BoEVAT council pcn - Traffic Tribunal

by janloot Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:11 pm

Good afternoon members Wink

I received a pcn arround this time in 2019.

I sent the council BoEVAT letter 1 & after their expected reply I then sent BoEVAT letter 2.

Since then the council in question has taken me to the Traffic Tribunal 3 times, each time I have followed BoEVAT advice of sending Rebuttal letter & the TE9 Witness Statement form.

On all occasions the traffic tribunal has sent the pcn back to the council.

My question is : how many times can a council take a pcn to the traffic tribunal, bearing in mind it has been sent back to the council 3 times!

Is there any further action I can take to end this? Wink

by **daveiron** Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:25 pm

Does the tribunal give a reason for sending it back ? Clearly they cannot proceed
so maybe a cease and desist letter to the council on the grounds of harassment.

by janloot Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:22 pm

Letter from the tribunal states:

The respondent filed a statutory declaration/witness statement on 22-sept-20.
It is ordered that the order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge be revoked.

It is further ordered that the charge certificate be cancelled.

Inportant note to respondant:
This order does NOT cancel the origonal PCN.

in the past the council get intouch with me stating the above but they appear to receive a much more detailed letter with information from the Traffic Tribunal

Wink

by **LionsShare** Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:48 pm

daveiron wrote:Does the tribunal give a reason for sending it back ? Clearly they cannot proceed
so maybe a cease and desist letter to the council on the grounds of harassment.

could add as they have failed 3 times what makes them - council think they will at any time succeed?

by **assassin** Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:03 am

Protection from Harassment act means you can bring a civil claim now, and file criminal charges, this legislation states that an occurence has to happen twice or more to be construed as harassment and if they have done it three times and been rejected three times so bring a claim and report it to the lice.

You also have them under the civil service code of conduct for being dishonest ans wasting public money, read the document and at the bottom is the address to write to and report them, do this also.

Standards of behaviour
Integrity
You must:
• fulfil your duties and obligations responsibly
• always act in a way that is professional5 and that deserves and retains the confidence of all those with whom you have dealings6
• carry out your fiduciary obligations responsibly (that is make sure public money and other resources are used properly and efficiently)
• deal with the public and their affairs fairly, efficiently, promptly, effectively and sensitively, to the best of your ability
• keep accurate official records and handle information as openly as possible within the legal framework
• comply with the law and uphold the administration of justice

Honesty
You must:
• set out the facts and relevant issues truthfully, and correct any errors as soon as possible
• use resources only for the authorised public purposes for which they are provided
You must not:
• deceive or knowingly mislead ministers, Parliament or others
• be influenced by improper pressures from others or the prospect of personal gain

by janloot Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:18 pm

Good afternoon members Wink

Well the postman delivered a letter today from Scarbrough council. The contents of which are below:

BoEVAT council pcn - Traffic Tribunal 3rd_tr10

BoEVAT council pcn - Traffic Tribunal Adjudi10

BoEVAT council pcn - Traffic Tribunal Adjudi11

I am a bit shocked at the only avenue open to me for an "appeal" is to go to the High Court!! .......... whats all that about?

How are the council going to get any order to pay without going to "a court"?

Any & all comments most welcome

by **LionsShare** Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:46 pm

This may not be of any comfort, I have seen something similar with my speed case last year, totally RAILROADED. Looks like you have been stuffed good & proper. All these scum want is your cash. Perhaps you could try A4V - see in utilities section. If I can find other posts on this site there is evidence of how this MAY have been acheived (A4V)? Give me some time!

LS

by janloot Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:05 pm

cheers LionShare

I dont understand how they can enforce this without taking it to court?

by **daveiron** Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:09 pm

Have you tried getting in touch with the Boevat guys ? they may well have come
across this before.

by **LionsShare** Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:25 pm

hope this all helps, when I had my parling ticket earlier this year I did something different.

I stated 'as benificiary of the County Trust of.... County I order you the Trustee(s) of the County Trust of.... County to discharge all liabilities in connection with this claim'. Not heard a peep since June. Yes I also included the BOEVAT stuff.

this looks good it gives you the knowledge of what you are & also what you are not at the same time:
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t4542-pcn
in the YT video above please look for (its just more ammo):

LionsShare 3 months ago
could also add: please show the commerce taking place? if evidence is not 4th coming then show where in the Act(s) you refer to it states commercial rules/regs can be sanctioned where the is no evidence of commerce taking place. Its just an idea.

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t3828-a4v

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t4016-a4v-extra-info

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t3975-a4v-threads

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t3828-a4v

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t3775-a4v

I know the author of this vid has had some errrr press on this site but that stated to me does ring true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jboD8yw-ZJU

by **LionsShare** Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:33 pm

janloot wrote:cheers LionShare

I dont understand how they can enforce this without taking it to court?

You have been RAILROADED. Did any of thier initial paper work carry signitures?

