RTA claim. Any advise on getting a just payout?

Morning all, a few months back i had a vehicle reverse into my car...while i was stationary, totally NOT AT FAULT

To save my excess i claimed against the other driver's insurance (B). My insurance (A) has provided legal cover to do the legal side of the claim.

The car is a total loss and injury sustained (whiplash)
B has paid out on the vehicle at "their" market value...excepted as payment in-part.
A has offered a figure for the personal injury.

i am not happy because
1. the vehicle has had a lot of work done to it and had just passed MOT. It will cost more than the value of the payout to a, look for, travel to, to find a replacement. b, the replacement car may have unforeseen problems. c, the repair cost is above their valuation
So, i am looking for more than the "market" value of the car

2. the time spent dealing with this matter is at around 15 hours. i want to claim my private time that has been lost.

3. personal injury, what is a maximum that can be paid?

i believe that i should be put into the position i was in before the incident, just as if it had never happened.


i have spoke to another insurance claim solicitors, who say they cannot answer any questions until i instruct them and in their letter, it is stated they will make in the region of £5k...outrageous! And likely 9 - 18 months to resolve.

Does anyone have experience of likely outcome?
or, a recommended solicitor i could contact?

Many thanks in advance
itm

Not had this experience myself , but have often heard it said
'Never accept their first offer'
I would set out your losses and tell them this is your claim and what you are
prepared to settle upon. Got to worth a try at the very least.

Mine was hit in September and written off and much like you I had done a lot of work on it and I intended keeping it as in another three years it would have become a classic and added to my fleet.

They use an algorhythm to calculate the value and they use at least three sites giving values of a vehicle and this is the advertised price and the transaction price which is the discount you would negotiate and actually pay for the vehicle. Of all the systems they use CAP (the black book) is the most accurate, but they use trade prices and not retail prices, the price another dealer would pay for the vehicle which is way below the transacted price.

Values and accuracy vary and it depends on the age and condition of the vehicle, for anything up to 10 years old on mainstream models they are reasonable, but for 10-15 year old vehicles they are estimated, over 15 years old they are notoriously inaccurate; CAP recently boasted about being the most accurate and reading through their site they openly admit to being only 77% accurate which means they are wrong in 1 out of every 4 times.

You can claim for ANY out of pocket expenses and I had a hire car through my insurance, I didn't book mileage but I kept fuel receipts for ALL the fuel I used in the vehicle, I also claimed for using another vehicle and submitted fuel receipts for that, and I logged my hours searching for another vehicle and charged a reasonable hourly rate and I even printed a sheet out and logged subsistence for food and drinks, and I like my coffee. I bought some sales magazines and claimed I bought them for their adverts, extra insurance costs for my new vehicles premium rises, and even damage to clothing and personal items in my old car.

Their insurers have refused to pay and want to negotiate so I (only on Monday) instructed my solicitor to start court proceedings against them and all hell has broken loose, they now want to settle this and have offered me my full costs and expenses and injury compensation, but I now feel the need to add interest as it is now four months on.

Just a note to anyone else claiming unemployment benefits:

If you are claiming any benefits you are capped to a maximum of £6,000 compensation, for anything above this you will have your benefits reassessed and reduced, this even includes benefits for low wage top up.

There is a way around this and this is to set up an injury compensation trust and compensation amounts above this will be laid directly into your trust and not affect your benefits.

this I think is what assassin is on about:

https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/blog/2015/12/what-is-a-compensation-protection-service-or-personal-injury-trust/

It is, but shop around for the best prices as their costs can vary considerably.

Lots of trusts forming, or that i'm noticing lately.

No further with doing anything yet but want to soon as possible now.
Essentially my legal side won't do anymore or give any advise until i send signed medical experts sheet (agree or dis-agree are options) and 3rd party insureres are telling me to get legal representation.

So i am thinking of sending 3rd party insurers this (any feedback or suggestion most welcome, i've no idea how to lay one out and can't see any online)?

Claim Form
On this day xx May 2020 I, as a man named Xxxx Xxxxx with the given surname Xxxxx, do swear that below is a true account of events and all the facts listed below are true hitherto.

