Fighting a small claims fine

by BY834 Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:23 pm

Hi,

9 months ago I started a small claims for breach of contract against an association I was a member of. This started 15 months ago. Anyway, on 27th Feb I lost my claim, as the defendant brought a barrister and solicitor to the hearing (I'm 95% certain paid for by the Borough council). The judge also awarded the defendant £600 for my 'unreasonable behaviour' (this was an FU decision - I actually behaved very well throughout). I walked into a trap. I only started to fully learn about the BC and magicians courts in January, so I had a feeling it wasn't going to end well. 2 days ago I received the order to pay the costs.

Yesterday I sent a letter to the court which I have attached (all details relating to me, court & case no were removed). Like most of us I am sick of the scum running the country, and I am not prepared to hand over £600 without standing up for myself. I have a horrible feeling my letter may have been naive (1st time involved in something like this) and may land me in more poo. I have until 20th March to pay the costs.

I would appreciate any advice about what I wrote in my letter, and also what the courts next step(s) might be.

Also, does anyone know how to contact Leon from Leeds - a black guy who has put up some videos on You tube about fighting these corporations? I really like his approach to all of this.

Thanks

BY

by WokeBro Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:09 pm

Can't see the attachment.

by Tiggy Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:30 am

BY834 wrote:Hi,

9 months ago I started a small claims for breach of contract against an association I was a member of. This started 15 months ago. Anyway, on 27th Feb I lost my claim, as the defendant brought a barrister and solicitor to the hearing (I'm 95% certain paid for by the Borough council). The judge also awarded the defendant £600 for my 'unreasonable behaviour' (this was an FU decision - I actually behaved very well throughout). I walked into a trap. I only started to fully learn about the BC and magicians courts in January, so I had a feeling it wasn't going to end well. 2 days ago I received the order to pay the costs.

Yesterday I sent a letter to the court which I have attached (all details relating to me, court & case no were removed). Like most of us I am sick of the scum running the country, and I am not prepared to hand over £600 without standing up for myself. I have a horrible feeling my letter may have been naive (1st time involved in something like this) and may land me in more poo. I have until 20th March to pay the costs.

I would appreciate any advice about what I wrote in my letter, and also what the courts next step(s) might be.

Also, does anyone know how to contact Leon from Leeds - a black guy who has put up some videos on You tube about fighting these corporations? I really like his approach to all of this.

Thanks

BY

If you've written a letter to the Court they won't act on it, anything you want them to do either has to be made as an N244 general application or an N245 application to Vary an Order - this is where you make an offer to pay in instalments dependant upon your financial circumstances.

If you do make a N244 general application to say set aside the costs order, you have to pay £255 (unless you're exempt) and if you lose you risk having to pay further costs.

by BY834 Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:56 am

Hi Tiggy,

Thank you for the quick reply. I'm still learning how to reply to messages on this site, not the clearest yet. Also, I did attach my pdf letter yesterday but prowoke said it wasn't attached, I don't know why. I'll try it again now.

Your reply is not unexpected, about needing to contact the court via a form, but the cost is high. This system is Kafkaesque, justice if you can afford it. I also considered appealing this which I think might cost £120? I've learned my lesson about approaching the courts for anything in future, they are not for us! The £600 fine was for the defendants Legal costs for the hearing (they had a barrister & solicitor for a small claim under £30!), which from research is rare to be awarded and little precedent/guidelines for judges to award such costs. It was an FU gesture from the judge.

The order was address to a MR GXXXXX RXXX. In my letter I said I am not this person, my name is as my claim form Gxxxxx Rxxx. And there is no MR in my name. Therefore this is addressed to the wrong person. Also, the rule quoted that I was fined under doesn't exist (there is one close to it). And the order wasn't signed or dated (but I gather the judges are not signing any of these now).

So if I did appeal this I just have that sinking feeling I will be walking into another cost trap with them. In a couple more months I would have felt more confident to challenge this on the name issue alone, right now it feels I will just give myself more grief for nothing to show for it. Do you know if many are challenging them, and winning, on the name fraud?

Thanks for the advice

BY834

Attachments

: Reply to Judgement letter - 15th Mar 18.pdf attached letter sent to court.You don't have permission to download attachments.(186 Kb) Downloaded 5 times

by Little D Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:06 pm

With regards to your all caps name, I think you may find that in the initial paperwork there was a question along the lines of 'is the claimant a legal person'.

by BY834 Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:47 pm

Hi Actinglikeabanker,

I filed my claim online, I don't think I have a copy of the complete form, as it ran over several web pages. I just downloaded my original claim form from MCOL but this is a basic 2 page pdf, and doesn't have any question along the lines of 'is the claimant a legal person'. Could it have been in one of the original pages I had to fill, but doesn't come up when I print my claim docs out?

Another interesting snippet is that early courts mails had my name as upper & lower case, but that changed at some point to all CAPS.

Thx BY

by Little D Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:59 pm

Not sure where it would have been located, I just recall from one of the court cases I had awhile back that there was a specific question along those lines.

If I had answered no then the court would not have had jurisdiction to view my claim.

by Tiggy Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:04 pm

It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, you brought the claim, which was presumably dismissed as being without merit, which was why they awarded costs against you

As soon as you brought the claim you gave them jurisdiction to hear ithe dispute and decide whether it had merit or not.

by BY834 Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:19 pm

Hi Tiggy,

you are right. I foolishly thought I was standing up for myself when I started the claim. Then as I found out about what the courts really are I realised I had made a big mistake. I accept I didn't win the claim, but I realised in the hearing that the Council had paid the legal costs for the defendants barrister & solicitor, for a small claim. I & a friend who came both felt the council & judge had sorted out how to play this in advance, hence the FU £600 costs. Looks like I might have to chalk this down to experience and get better prepared for any future similar scenarios.

B.

by Tiggy Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:02 pm

BY834 wrote:Hi Tiggy,

you are right. I foolishly thought I was standing up for myself when I started the claim. Then as I found out about what the courts really are I realised I had made a big mistake. I accept I didn't win the claim, but I realised in the hearing that the Council had paid the legal costs for the defendants barrister & solicitor, for a small claim. I & a friend who came both felt the council & judge had sorted out how to play this in advance, hence the FU £600 costs. Looks like I might have to chalk this down to experience and get better prepared for any future similar scenarios.

B.

Never start litigation blind, even in the Small Claims Court, people think they are protected against costs but they're definitely not.

by **assassin** Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:35 pm

You can get insurance for and against claims, you can get before the fact which is a standard insurance policy as a stand alone, or an add on to an existing insurance policy and as an add on they cost pennies; and they are always there if and when you require them.

After the fact is where you begin a claim and is generally used in no win no fee applications where you bring a case against someone and this protects you from any incurred fees such as court fees and costs, in after the fact they are usually subject to a 25% (average) bonus payment to your solicitors after you have won, and your insurance premium is also deducted after you win.

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