Council Tax

by **LionsShare** Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:44 am

Raconteurs last Tuesday. FFD 1:31:00 - 1:40:00 in, 1 presenter presents evidence from research over c'tax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3l67qcr3no

The jist is simple, when going in to court to challenge c'tax you will use this point, that & the other that proves you know somat about THIER 'LAW'. It gets thrown back & 1 very simple point is raised & that's why we are all charged c'tax.

T.H.E.Y. state 'well your property could be or is capable of being a business in the furture'.

The case is retired & finished. For those that really know about c'tax statute(s) - far more than I, is it possible we the people can probably never win doing it THEIR way? We will always be shafted over c'tax in a bent corrupt system?

Comments please.

LS

by **daveiron** Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:19 pm

How about a Stat Dec that this property in not used in commerce.
But of course as you say its corrupt to the core.

by **LionsShare** Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:26 pm

daveiron wrote:How about a Stat Dec that this property in not used in commerce.
But of course as you say its corrupt to the core.

Excellent point DI but someone with more knowledge than I would have to elaborate more.

by **LionsShare** Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:48 pm

FFD 1:24:00, OMG - a solution for c'tax? lets hope so: stop this sh*t on the most pieceful manner possible? MOB does put forward quite a lot of interesting ideas & possible solutions? What do you all think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK-il4m2qxE

by flyingfish Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:43 am

Where does it come from, the idea that Council Tax should only apply to commercial property? It is not what the LGFA appears to say, and I have never seen anyone point to an alternative definition.

by **LionsShare** Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:04 am

FF please could you comment on what this could mean?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/14/section/3

3 Meaning of “dwelling".

(1)This section has effect for determining what is a dwelling for the purposes of this Part.

(2)Subject to the following provisions of this section, a dwelling is any property which—

(a)by virtue of the definition of hereditament in section 115(1) of the M1General Rate Act 1967, would have been a hereditament for the purposes of that Act if that Act remained in force; and

(b)is not for the time being shown or required to be shown in a local or a central non-domestic rating list in force at that time; and
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rating list
From https://www.valuationtribunal.gov.uk/jargon-buster-faqs/jargon-buster/

Rateable value
Valuation Officers determine a rateable value for every non-domestic property in the country. This is used as the basis for the amount of rates that a ratepayer must pay. The rateable value is based on an estimate of the annual rent for the property, that it might reasonably be expected to let for, on the open market, on the antecedent valuation date, subject to various assumptions.

please could you explain what 'non-domestic' might mean from Sect3 2(b) lgfa 1992 above?

by flyingfish Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:51 am

Sure. The terminology used there goes round in circles, but it gets there in the end. It could certainly have been more clearly worded to avoid double negatives but we can step through it as follows ..

(1) Non-Domestic means not domestic, I think that's clear enough.

(2) The clause you mention says ..
"(b) is not for the time being shown or required to be shown in a local or a central non-domestic rating list in force at that time; and"

(3) Any sort of list described as "non-domestic" is going to be a list of things that are "non-domestic", and as we've seen in (1) that means not domestic.

(4) Taking this together it means a normal home which I hope we all agree is "domestic", is not "non-domestic" and therefore won't appear on that rating list.

I suppose in any given case you could actually look on the rating list and see if your property appears there. If it's a normal house or flat used as someone's home, whether rented or owned, then it won't appear. But if the owner started to use that same property as for example a holiday let, then it is no longer domestic and would be subject to Rates rather than Council Tax.
https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/business-rates-find/list-properties

Hope that's reasonably clear, let me know if not.

by **LionsShare** Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:32 am

Hi FF,

thanks for the link, I have tried the post code given by the local council for c'tax demand received & it does not appear.

Reading that stated above - sect3 2(b) would c'tax & business rates not be 1 & the same thing? Would c'tax only apply to a non-domestic dwelling?

Please note am not legally trained & just simply asking questions.

by flyingfish Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:50 am

LionsShare wrote:Reading that stated above - sect3 2(b) would c'tax & business rates not be 1 & the same thing?

They are alternatives, business rates apply to some properties, council tax applies to others. Still others may have neither if they don't meet either definition.

Would c'tax only apply to a non-domestic dwelling?

Council tax applies to domestic properties, not to non-domestic.

This is all going by what's written in the LGFA. As I posted earlier I don't know what is behind the idea that council tax applies only to non-domestic. It may just be that someone misunderstood that clumsy wording and jumped to the wrong conclusion, then the idea has been passed around without question ever since. I suspect the idea will continue to circulate irrespective of facts, partly I think because CT is a much hated tax and people would love for there to be a loophole.

by **LionsShare** Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:29 pm

flyingfish wrote:I don't know what is behind the idea that council tax applies only to non-domestic. It may just be that someone misunderstood that clumsy wording and jumped to the wrong conclusion,

you may be correct.

flyingfish wrote:I suspect the idea will continue to circulate irrespective of facts, partly I think because CT is a much hated tax and people would love for there to be a loophole.