Ref: XXXX/XXXX
Incident XX September 2019 – 8 months ago

On the morning of XX September 2019 your client with registration number HXXXXX, email XXXXXXco.uk and mobile 0XXXX reversed into me while I was in my car XXXX. I was wearing my seatbelt and it was a bright, sunny and dry morning with excellent vision.

Your client was driving a large van ahead of me, we were entering into Xxxxx Business Park. As there was a small truck coming out of the estate ahead of your client. I was stopped about 4-5 meters and around 45 degrees to the off-side of your clients van when he stopped.

Then I saw he had started to reverse and I could see him in his off-side mirror, I began to panic because I could see that he had not noticed me and my car still stationary. In moments his speed increased and I tried to reverse out of the way but he was going too fast.

At the moment of impact my car was slowly reversing, my left hand was over the gear-stick (in reverse) with my thumb pushing hard against it with this arm slightly bent bracing for impact. My right hand had just made it to the horn as the van walloped me and my car. Also at this moment my left foot was hard on the clutch (preventing a stall) and braced with the leg skeletally locked.

Your client drove forward, I followed in shock but aware I was in the way of other vehicles. Your client had stopped a little way ahead as I allowed a vehicle to pull out. I was pulling up to 6-8m behind your clients vehicle both the driver and his passenger came towards my vehicle in a menacing manner and proceeded to accuse me of driving into them (all on video). I turned my ignition off and tried to explain that they had clearly reversed into me and that it is on dash camera, they had absolutely no regard for that fact and called me a liar which I was most upset by. There were two of them and they were becoming threatening, one even said “what you going to do I bet you’re 50” at which point I said “I need to be on my way thank you” (on video).

After getting back home and checking the cash camera footage I informed my insurance XXX and XXX the van drivers insurer.

It was a very painful, uncomfortable and restless night with little sleep.

The following day I tried to get into to see my GP but they were busy so I went to XXX XXXX A&E. They determined I had restricted movement in-line with a vehicle collision. I was told to rest and take pain killers if required, I am not one for taking tablets as they mask pain, I believe more damage can be done.

Three days later I received a call from your client demanding me to remove the footage of the incident from the internet (my company sells the dash camera I used, it is posted for marketing). I said “well no, I am marketing my products”. He said “it’s my van and you have 2 hours” I put the phone down on him before any further threats ensured. I then called the police to report the matter should any vendetta occur.

Because of this incident I was unable to work effectively. I have my own company and at that time it demanded a lot of effort and focus. I was also preparing to move into new offices. This incident was a huge distraction.
It is still taking up lots of my time now and then and needs to be resolved.

Damages, expenses and costs:
1. Report from medical expert Dr XXX (XX/10/19) where an assumed 4-6 months duration before:
• Neck
• Lower back
• Right leg
• Left elbow
Would be back to normal.

2. On or around 3rd February with increasing pain I made an appointment with my own GP.
• I have been having pain in my left knee, rare (several times since the incident but the last being 1st Feb hence the call to see GP) but severe almost unbearable when it occurs.
• Also increasing pain from left shoulder, neck and lower right back and buttock/upper leg.
• I had noticed tinnitus shortly after the incident which had increased throughout October and has never left, it is at times a huge distraction. I had never suffered with tinnitus before. I learned that tinnitus can be a symptom of a motor collision so I mentioned this to my GP.
He suggested getting some tests done first then speaking again to see what to do.

Appointments were received for:
Audio-ologist 7/2/20
XXXXXX Hospital MRI scan 17/2/20
Shoulder ultrasound scan 27/2/20

Sometime around 12/3/20 I visited my GP to discuss the results.
• Audio-ologist, had found no physical damage.
• MRI scan showed an existing ailment (cyst) under the knee cap that had been aggravated by the incident.
• Shoulder scan showed no torn damage
• I had also been experiencing intermittent pain in my left thumb and mentioned this to the GP as I was in pain with that again now, she said nerve damage and to rest it as much as possible.
Physio therapy was to be booked. Then the lock-down came into affect.

