or send solicitors a copy of the 3 letters and estopple sent at the beginning of the process as evidence?

Is the requested information in the 3 letter process a legal requirement on the other side or not?

They just seem to ignore the letters, estoppel and start legal proceedings.

I’m really not clear on the purpose of the 3 letters if they are simply ignored by the other side and that fact is never used in any defence. Why not just go straight in with a pre action letter as posted previously?

Always appreciated.

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble and I'm happy to be corrected, but the 3 letters have never been used successfully in court. I speak from bitter experience - see my help required with CCJ thread.

What the 3 letters do, in my opinion, are to show you're a tough case to pursue. 99.9% will admit their debt or never respond to letters from banks and DCAs, so are won by admission or default.

HSBC have their own internal litigation department and were eventually happy to take it all the way with me.

I had asked on here for a lawyer sympathetic to our cause. I contacted the chap recommended who will fight on the accuracy of the contract, the T&Cs, default notice etc but he refused to even engage me in fighting with the 3 letters. Quite frankly, he would be embarrassed to stand before a judge and argue our points from the 3 letters.

Now, I don't say they don't work as I have £45k+ still outstanding to around 8 other banks. But they won't stand up in court. They may be based in fact but a judge will accept a reconstituted agreement as proof and don't required an original copy.

Once it gets to court, your defence should be handled by a pro and based on contractual or procedural inaccuracies.

My 3 letter defence was submitted and accepted by the court i.e. they didn't throw out the case. It took a year to finally get to court, but was shot down. Last Fri actually. "You took out credit. The bank facilitated credit (as I argued I created the money) and you spent it. Now you must pay it back." said the judge.

I don't want to piss off any mods here, but I see success stories but none in court using the 3 letters.

Please don't ban me!


Last edited by Stevro on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:14 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Typos)

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Post by LionsShare on Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:25 pm

even though debt is NOT my main area what I will say after being in touch with others who are in difficulty & I have also found to my cost there has been a definate clamp down on this type of activity all over.

There seems to be a blanket "ban" on the populus, courts, dca(s), etc totally ignoring everything & the whole system is now going out of whack to stop what we are doing.

In other words we are all being crushed, someone who contacts me has problems well over a year something with his/her car legally, has offered to pay the court, dca & even coppers direct - no contact to him/her will be entertained by any of these, they are going for the car as collateral I think so from seeing this & other events, its not that the 3 letters don't work more over we are not being allowed to win.
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Post by LionsShare on Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:32 pm

it would appear its total theft of property assets & cash.
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Post by daveiron on Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:35 pm

Hi stevro,

The 3 letters are not a defense by themselves,they are requests for documentation .
You stated that you failed to submit your defense on time and their solicitor refused them.

I still firmly believe that presumption is the way to go, It was a presumption that caused you
to lose. The presumption was that what they produced was PROBABLY something like what you
signed, you were unable to rebut that ,therefore you lost.
You could have made several presumptions of your own and provided factual evidence to support
them and which they would have been unable to rebut ,as shown by them not having the original
agreement amongst others . I note someone posted that the judge was descretely trying to help
you ,I remember someone on the old site used to spout that same BS. The judge could have set
back the hearing date if he was indeed trying to help you .I know that for a fact as It happened
to me.
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Post by Mrblue2015 on Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:49 am

From my experience and that of many others, the letters work in relation to Debt Purchasers and DCAs. The bank letters have also worked for me in that it caused them (several banks in my case) to sell on the debts. It’s is VERY unusual to end up in court with a bank and if you do (and as DI infers earlier) you have to have everything 100% in order and on time (I suspect they capitalised on that failing with you).
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Post by Mrblue2015 on Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:28 am

To add to my last post and as DI points out. Remember, the letters are simply requests for information (which we are entitled to see). And depending on how little they have (which is mostly always the case) the DPs give up eventually / sell on.

They sometimes they go down the solicitor (often in-house) route initially just 'scare' you (in my opinion) but you can still treat them as a DCA (and use the respective letters) until if / when they issue a letter before claim.

When you then formally respond (to a letter before claim) it is very likely - as has been the case with others on this site - they will give up as there is no point them going to court without any or enough documents - as the court HAS to work on documents. And it's a risk (as in waste of money) for a DP to take you to court knowing they WILL lose if they do not have sufficient documentation.

Remember, these scum bags purchase alleged debts from OCs for pennies in the pound. As such, they will most like lose out financially. The only other reason I can see a DP still risking taking someone to court is to set an example. No other logic too it as they have to LEGALLY prove an alleged debt is owed, end of.
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Post by Stevro on Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:51 pm

I hear what you're saying but that would imply that every single person who has has success with 3 letters is because the banks/DCAs couldn't produce the original contract and gave up after threatening court. And that I was simply unlucky to be the only person they have ever taken to court, and lost as my full defence was late, which luckily they knew so risked going to court in my case?

My defence was indeed considered which was based on the 3 letters; the additional materials on money creation were excluded. Remember I had to submit a defence before the strike out was applied for.

I would feel no more confident of winning even if everything I relied on was accepted as evidence. It was simple - you signed, you spent, you pay.

The judge even agreed banks create credit, not lend money.

If they can't produce the contract it is irrelevant, unless you claim you never signed their contract. The proof is that money moved in and out of your account and you never contacted the police about this fraud - if it wasn't you using the account.

As I said, I found a UK case that acts as precedent that allowed a reconstituted agreement to be submitted as proof of contract. If you think I'm making it up, perhaps I can find it.

HSBC had a lawyer claim they never sold or traded my note or received insurance. The lawyer asked what difference that would make, but the judge still asked him to answer. A judge will accept the word of a lawyer acting for a client. What a victory it would be to prove them wrong on the securitisation issue, but we can't. Unless they admit it. But then all they have done is sold an IOU to an investor which isn't illegal.


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Post by Mrblue2015 on Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:32 am

@Stevro wrote:I hear what you're saying but that would imply that every single person who has has success with 3 letters is because the banks/DCAs couldn't produce the original contract and gave up after threatening court.

That’s not what I said and nor implied. And I never said it was about only producing an agreement. Respectfully, I suggest you read my last two posts again for exactly what I meant Smile Again, the letters have worked as a very effective starting point for many 100s of people and in many cases an effective ending point too and this success goes back to at least early 2010 when the site started or thereabouts.
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Post by Stevro on Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:40 pm

I stand corrected. In three years I haven't see anyone post a story of going to court and winning with the 3 letter defence. I'll look harder.

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Post by Mrblue2015 on Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:55 pm

Again, you’ve misunderstood. I can’t keep telling you you’ve misunderstood.
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Post by Lopsum on Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:27 pm

3 letters are not a defence, if you do end up in court you need to be there to defend against the presumption that whatever they produce instead of an original is legit. You will have been sent the copy, you should check that the copy sent is the same as the copy they bring to court, you can inspect it in court . If any of it is illegible or shows to be different or has the wrong info then you use that against them , present your presumption that they made some error and are unwhittingly about to embroil the court in a fraud .
This forces the judge to think twice about accepting the copy , he cant just presume that it is legit if given reason .
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t47-court#390
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Post by mongoose on Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:32 pm

reading other posts waylander has experience of these matters. Is he still around?

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