DSAR

Thanks flyingfish, I don't think they will take legal action but I will be prepared.

Thanks Daveiron, interestingly in their letter they said that if I was not happy with their response then I should report them to the ICO. I told them I don't have a contract with them and will do that again when I next write to them, I am going to wait for them to write to me first. That's right the OC agreed no debt exist by tacit acquiescence but still claimed I owed a debt and passed it on to the DCA.

Will report back, have a lovely evening.

Good afternoon,

I believe we can only ask the DCA/OC if they have the original note in their possession so that we can redeem it because we can't have the note before it has been redeemed.

However the NOCAs ask for "A true and certified copy of the Original Agreement. ( I cannot accept a photocopy)"

This is different to the original signed document but it is a copy that has been verified and signed by a banking staff, is that correct?

So, we are just asking IF they have it, and if they have it then they must send a copy of it for us to inspect, then we can arrange to redeem it with them. Is that right?

We are asking for a certified copy because otherwise they would just say, "yeah, of course we have it, just pay up and we'll send it."

Am I understanding this right?

Many thanks

Yes correct ,someone must certify its a true copy. As they will not have it ,who is going to put their name to anything ? Not to be confused with the photo copies they send, as they could produce endless copies of these.
You want a certified copy so you can go forward with the redemption ,(once again something they cannot do).
This is one of the reasons the notices never get addressed ,no one will take personal liability by putting their name to anything.

My debt has been taken on by a DCA. I requested the "note," and that I need verification that they have it and an offer to redeem the note.

Firstly, they sent statements from the creditor then I received several replies which I will paraphrase:

Letter 1:

- "We will get the required documentation from our client. We received instruction in good faith."

My thoughts: Good faith is not a legal document proving any debt

Letter 2
- "We have requested the documents and will forward when it is received. Until our client can supply the necessary documentation, although the balance remains the same, it is unenforceable."

How can a debt balance remain the same and be unenforceable?

- "We can still refer the balance to a credit reference agency."
My thoughts: Go on then...

- "We aren't seeking an agreement but have asked payment to be made via a payment plan"
My thoughts: Sounds like trying to get an agreement to me...

- "If you think we can't ask for repayment, please provide specific details as to why not."
Because you don't have the note, therefore, as you said it is unenforceable?

- "Please provide details of any concerns regarding the liability of this account."
???

Letter 3

- "The legal team of our client has already contacted you with regard to the documentation, because you did not speak to them on the phone, they won't provide anything else until you contact them to discuss your original DSAR, account is now on hold (again)."

The DSAR was requested 2 years ago, i think, which was denied due to alleged fraud on the account which they wanted me to call them about

But what you are saying is: you do not have the necessary documents to prove the claim, you have never seen the necessary documents, your client won't even provide you with the necessary documents - therefore it is totally unenforceable?


Is it worth replying? I think they have basically said, "we don't have any proof of a debt and we can't enforce it," and they are just calling my bluff. Should I request the same documents 2 more times just out of formality? Or should I say, thanks for confirming you don't have, have never seen and your client doesn't have them either...?

Thank you

sounds like a DCA for the OC,

letter 3 says account is on hold, reply if you wish all i would reply is

cheers for your latest letter, the account is on hold, please inform me when it is no longer on hold

or words to that effect.

Thanks.

It comes off hold on 10th feb

When people say you must phone them, i always respond with 'I only correspond via Royal Mail for evidential purposes'

Thanks for your replies.

Below is the body of my next notice, I would appreciate if anyone can point out any pitfalls or flaws in my response. I know you haven't seen the previous couple of letters but just wanting to make sure I am still on the right track:

I sent them the first NoCA (editted for my specific purpose). DCA replied saying they need to get it from their client, then said I needed to contact their client and neither have provided anything (they sent 3 seperate letters).

DEAR CEO

You were unable to answer my questions to my complete satisfaction and provide necessary documentation requested. However, again, I offer to pay the balance in full, conditional upon your responses to the following questions, which are the product of your previous responses to my questions regarding the necessity to see the physical and original wet inked security to substantiate your claim:

Your letter dated (2nd letter received), implied that you do not have in your possession the physical and original wet inked signed security?

1. Please confirm does X debt collector have in their possession the physical and original wet inked security? Please answer under your personal liability.

Your letter dated (1st letter received, suggested that you have never seen the physical and original wet inked security and were acting simply on “good faith.”?

2. Please confirm what you mean by “good faith”? Please answer under your personal liability.

Your letter, dated (2nd letter received), said that you “have requested the necessary documentation,” (the original and physical wet inked security) from your client, because you did not have it, and until they are able to provide it to you, the alleged debt is unenforceable. Your letter dated (3rd letter received) suggested you have been unable to obtain the “necessary documentation” from your client and therefore do not have the necessary documentation to forward to me.

3. Therefore, please confirm, have your client been unable to provide you with the physical and original wet inked security? Please answer under your personal liability.

4. Please confirm, if your client have not been able to provide the necessary documentation, is the alleged debt still unenforceable? Please answer under your personal liability.

In my last notice, I requested that if you are in possession of the physical and original wet inked security, then you should kindly forward a ‘True or Certified copy’ of the wet inked security for my inspection, and to provide the name of the man or woman who has first hand knowledge and attests to its authenticity under their full personal liability.