3. Persistent Damage:
I find tinnitus a huge distraction in day to day life, it hinders my concentration severely and business is suffering. It is also difficult to sleep at night and horrible if I wake in the night as find it hard to get back to sleep. I have taken to 2-3 large glasses of wine before bed to help numb the buzzing. This is not healthy and is very costly and probably adding to the emotional distress, insomnia and irritability.
My lower back is most uncomfortable at times almost unbearable and sometimes there is pain down right leg. Certain chairs and seating positions increase the pain, few positions alleviate the pain other than reclined in arm chair or my cars seat. There have been moments when I have almost fallen over due to the pain.
Shoulder, elbow and thumb, as these are all my left arm it is worrying because it is hard to permanently rest this entirely, a sling does not help all, as the elbow becomes stiff when it is removed. These complications are a big hindrance with work as part of my work is physical undertaking installation of security products on buildings and vehicles.
Because of the virus restrictions I have not been back to the GP nor have I heard from them regarding physio, this is somewhat irrelevant as this would not be able to happen at this time anyway. On the plus side it is giving an opportunity to rest up however it does worry me that this may not be the best action to alleviate the problems.

4. Out of pocket, costs and expenses:
See Claim Totals XXX.xlsx


Have not been able to take advantage of the offer of funded physiotherapy (XXX letter XX,9,19 accepted liability) which no doubt has compounded my physical damage and increase pain.

I have not at this time instructed any legal representation, which I believe would be charging around £5,000 to represent me.

The total of my claim for damages stands on this day 1st May 2020 at £XX,XXX.00

I require an interim payment of £XX,XXX.00 representing 1/5th of the damages to be awarded. This is payable within 5 days – by 8th May 2020.

I have not calculated interest on the damages and will not add any if all is agreed within 5 days – by 8th May 2020.

Interesting figures on here not managed to find actual cases and awards
https://www.quittance.co.uk/personal-injury-compensation/whiplash-claims
They are part of the Claims Direct that most online seem to be. But they claim:
Our online compensation calculator includes the 10% uplift in general damages in line with the Jackson reforms recommendation for claims funded by a conditional fee agreement (CFA). Cases initiated before 1st April 2013 may receive 10% less in general damages than indicated in the calculator.

Every attempt has been made to make all the information contained in this compensation payout guide and in the personal injury claims calculator as accurate as possible. However, the injury claims calculator is intended as a guide only.

He cannot demand you remove the footage as it is evidence of a potential crime, driving without due care and attention" and "not being in full control of a vehicle" to name two, there are others.

Therefore he has made threats against you to remove evidence which is a) evidence of criminal offences and b) that he is interfering with evidence to hinder your claim.

If you were on a public road then he has no claim as public photography is perfectly legal and lawful.

General notes:

Insurers data comes from several sources and while they claim it is "their retail valuation" it isn't, it is their trade or vehicle in poor condition value, so let me explain.

Ncap are the most often used source of data and their claimed retail values are way down as they are trade values and not retail values, they admit that their values are the most accurate, they openly admit that they are only 70% accurate at best and their values accuracy lessens with the vehicles age so read their websites.
They use another ploy and claim to have an independent assessors report and they do, but in 95% of cases the assessor only works from photographs of the damage taken by the repairer in their damage assessment and nothing else, in my case I was sideswiped and it knocked the door mirror into the door, yet the assessor claimed my vehicle (a large 4X4 and not a soft roader) had suspected suspension damage.

What did I do:

I got a mate to do a full damage report, a full condition report, and he actually visited and saw my vehicle, I did a SAR and got copies of the data they used and found it was not a current NCAP data valuation, but a much older one, and it was the lowest valuation for a vehicle in poor condition and with about a million miles on it, clear fraud.
I contacted the repairers and got copies of the photographs they sent to the insurer and an affidavit of truth from them saying they hadn't examined the vehicle, and they had only looked at the affected areas and nothing else, they confirmed that nobody had visited the vehicle to do anything and offered me their CCTV footage if needed, so where is it now? NCAP only supply information for traders to buy these vehicles in at, and suggest a MINIMUM retail price for sale, this is not the actual retail price as dealers have to add costs of any work and profits to this and build in a further margin for negotiations (transacted sale price) and add this to the retail asking price.

Actually its just been resolved, claim in the County Court against the insurers for:

a) fraud by false representation (Fraud Act 2006)

Claiming the vehicle had been inspected when it hadn't.
Using inaccurate and out of date data, NCAP actually supplied me the data used on the date of their asessment and the actual data they used, totally different.
failure to undertake due diligence in that their agent submitted information they knew was wrong or should have known was wrong; as they never actually saw the vehicle and worked on assumption and not facts, and the insurers should have known this was fraudulent information as the damage was confined to a door mirror and door skin which is nowhere near the suspension.

