Three letters + estoppel

by Biggiebest Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:20 pm

M & S bank were served an estoppel notice.
They replied with, “pay a pound and we will furnish you with the details requested.
Am I correct to ignore and serve in 20 days time a notice of Aquiscence?

by **Mrblue2015** Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:03 am

As you have issued the Estoppel, continue to follow the process here, which will answer your question:

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t4129-please-read-this-first#28025

by flyingfish Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:43 am

Biggiebest wrote:They replied with, “pay a pound and we will furnish you with the details requested.

They're confusing your notice with a request under s77 (or78) of the Consumer Credit Act, which requires payment of a £1 fee but which doesn't cover all the information you've been requesting in any case.

by **Mrblue2015** Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:02 am

No fee is required as per the DPA 2018 / GDPR.

by flyingfish Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:33 am

Correct, DPA 2018 removed the £10 fee in the preceding DPA (was it 1988?) and reduced the time to comply from 40 to 30 days. However that's referring to a DSAR rather than a request under CCA 1974.

by **Mrblue2015** Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:54 am

A CCA contains your personal info, and so how / why would a free apply? People have responded to a Letter of Claim with an RFI (to inc a copy of the CCA) and included a £1 fee, but the fee has always been returned.

by flyingfish Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:19 am

Mrblue2015 wrote:why would a free apply?

I've no idea why, but that is what was put into the statute ..

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a) the state of the account, and
(b) the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

I don't think this is same as the information which should be provided in response to a DSAR, for example terms and conditions and interest rates are not personal information as defined. And conversely correspondence which should be released under DSAR would not be provided under CCA. Another distinction is that failure to comply with the CCA request places a statutory bar on enforcement of that specific agreement.

But it's also important to remember that both a DSAR and a CCA request have been found, through case law, to give the right to the information contained in documents and not necessarily the documents themselves. This distinguishes both from the material requested in the Three Letters or similar.

by **Mrblue2015** Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:35 am

I assume the fee is still in the statute because it came before the changes regarding the DPA that reflect the GDPR.

A company should not refuse you any document that contains your personal data and the request should not have to explicitly be a SAR.

Agreed (by your implication) that a SAR would not return Ts & Cs (I also know that from personal experience).

Also worth mentioning that the CCA must be a true copy, not some constituted version.

It also depends on how far you would be willing to go. Even a CCA is invalid if the provider cannot prove that it contains a signature (even if digital) that is uniquely assigned to an employee (see Assassin’s posts).

by **daveiron** Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:34 pm

Fraud Act 2006 sec 3

by Biggiebest Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:37 pm

Sorry guys,
I am now confused as to what to do.
Do I continue the process or do I respond and pay the £1.

All the advice with the process has been ignore everything they send you and continue the process. Now I am confused. Sorry for being a dimwit.

by flyingfish Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:54 am

That's entirely up to you. I would have thought it worthwhile, but be aware of what a "true copy" actually means before shooting from the hip once you see the result. The authority for a reconstituted copy is Carey, so you would need to be prepared to refute that with different or later case law ..
Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 3417
It's arguable that even though a reconstituted agreement satisfies s78, it doesn't prove that a compliant agreement correctly signed ever existed.

by **Mrblue2015** Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:48 am

Biggiebest wrote:Sorry guys,
I am now confused as to what to do.
Do I continue the process or do I respond and pay the £1.

All the advice with the process has been ignore everything they send you and continue the process. Now I am confused. Sorry for being a dimwit.

If you follow the process, in every detail / with every consideration you need to take, it’s very hard to go wrong.

How much is the alleged debt, rounded up to the nearest £1,000, with M&S bank? M&S is very likely to simply sell the alleged debt on. That’s how it goes…

by Biggiebest Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:14 am

MrBlue,
£2.5k

by **Mrblue2015** Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:33 pm

No need for the sad face buddy. £2.5K is nothing when it comes to the GOODF process. Just continue with the process and you’ll be fine.

The process worked for me for approx £20K of alleged debts made up of multiple alleged debts, the biggest being approx £4K.

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