HMRC and the use of Debt Collection Agencies

by barnwebb Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:08 pm

Hi goodf folks,

The wife owes some VAT but she's hasn’t been able to pay it in one lump sum this time round so she sorted out a standing order paying HMRC weekly as a temporary measure and sent them a recorded delivery letter explaining the situation.

She has since received a collection letter from a DCA wanting her to pay the full amount.

We called HMRC and questioned them about the letter she sent and why had she received a letter from a DCA. They said that there is a large backlog of letters and her one hasn’t yet come through the system so they no nothing about it. Okay, we can understand that but what about the DCA we asked. Their answer was pretty annoying (and typical) in that it’s out of the HMRC’s hands and she has to deal directly with the DCA.

My question to you good goodf folks is this, …. am I correct in saying that she doesn’t need to deal with the DCA at all as they are a third party and she can write them a polite letter telling them to take a hike and that she will only deal with the HMRC directly and that they (the DCA), need to return everything they might be in possession of to the HMRC ?

Thanks in advance Smile

by **LionsShare** Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:16 pm

so long as it is a DCA & not a purchaser from my experience dealing with utilities I simply send a letter to the affect:

Since receiving your letter dated ??, you are hereby notifiied I will only deal with the OC & not with you, you will need to return this claim to your client.

There is more narrative I use but that's the essence.

You could also sent the 3 letters for dca's

I have always dealt with these people at every stage & some are easier to back down than others, but if put on notice & with a WOIRA it should be enough to stop them.

Others should be along soon to offer further help.

by **daveiron** Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:10 pm

Agree with LS. I always inform DC's That under no circumstancies will
any payment be made to them and any future correspondance will be ignored.

by barnwebb Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:43 pm

Thanks for the rapid response LionsShare and daveiron, it is just a DCA and not a purchaser, I'm sure the HMRC just use them as a ploy to frighten people into paying but that only works if you can actually pay otherwise it just panics the people who can't.

I shall scribble a suitable "get lost" letter for the DCA, I can only assume they will have to go away as HMRC knows the situation and everything has been and will be logged on the HMRC computer system.

by mongoose Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:49 am

be careful. A lot of HMRC letters are fake. The fact they dont know about it has alarm bells ringing. and their phone number has been compromised. I got caught by one of these and was suspicious and phoned directly to HMTC who said that the one sent was fake.

by Libelresponse Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:31 am

If i may chirp in here:

Seems to be some confusion in some of your vocabulary regarding Agents and Purchasers; Firstly There is no such thing as debt purchaser, the "Rights" to collect on the debt is assigned (usually by way of purchase) and can be either legal or equitable, (both types of assignment are enforceable (or not) and limited by certain criteria specific to each one) this is very important to understand, or alternatively you have debt factoring services, who are just finance firms who buy (the rights to collect) on the outstanding book debts of a business at a discount so the business can improve cash flow in the short term. (not relevant for HMRC)

Agency, HMRC most likely use an agent (inhouse to collect) similar to what the DWP do when they get one of their quango agencies to collect on social security advances.

An agent must be able to show authority by way of appointment ... be very clear about this.

Best

by **daveiron** Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:50 am

Hi barnweb,
My experience with HMRC was that they used Advancis (debt collectors)
to attempt to collect .Whilst they ignored the 3 letters ,they past it back
to HMRC shortly after letter 3. Do a search on the collectors website ,it will
tell you who and what they are.

by **Mrblue2015** Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:59 am

Agreed on all previous comments from DI and LS above. DCAs are lucky that we even bother replying to them given that there is no legal requirement whatsoever to engage with a DCA (A for AGENT...)

by barnwebb Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:16 pm

Thanks for the input mongoose, Libelresponse, daveiron and Mrblue.

A suitable letter has been sent to the DCA so hopefully they will go away and leave us to get on with dealing with HMRC directly.

Mongoose - thanks for letting me know that there are fake HMRC letters out there, I had an auto robot phone call last year pretending to be HMRC telling me I was going to be prosecuted, which was amusing to me as I knew I didn’t owe them anything, I ignored it of course.

Just to clarify, HMRC knew about the DCA as they had sent the info to them and HMRC had also sent the sabre rattling letters to the wife, but they didn’t know about any letter she (we) had sent to them.

Just as a side note she sent a similar letter to HMRC PAYE on the same day and they have responded to it with a letter that arrived today so no problem there (yet).

The VAT people unfortunately just act like gestapo bullies in comparison to the PAYE people.

Libelresponse – thanks for the information. The HMRC, as far as I know, don’t have inhouse agencies to collect but do use outside agencies and the one the wife heard from is on the list on this page …………… https://www.gov.uk/if-you-dont-pay-your-tax-bill/debt-collection-agencies

by DogBalls Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:53 pm

LionsShare wrote:so long as it is a DCA & not a purchaser from my experience dealing with utilities I simply send a letter to the affect:

Since receiving your letter dated ??, you are hereby notifiied I will only deal with the OC & not with you, you will need to return this claim to your client.

There is more narrative I use but that's the essence.

You could also sent the 3 letters for dca's

I have always dealt with these people at every stage & some are easier to back down than others, but if put on notice & with a WOIRA it should be enough to stop them.

Others should be along soon to offer further help.

What is a WOIRA?

by **daveiron** Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:14 pm

Here you are, open attachment in first post.

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t264-removal-of-implied-right-of-access

by **LionsShare** Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:21 pm

Mrblue2015 wrote:Agreed on all previous comments from DI and LS above. DCAs are lucky that we even bother replying to them given that there is no legal requirement whatsoever to engage with a DCA (A for AGENT...)

A could be ar*e hole Very Happy

which is what they are.

by barnwebb Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:10 am

Haha, absolutely LS lol!

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