I also supplied other information:

Just before I renew my insurance I get prices from reputable retail selling sites, I do this again on the day I insure, and every month after I renew, I also copy the insurance form and highlight their section which says "VEHICLE VALUE" and this is vital as they base their premium upon your estimated valuation. Therefore you have a contracted valuation which YOU provide, and they base their premium upon this value, so a lawfully binding contract.

Nice one assassin, some great information.

My email was just sent with the claim as pt1 statement of fact. pt2 claim costs.

This was their initial "we can't deal with you"
> We note that you are not legally represented and you have not instructed anyone to represent you.
> It is not company policy to deal with personal injury claims with claimants directly. Therefore we very much regret that we do not consider that it would be appropriate for us to continue discussing the matter with you without representation.
> We would strongly recommend that you obtain legal advice.

Which i replied
It is my policy to deal direct with other persons or companies when I have a claim against them.

I do not require representation.
Please find attached my claim to Sabre for damages caused by your client to me.

They have just said
We are simply unable to deal with your personal injury claim directly so in the absence of you instructing legal representatives, we are unable to progress the matter any further.

Does anyone know if they can refuse to deal with a claimant or will it have to go to court?
cheers

Try along the lines of; your refusal to deal with this matter is now added to the
Record of the Parties .Please inform me what legislation states I must engage
independant legal represtation. Add anything more that comes to mind and head
it Letter before Action.
Also say you will now bring a personal claim against their customer

I would initiate a civil tort as it is a civil claim and anyone can submit a civil claim; their policy belongs to them and their employees and nobody else and it doesn't override the law.

Drop in a civil tort and watch when they get the paperwork as they will suddenly deal with you and ignore their company policy.

Excellent advise chaps, cheers...sent today and received below.
Not gone as expected, did i get something wrong?
How to action a civil tort?

Dear Mr xxxx
We understand there is no particular legislation which states that you must engage independent legal representation, however it is not in our company policy to deal with personal injury claims with claimants directly.

Again, we can only suggest you seek legal advice.

Mr xxx

Claims Handler



----- Original Message -----



Dear Mr xxxx
Your refusal to deal with this matter has been noted and added to the Record of the Parties.

I urge you to deal with this matter and advise me within 24 hours otherwise I will have no alternative but to initiate a civil tort and send a letter before action. I will also bring a personal claim against your client.

I insist you inform me what legislation states I must engage independent legal representation.

Yours sincerely

Rephrase it? never use the term "advise me" as this puts them in the position of advisor.

I urge you to deal with me in this matter and contact me within 24 hours to advise me of your decision.

Your company policies are for you and your company employees and unless you are employing me, I am not bound by your policies, or even recongnise them.

I niow require you to state the specific legislation requires that I must have legal representation as company policies do not override the law.

You may find some useful info in this link .
Also I would from now on address everything to the CEO personally.

Ithink that once the other driver receives the claim ,he will be screaming at them,
so make the claim against him ,as his insurers are refusing to deal with you.

http://affordablelawforyou.co.uk/how-to-make-a-civil-claim.php

Cheers gents,
Never seems to go straight forward. Can't fin CEO ony another Limited company as Persons with significant control..i've not seen that before.
The link looks very useful daveiron, any ideas to speed up process or must it now be a claim? to both or just the other driver?
latest...

Dear Mr xxx

We are not able to forward your email to the CEO. Should you wish for your correspondence to be seen by a manager please clearly state in your email "For the attention of senior management".


We understand you are not bound by our policies, however it is our duty to abide by our policies, therefore if it is within our policy to refuse to deal with unrepresented claimants when it comes to personal injury, we must stand by this and it is quite within our right to do so.


Kind Regards,



----- Original Message -----

Dear Mr

I require that you ensure the CEO and/or Managing Director of Sabre receives this email as it is for that persons attention, I cannot find an email for Binomial Group Limited - Persons with significant control.
Assumed to be:
Geoffrey Richard CARTER
Adam Richard WESTWOOD

I urge you to deal with me in this matter and contact me within 24 hours to advise me of your decision.

