Ground Rent - debt dspute

by Gman2022SkyTiger Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:55 am

Hi All,

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

I just wanted to outline my situation and ask whether the 3 letter approach is the correct one for my scenario.

I pay ground rent (£100) twice a year for the flat I pay a mortgage on, its on a long term lease with landlord. I have a signed contract with the landlords, however they sold it a few years ago, and although I was advised, a new contract has never been issued or signed by me. I have continued to pay the ground rent at £100. The landlord uses another company to collect these payments, on their behalf.

I forgot all about it this year, as I thought I had a standing order in place, but when I called the third party company up on May 16th, to find out when the ground rent was due, they advised me to contact another third party called Property Debt Collection Ltd, as they had been instructed on the matter of unpaid ground rent. They both added further charges, and now the alleged debt stands at £1,005.

In my original contract there is a section regarding third parties, I’ve scanned and attached this too.

I’ve attached my attempt at a first letter, that I sent on May 19th via recorded delivery from watching some videos, which I appreciate I have made mistakes with. They have sent me a response dated 27th June and sent back my original signed contract with the original landlord, copies of the HM Land Registry docs in my name, and have sent me copies of the statement of all unpaid charges and a Arrears Notice from Feb and March of this year.

I would be extremely grateful, if you could advise what my next step should be please.

Thanks in advance for any help that you can provide please.

by flyingfish Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:26 am

Just to be clear, can you confirm that your property is Leasehold and this ground rent is being paid to the Freeholder? Is it just ground rent, or is there some sort of management charge or maintenance for common areas rolled into it?

There have been some reforms in the relevant legislation so it may be worth a look to see if there's anything helpful to you ..
https://www.propertyinvestortoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2021/3/new-ground-rent-legislation-explained--why-is-it-so-important
https://www.gov.uk/topic/housing/freehold-leasehold-property

In general there seems to be a desire to get rid of it, as they did in Scotland way back. However it may be a slow process, the latest 2022 changes only affect new leases.

By the way, there was nothing attached to your post.

by Gman2022SkyTiger Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:11 pm

Hi flyingfish, many thanks for your reply, and help, and apologies for my late response, work has been a bit busy.

The property is a leasehold, I think 100 plus years, I have a mortgage on one of the flats within the development/block of apartments.

The ground rent and service charges are collected on behalf of the property owner/developers aka the freeholder by a third party company. My payments are made directly to the third party to their bank account, I believe they then pass on monies to the freeholder at the end of each term, when they have collected from all property owners within the development.

I will try and upload my documents again.

by Gman2022SkyTiger Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:30 pm

I keep getting the following error "Could not upload file : exceeded total storage space. (Free space : 0)" when I try and upload my attachments, they are the correct format (.pdf) and well below the max file size.

Am I only able to attach to the first message? I can't seem to locate any subsequent attach icons. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

by Gman2022SkyTiger Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:31 pm

@flyingfish please find attachments at the following links:
https://servimg.com/view/20437333/12
https://servimg.com/view/20437333/1
https://servimg.com/view/20437333/2
https://servimg.com/view/20437333/4
https://servimg.com/view/20437333/5
https://servimg.com/view/20437333/6
https://servimg.com/view/20437333/9
https://servimg.com/view/20437333/11

Do I proceed with the 3 letter approach to this third party that has now been instructed by the original 3rd party of the freeholder. I dispute the charges applied, would have no real problem paying the original £100, but don't want to admit to the debt, as I don't know if they have purchased it or have really been instructed. If I were to ask, should i ask it in the 3 letter approach or via an information Freedom Reguest?

by **Mrblue2015** Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:12 pm

Gman2022SkyTiger wrote:Hi All,

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

I just wanted to outline my situation and ask whether the 3 letter approach is the correct one for my scenario.

I pay ground rent (£100) twice a year for the flat I pay a mortgage on, its on a long term lease with landlord. I have a signed contract with the landlords, however they sold it a few years ago, and although I was advised, a new contract has never been issued or signed by me. I have continued to pay the ground rent at £100. The landlord uses another company to collect these payments, on their behalf.

I forgot all about it this year, as I thought I had a standing order in place, but when I called the third party company up on May 16th, to find out when the ground rent was due, they advised me to contact another third party called Property Debt Collection Ltd, as they had been instructed on the matter of unpaid ground rent. They both added further charges, and now the alleged debt stands at £1,005.

In my original contract there is a section regarding third parties, I’ve scanned and attached this too.

I’ve attached my attempt at a first letter, that I sent on May 19th via recorded delivery from watching some videos, which I appreciate I have made mistakes with. They have sent me a response dated 27th June and sent back my original signed contract with the original landlord, copies of the HM Land Registry docs in my name, and have sent me copies of the statement of all unpaid charges and a Arrears Notice from Feb and March of this year.

I would be extremely grateful, if you could advise what my next step should be please.

Thanks in advance for any help that you can provide please.

I'm afraid that the new GOOD approach does not cover this. All the best / I'm sure someone else will be able to help.

(Moved your post to the 'General' section)

by Gman2022SkyTiger Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:14 am

Hi,could someone please help,

it seems as if the alleged debt went back to the originating company who collect ground rent on behalf of the freeholder which is positive, however, they will now not accept payment of any further new ground rent demands unless the full amount of charges/late fees in relation to the H1-2022 ground rent is paid. I am happy to pay the ground rent but dispute the charges. Therefore they are now deliberately putting me into further debt.

I thought i'd pay the latest ground rent demand of £100 for H2-2022 because they sent me a demand, so not to incur any further charges with the H2 ground rent payment but they have advised that they are going to return the payment, and will apply a £35 admin charge, and again pass it onto a debt collection company.

I have also started to look at the Leasehold Reform (Ground Rent) Act 2022 and will try and use this to extend the lease to prevent future ground rent demands at the very least, but I need to call the general enquiries line to seek further clarification.

Should I also send a DSAR and IFR to obtain all data, and processes and procedures regarding late fees/charges calculations etc?

by **daveiron** Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:19 pm

I would send the next payment with an accompanying letter stating this payment
is made in respect of GR due for the period xxxxx. Should you return this payment
it will be deemed as your refusal to accept the payment.

Personally i would send this one RM special delivery , ( about £6.50 i recall)
that way you are gaurenteed
a signature, ( i find RM signed for does not always generate a signature)

Of course make copies of everything.

by Gman2022SkyTiger Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:27 pm

Thanks DaveIron, really appreciate your help.

With regards to their previous charges, which I dispute, I seem to recall reading (i may be wrong here) that claims in dispute cannot be collected/added to until they are resolved - is this correct? Is there something legally that protects us here?

by **daveiron** Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:21 pm

Try asking for a copy of any agreement or contract you signed that lists
these extra charges.

by Gman2022SkyTiger Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:37 pm

daveiron wrote:Try asking for a copy of any agreement or contract you signed that lists
these extra charges.

Thanks DaveIron - I'll let you know how I get on when they respond.

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