Would I be correct in assuming without LGFA92 there would be no c'tax? if so the LGFA92 creates the liability. Then the assumption also the LGFA92 creates the ability to lie.

There is really no debt just simply 'here's a bill, pay it'?

by flyingfish Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:16 pm

Without LGFA 1992 we'd still have the Poll Tax (Community Charge) which on balance was even worse.

by **LionsShare** Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:43 pm

from my memory as the gov't of the day wanted poll tax (& maggie - the bitch) gone, then its pure speculation that tax would still be on the statute books.

by **LionsShare** Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:08 pm

LionsShare wrote:Would I be correct in assuming without LGFA92 there would be no c'tax? if so the LGFA92 creates the liability. Then the assumption also the LGFA92 creates the ability to lie.

There is really no debt just simply 'here's a bill, pay it'?

Its the same for utilities although that will take some comprehension. Sooty waves his magic wond & presto debt is created along with a pack of total lies.

We are being lied to all the time by the 'State', c'tax, utilities, CV19 BS, & here is another - posted before example - of what I mean:

don't forget webster report in about 1 hr 8pm:

by **LionsShare** Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:40 pm

Just thought I'd ask the question?

don't suppose I'll get an answer? You never know!

by **LionsShare** Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:56 pm

here's a comment I had forgotten about, by MIKKY FINN, its further down in the comments from the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_OgPzA-EE4&lc=UgzgiLrEuRGXn931ds54AaABAg

by flyingfish Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:24 pm

I'll just revise my earlier comment if that's OK, since I didn't really answer your specific question ..

Would I be correct in assuming without LGFA92 there would be no c'tax? if so the LGFA92 creates the liability. Then the assumption also the LGFA92 creates the ability to lie.

Yes you're correct, LGFA 1992 created Council Tax so without it Council Tax would not exist. Similarly the provisions of LGFA 1992 are used to decide who is liable. I'll leave your last point as I am not convinced there is any mileage in re-engineering words. To my mind if you change a word, it becomes a different word, with potentially a different meaning.

by **LionsShare** Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:48 pm

FF glad you liked it? Very Happy

by **urchinatheart** Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:35 pm

How many people would genuinely happily pay this tax if they knew
a) where their money (energy) went;
and b) that no theft or imprisonment would follow non-payment;
i wonder ?

by Msyms Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:08 am

Ive heard that council tax is very difficult to cancel & it can take a few years & mayb get put into prison if you dont pay,is this true? Thanks in advance for your reply.

by **daveiron** Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:21 am

May i suggest you keep an eye on the Observation Deck channel on YT
his work on council tax is due in about 2 weeks.

by Msyms Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:02 am

Hi,do you have a link for this as i csnt seem to find it..i watched a video last night on “get out of debt free” i cant find the original site so has it changed? Jon who created the site said there was lots of help & templates available,i cant find anything myself,any help would be welcome

by **LionsShare** Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:15 am

Msyms wrote:Hi,do you have a link for this as i csnt seem to find it..i watched a video last night on “get out of debt free” i cant find the original site so has it changed? Jon who created the site said there was lots of help & templates available,i cant find anything myself,any help would be welcome

http://getoutofdebtfree.org

after trying this you will get redirected, its gone!

by **LionsShare** Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:18 am

Msyms wrote:Ive heard that council tax is very difficult to cancel & it can take a few years & mayb get put into prison if you dont pay,is this true? Thanks in advance for your reply.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/14/contents

if you are having problems with c'tax get help as soon as... If you default THEY will come after you & you will be 'done' over, its NO joke, its in the Act you may be sent to prison for none payment.

Please research the legal meaning of 'may'.

by Msyms Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:46 am

I was lead to believe its all a fraud? There is a letter process to complete,some say prison & goods taken away when you dont pay but some say they beat the council,im not sure what yo believe cant seem to find free help,the link above want money!

by **LionsShare** Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:58 am

Msyms Hi,

As I have stated in the posts in this thread, c'tax is nothing other than extortion - pay up or else - its no different to the local mafia or mobsters running the show. The only difference might be no broken arms & legs. The LGFA92 is put in place so that if you don't pay its 'oo look we have a set of rules (legislation) to do people over for none payment'.

Yes without doubt its fraud but, its like competing with the village idiot - the idiot is always right. We will always lose in this bent, rigged, corrupt system.

The following is simple but difficult to get 1's head around - the GBP - '£' is a promise to pay, so by defintion its NOT money & we all NEVER pay for anything, we all work for nothing, get everything for free & yet people get put through all sorts of hell for nothing.

It starts with reading a bank note - cash instrument - say a £5 note, where it states 'BANK OF ENGLAND' underneath it states, 'promises to bearer on demand the sum of £5'. Question to you Mysms what exactly is the 'sum of £5'?

LS

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