5. Please confirm, if you do not have in your possession the physical and original wet inked security then you are unable to forward a ‘True or Certified copy’ of the wet inked security for my inspection, and you are unable to provide the name of the man or woman who has first hand knowledge and attests to its authenticity under their full personal liability? Please answer under your personal liability.

In my last notice, I stated that if you possess the original and physical wet inked security then we can make an arrangement to exchange the security, in its original condition, for payment of the alleged sum owing, so that it can be cancelled and destroyed by myself.

6. Please confirm, if you do not possess the original and physical wet inked security then we are unable to  make an arrangement to exchange the security, in its original condition, for payment of the alleged sum owing, so that it can be cancelled and destroyed by myself? Please answer under your personal liability.

Once again, if you are ever able to possess the original and physical wet inked security please forward a ‘True and Certified’ copy for my inspection and provide the name of the man or woman who has first hand knowledge and attests to its authenticity under their personal liability. If I am satisfied with the authenticity of the necessary documentation then we can make an arrangement to exchange the security, in its original condition, for payment of the alleged sum owing, so that it can be cancelled and destroyed by myself. Please note, there is no dispute, I am conducting my due diligence so that I know exactly what I am paying for.

With reference to your letter dated (3rd letter received). I have contacted your client via Royal Mail on more than four (4) occasions, whereby I have offered to pay any alleged debt on condition that your client confirm whether they have in their possession the physical and original wet inked signed security. And, if they do then they should forward a ‘True or Certified’ copy for our inspection. After which we would be able to make an arrangement to exchange the security in its original condition, for payment of the alleged sum owing, so that it can be cancelled and destroyed by ourselves. As no response, they are in tacit agreement that they do not possess the necessary documentation there is no such debt. I always keep contact via Royal Mail for evidential purposes, (all notices have been sent to your client via Royal Mail signed for and tracked, all copies of notices have been safely stored for future reference.) Since then, your client appear to have instructed you.

SIGNED X


Thanks SO MUCH

Just a couple of small suggestions; rather than refer to my last or second notice etc i would notice put dated xxxx

You sent a DSAR to the DC , they cannot say they are waiting for the OC , they must have some of your data ,however little ,insist they provide all they currently have.
if not complaint to ICO will follow.

So the DCA sent a couple more letters and then closed the account and it went back to the OC. WOOHOO!

The OC now calling me and sending me letters again. I was thinking I should just ignore them as i've already sent them 4 NoCAs and they just ignored them. It was much easier to deal with the DCA.

Or send a letter saying simply:

"All contact via Royal Mail, as previously requested, otherwise this is harassment, however this has been dealt with my the CEO"

Or send a letter to the OC saying:

"Your letter indicates that you will discontinue correspondence with myself. However, you cite security concerns as grounds for not releasing requested data, yet the same data was provided to a Debt Collection Agency, so why can't I see my own data, but a third party can?

When the Debt Collection Agency intervened, I offered full payment on the condition that they furnish me with the necessary documentation to substantiate their claim and enable me to conduct my due diligence. Specifically, I requested a true or certified copy of the signed security agreement. Just as the Debt Collection Agency is obligated to verify the details of any debt they are collecting, I must ensure the validity of any debt I am asked to settle.

Unfortunately, they were unable to provide the requisite documentation to render the alleged debt enforceable, affirming that it was indeed unenforceable.

During this process, the Debt Collection Agency deferred to you, the OC, for information, yet you, the OC, also failed to furnish the necessary documentation to substantiate the alleged debt. This outcome was unsurprising, as I have previously requested such documentation on more than 4 occasions, by way of NoCA.

Without a true and certified copy of the signed security agreement, there is no debt to be paid. I kindly request that you provide said document, free from any endorsements, so that I can discharge the note, if not, then you must cease and desist to contact me, otherwise is considered harassment."

Something a long those lines...

Whatcha think, at this point, I just want to lower my postage costs since, I don't see this ever being enforceable regardless of who is sending the letters.

Thanks again!

You could try a FINAL-NOTICE ; Take notice you have been requested via your CEO on (4) four occasions to provide documentation to evidence your claim that i owe a debt to your corporation .
as of the date of this final Notice , said documentation has never been provided .Therefore no further communication will be responded to unless it contains in its entirety the the evidence requested.
You have previously been informed that you only have my permission to contact me via Royal Mail ,as a result of your failure i now require you to delete my telephone number from your database.
Your continued contacts are now causing me alarm and distress ,thereby breaching the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
Whilst there is no justiciable controversy ,should you wish to bring this matter to court ,I will be more than happy to ask the questions your CEO will not provide answers to.

daveiron wrote:You could try a FINAL-NOTICE ; Take notice you have been requested via your CEO  on (4) four occasions to provide documentation to evidence your claim that i owe a debt to your corporation .
as of the date of this final Notice , said documentation has never been provided .Therefore no further communication will be responded to unless it contains in its entirety the the evidence requested.
You have previously been informed that you only have my permission to contact me via Royal Mail ,as a result of your failure i now require you to delete my telephone number from your database.
Your continued contacts are now causing me alarm and distress ,thereby breaching the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.
Whilst there is no justiciable controversy ,should you wish to bring this matter to court ,I will be more than happy to ask the questions your CEO will not provide answers to.

Sent and received. Letters seem to have stopped but they have called every day. Ive blocked their number so it doesnt connect. They leave an automated message on the answer phone. Not sure if this is just an automated message that they have not turned off.