If not then there is no commercial liability, & should NOT stand up in Court.

by **LionsShare** Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:43 pm

Just an idea, what about asking for bill (similar to utility bills) & state you will give honorable discharge as a 1 off? I am NOT going down the BOEVAT route just doing some simple common sense commerce. If they agree then A4V (if it did come with a tear off slip - unlikley - the pay by endorsement). Remember (I think) you have no Contract or Agreement with them to do business unless you know differently.

ask them to prove the obligation - they claim a liability is owed, without proof of the obligation there is by definition NO liability. Ask how does yellow lines on a road constitute a contract (show me the contract with my signiture on) or was it parking in a car park?

There is a lot to go through but hope it all helps.

LS

by **LionsShare** Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:45 pm

this REALLY is something to look at if you end up in court:

https://thebridgelifeinthemix.info/british-law/understanding-jurisdictions-court/

Establishing the Jurisdiction
When at court and you are asked to “state your name” respond only with your first name — “sean” for example, or “your first name followed by your middle name” but never offer a Surname —

Then you declare or admit that “I am here to address the court “in this matter”— this tells the Judge you are here, in your flesh and blood body, you are a Man/Woman. (Never be in court always be at)

This must be done at the very outset of any court case, criminal or civil, and you must avoid the whole issue of the “name game” entirely.

The jurisdiction changes and is signalled when the judge gets up from the bench and leaves the courtroom. When he returns, they have “ratcheted up” into another and more serious jurisdiction.

They always follow the same order and begin in the maritime (commercial) jurisdiction where the answer is to “wish for” remedy.

The second more serious jurisdiction is admiralty (martial law) jurisdiction where the answer is to “wish for” cure and relief.

If the judge dares to leave and come back again, you are both playing for High Stakes, and are now in ecclesiastical court (cannon law) jurisdiction….. Where the answer is to identify your self in connection with the Creator. A Judge who violates your sovereignty in this jurisdiction loses his job permanently.

Would it work ? I do not know as have not been in a position to actually try!

If I could make this all go away for everyone I would.

LS

by janloot Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:45 am

** UPDATE **

I have just received the letter below from the council. this is a reply to a letter I sent them stating once again I am not refusing to pay, I just require a proper vat invoice......

BoEVAT council pcn - Traffic Tribunal Reply_10

BoEVAT council pcn - Traffic Tribunal Reply_11

How can the council take action for the payment?
If a bailiff then they will need a court order...... if so, then the process will surely start again??

Any advice most welcome.

(Does anyone have the contact details of the Boevat guys?) via pm if it helps

Wink

by **LionsShare** Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:27 pm

janloot wrote:Good afternoon members How are the council going to get any order to pay without going to "a court"?
Any & all comments most welcome

Welcome to the world of corruption we are ALL in. I get this over & over - 'your utility bill is NOT paid' etc. From my experience with this sort of corruption is to simply keep fighting, keep asking for an invoice to the standard you require.

Even after what I did with mine back in the summer, still have NOT heard a peep, am I lucky? No I don't think so, there is still the balance of 6 years to go before it would become statue barred. There is still time for them to come after me.

Regarding a bailiff NONE of the Court paperwork will be signed by anyone, utimately it is THEFT - there is no other way to say it.

by **LionsShare** Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:31 pm

if you think you may end up in court why not form a strategy & possibly use what is my post above that starts: 'this REALLY is something to look at if you end up in court:'?

by **daveiron** Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:48 pm

Hi, Have you looked at all the pages on their site ,think there are 4 or 5 ?
You may be able to contact them via facebook ,I cannot find contact details.

by janloot Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:52 pm

I am looking through the info suggested as we speak.

I have searched through the BOEvat site but the contact us link was removed sometime ago. Cant find anything on FB either. I know the brothers stated the councils were now using the traffic tribunal route instead of the courts but they did not give any further advice on how to carry on.

I seem to remember something about contacting the fraud dept!

What about contacting my MP?

by **LionsShare** Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:03 pm

TBH try anything you think might work.

If they are going through the traffic tribunal then at some point (pick your moment though), by all means ask the tribunal how do they have authority to do.... or where does it come from, or do they honestly have authority over you? Pick your words carefully!

by **daveiron** Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:53 pm

Ok, I have found contacts for them;https://boevat.org.uk/contact-us-2/

Have a look also at their downloads page ,if you have not already.
also it transpires that its the council who appoints the adjudicator. so no conflict of
interest then.

by janloot Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:51 pm

Cheers daveiron Wink

I have written a letter of complaint to the council CEO, again citing I do not contest the pcn; however, I require a vat invoice.

I will update as and when I have any response

by **daveiron** Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:51 pm

Just another thought, Have you considered a Notice of conditional acceptance ?

by janloot Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:53 pm

Have I not done this already: ie, I will pay the pcn if and when I receive a lawful invoice?

by **daveiron** Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:46 pm

True , but maybe better to expand it a bit and send it as a notice.
Just throwing in a few ideas mate.

by janloot Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:03 pm

cheers daveiron I will add that when I get the next correspondence from them Wink

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