Tear Off Slip relateing to a Bill Of Exchange (BOE)

In a BOE there are 3 entities Drawer, Drawee, Payee.

A provides B with goods/services, B says to I can’t afford to pay now please could I pay in ? days? OK says A. A being now being Creditor draws up a BOE (Drawer – like an Artist drawing a picture) & gives to B. B (Drawee) accepts giving  full acceptance. At this point the BOE now becomes a contractually binding document. The Payee (the 1 that receives payment) in all of this is A. So whilst there are 3 entities in a BOE in this scenario there really are only 2.

If you watch any yt vid on BOE it will or at least should back up that stated above.

Utilities, Tear Off Slip

It can be seen there at least 3 possibly 4 entities. The corporate bank, the collection bank, the Mr. Mrs. Etc., & finally but not always the Utility Co.

Also but very important, The customer acct (Public Account), the credit acct (Private Account not suppose to know about), & the sort code.

On the tear off slip below the thick black box with the amount in (the added value) are the words “cheque acceptable or not at post office counter”, it is a cheque, because the word “cheque” is stated.

Payee – easiest - the Payee on the cheque is actually the Collection Bank account for the util Co’, in the place on a normal cheque you would expect to find the Payee – the commercial person, or the Mr.. Mrs., Etc.,  1 will find 1’s name accompanied with the Mr.. Mrs., Etc.,  if 1 tries to cash said cheque at bank or post office you will definately not be able to. So the Mr. Mrs. etc., name is NOT the Payee.

Received is a cheque with added value that you can’t do awt with so what to do? The only thing to do is endorse & send it back which should be accepted to give honourable discharge, using the Credit Account or Escrow Account (an account held by a 3rd party C, for payment to A for goods/services supplied to B, the account details would be that of B (the Mr. Mrs Etc., name here)).

Drawee is usually the clearing or issuing bank here it is the Corporate Bank.

Drawer is the Corporate Bank.

On the slip there may/not be the util Co’ listed but there is NO signature representing the util Co’ (remember a man ONLY can contract with another man) so the util Co’ cannot be Drawer (see section 3 sub1,2 BOE Act 1882). So as this is a commercial instruction bank to bank the Corporate Bank must be Drawer & Drawee, why Drawee? Back to the 3 entity 2 person scenario above, the Escrow account has to be held by the Corporate Bank which is used to pay the Collection Bank (2 banks = 2 persons).

The Collection Bank cannot hold the credit account nor be the Drawee as it would pay itself, no bank to bank transfer, if it were the Drawee that would say be the left hand paying the right. That cannot be done, definately not (Certainly for internal projects where finance has to be moved around for accounting purposes that may be OK (internal bank transfers)). The Collection Bank  cannot be the Drawer either as that represents the util' Co'.

To sum up: the corporate bank draw up the cheque, receive it themselves & draw on the Escrow account they hold to actually give discharge to the collection bank, bank to bank transfer. I actually get an 8 digit account number for the collection bank account (but not always) when used in conjunction with the sort code listed gives a valid bank account - see sortcodes.co.uk. At that point the Customer Account should be zeroed out to £0.

There are ONLY 2 persons (Corporate Bank, Collection Bank) representing the full 3 entities (Drawer, Drawee, Payee) for a BOE, it’s all a play on words & switching of entities to suit a situation. It really does take a lot to get 1’s head around (actually quite simple).

A4V

Please see https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/defects

Defect - Imperfection, flaw, or deficiency.

The main defect is that there is no consideration attached to the offer to contract/agreement or where there is no contract or agreement. That’s why A4V should work for say Council Tax (I am not saying do it!). It may not be correct for utilities & on the surface it would appear so (because consideration is attached). Although if read those A4V sources quoted in threads on A4V there is evidence in US even where there is consideration attached to the offer A4V can still be used, it really is 1 of those “don’t fully know it’s all up in the air”. You the reader have to draw your own conclusions (use due dilligance). I would recommend (from experience) stick to tried & proven methods (see endorse trilogy vids – look for “we know it works”).

In a debt driven economy can only charge/discharge so cannot pay for anything & all debt must be forgiven. All public debts should be done via signatures (as credit representation) & only use cash for personal services/goods supplied.

The 1 thing that MAY be stopping this from being totally successful is the Cashier’s stamp.

something to consider (I have) how does this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT6Me2Sku8k

fall into the settling of statements or accounts?

Here is some more evidence of settling of statements or accounts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7nSTAhK7_g

& this is I think important as to why we are not getting full recognition. To do with the cashier's stamp on the document.

(1371)

here is more info on why I went for 3 entity/2 PERSON model:

Sample Bill of Exchange
https://www.letterofcredit.biz/index.php/2018/04/28/sample-bill-of-exchange/

Remaining details of the bill of exchange are:
• drawer is the beneficiary, who is also the exporter: Export Handel Po Box 123 Amsterdam Holland
• drawee is the issuing bank, who is also the importer’s bank that opened the letter of credit: Commerzbank AG D-60261 Frankfurt am Main GERMANY
• payee is also the beneficiary.

More from the same site:
https://www.letterofcredit.biz/index.php/2018/04/27/bill-of-exchange/.

Parties to Bill of Exchange:

There are 3 parties involved in a typical bill of exchange transaction.

Drawer of a Bill of Exchange: Is the party that issues a Bill of Exchange in an international trade transaction; usually the seller or exporter.
Drawee of a Bill of Exchange: Is the recipient of the Bill of Exchange for payment or acceptance in an international trade transaction; usually the importer, the issuing bank or the confirming bank.
Payee of a Bill of Exchange: Is the party to whom the Bill is payable; usually the seller or his bank such as the advising bank. (Source: aib trade finance)

Look carefully at you tear off slip there are 2 banks listed. Even though the Util Co will be the ultimate Payee, the collection bank has to be the Payee on that slip.

This is the best single example of a BOE I could find.

LS

In the 1st pay by endorse vid the presenters talk about going to County Court. Why? Equity!

If the utils go to mags court over money, then wrong court/juristiction, the endorsed slips must be presented in court which the mags court will not allow because once those slips are placed in evidence then the mags have to back heel it somewhere else. It becomes a matter for a court of equity, and once the case gets there, there will be some serious questions to be answered.

It doesn't matter whether or not the note is properly endorsed, or even that your trust estate is not claimed, it matters only once evidenced an intent to pay via trust (which involves 'truth and facts' that the mags are sworn to not 'hear' in their courts (THEY do not like being asked if THEY stand under thier Oath of Office)). The equity court would be obliged to force the utility to explain - in court - what if anything was done wrong (ask Plaintiff if the slip is consideration to give honorable discharge for the alleged bill?), at that point the floodgates would open.

That's why I keep saying the cashier's stamp is the achille's heel for THEM, it trumps what THEY can do . Yes there is more in deapth to this - we are the Trustee(s) to the Trustees!

THEY know that there will be a bank account behind the PERSON name (making us look like Payee, that's why we all keep getting 'Bills') & THEY want to tap into that as well as getting paid via.....

Peace to all.

LS


(1482)

i'd better read and watch it all again LS, great work.

so much more to it and the trust thing, very interesting.

i watched a video recently where the BoE was set up simply to allow trade among other commonwealth territories, to allow IOU to exist to facilitate trade where payment could be made later as money or goods.

LionsShare wrote:All public debts should be done via signatures (as credit representation) & only use cash for personal services/goods supplied.

Think about how your mortgage is set up, then ask the bank manager "where does the cash come from?" I'll bet he says "ssshhhhhh my pocket". Remember banks do NOT lend anything!

Nite Nite.

LS