Your company policies are for you and your company employees and unless you are employing me, I am not bound by your policies, or even recognise them.

I now require you to state the specific legislation which requires that I must have legal representation as company policies do not override the law.

Yours sincerely

I think your claim should be against the other driver, or possibly his employer if it was a company vehicle. You don't actually have any sort of relationship with the other party's insurer, unless they choose to deal with you for expediency.

Yes as FF says ,make a claim against the other driver and / or his employer.
When claims become personal it tends to focus their mind somewhat.
Remember he caused your injuries and his employer is also vicariously liable.

Firstly I think you need to get your injuries documemted by your doctor.
Then write to the driver and his employer ,stating that on numerous occasions
their insurers have refused to deal with you and you will now be bringing a civil
case against them personally for your injuries.
You also need to calculate your damages,as you need a figure for any claim.

PM me your insurers and I will get their information.

Thanks for all advise guys, makes sense as there is no agreement with 3rd party insurance and me.

The other driver, i never got his name or address (lesson learned) and think it is his company and his van (maybe a franchise). i have his email and mobile number.
His van livery is Three-A Tyres (these are a brand) and he goes about fitting i guess.
Have asked his insurers for his name but they won't disclose it.
i have sent him an email telling him i must claim from him personally or from his company, asking for what he prefers, but no reply.
Would anyone mind sending him an email to obtain a quote for tyres to discover the business details for me please? PM me and i will send his email

Records from the doctors should be a straight forward process? i have broken down elements of the claim. Finding actual cases of injury and payouts is not easy, but the link sent in a earlier post has assumed figures in the region of. And they are far greater than the ones we generally see from medical experts!

Hi had a quick look & Three A Tyres appears to be a brand. So as far as i
can see your only course is report it to plod to try to obtain info on the
driver / company. Dont let them fob you off with things like its a civil matter.
You have suffered injuries .
I would go personally to plod and make sure you record it on your phone, that
tends to focus their mind .

Just looking into this again and yep to claim direct from the driver is a given.
This is not preferred route and is becoming almost an interesting but necessary journey.

There are couple of elements to this:
1. Personal injury - this is what 3rd party insurers WON'T deal with me directly on
2. Loss of time and to repair car inc out of pocket - this can be dealt with by 3rd party insurance.

My insurance has legal cover, they won't advise unless i sign the medical experts report (either agree or disagree) which means i guess i subrogate. All i want is advice from my legal team, is there anyway anyone knows of forcing this?
Spoken to SSB Law and they won't give anything unless they're given authority.

What a swindle! We need this correcting, how much are the solicitors scamming from and to themselves with and through the insurance companies that WE are paying!!!
We need some payback folks.

This is a part of the claim, another £3.5k in my time, vehicle repair etc..
Injury https://www.quittance.co.uk/personal-injury-compensation-claims-calculator
Tinnitus According to recent Judicial College guidelines, you can claim up to £8,000 for minor to moderate whiplash injuries, but most claims are under £5,000. But, claims for tinnitus can range from £6,000 up to £40,000, with even mild tinnitus claims costing up to £11,000.30 Oct 2019 £30,000.00
https://www.fanglawfirm.com/hearing-loss-after-car-accident/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10241866/fake-tinnitus-car-crash-claims-push-up-insurance-bills/
Neck/Whiplash Moderate Full recovery within 1 year £1,950 to £3,470 £3,000.00
Back injury recovering in up to 5 years £2,090 to £10,670 £8,000.00
Shoulder Minor shoulder injury Up to £6,730 £5,000.00
Thumb Thumb injury recovering in around 6 months Up to £4,055 £3,000.00
Elbow Elbow injury not causing significant long term problems Up to £10,750 £7,000.00
Knee Knee injury causing mild long term problems £12,650 to £22,340 £6,000.00

Cost of insurance premium increase – 3 years £270.00

All I can suggest at this point is ,contact your insurers require a copy of your
T&Cs of your legal cover.
In the meantime concentrate on getting driver / company details,& doctors report.

Firstly, their policies are theirs, it doesn't override the law which says anyone can bring a civil tort in the County Courts and if you issue civil proceedings they will suddenly breach their company policies and deal with it.