Re: DSAR

by **daveiron** Sat Jul 22, 2023 7:13 pm

I suppose you could reply stating the letter has been forwarded to you
and you are no longer resident at that address,and give them the 3rd parties
address. Or reseal the envelope and write across it 'opened in error,addressee
no longer at this address.'

by brownowl Sat Jul 22, 2023 7:36 pm

daveiron wrote:I suppose you could reply stating the letter has been forwarded to you
and you are no longer resident at that address,and give them the 3rd parties
address. Or reseal the envelope and write across it 'opened in error,addressee
no longer at this address.'

I was thinking writing back from my third party saying the letter has been forwarded to me (as you suggested) and then go from there... not being too tricky in the first mail so that they write back to the third party address thinking that he will pay up and then question them as waylander suggested.

I think if I write opened in error then they may just keep writing to me at that address. Alternatively they may go back to the OC for the new address...

by **daveiron** Sat Jul 22, 2023 7:50 pm

I was thinking writing back from my third party saying the letter has been forwarded to me (as you suggested) and then go from there..

That sounds the best option

by waylander62 Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:57 pm

i agree

i didn't know about the third party letter(s)

i would predict that moorcroft will either

i) go back to the OC and try and get enough information to put together a response

OR

ii) send it back to the OC and close your case with them

by **daveiron** Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:09 am

My thoughts are if using the 3rd party method is actually use a third party.
You can of course direct them how and what to do,rather you than pretend
to be a third party ,that could and probally would create confusion.

by flyingfish Sun Jul 23, 2023 2:34 pm

I'm not sure how far you can go with the third party, either real or imaginary. If it came to law, the claim would still be against you.

by brownowl Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:08 pm

I don't think I could convince a real third party to be part of this...
I know the claim would be against me and not the third party but if the alleged debtor has given authority for a third party to act on their behalf from a different address, then I don't think there is a law prohibiting that? I don't think they can issue ccj for the alleged debtor at an old address and/or the address of the third party?

Is there any law against someone else writing back to the debt collector offering to pay on behalf of the alleged debtor regarding the alleged account?

by flyingfish Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:22 pm

brownowl wrote: I don't think they can issue ccj for the alleged debtor at an old address

Service to last known address would be valid.

Is there any law against someone else writing back to the debt collector offering to pay on behalf of the alleged debtor regarding the alleged account?

I think it would be perfectly OK for someone to pay your debt for you. But if the third party is not actually offering to pay, but rather disputing liability then there's nothing to stop the creditor dealing with you.

Im assuming here that the third party has no legal status, not a court appointed guardian or trustee in bankruptcy for example.

by waylander62 Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:53 pm

what alternative realm are we entering into here ?

what is wrong with just dealing with the matter in hand in the best way possible ?

sorry had a long day but........ ?????

by brownowl Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:49 am

Thanks for the advice flyingfish and waylander. Do you suggest that I:

Just deal with it in the way suggested earlier by waylander (draw attention to the fact the account was closed and the fraud investigation was never resolved.) -

Write as myself, as if the third party letter never happened, the DCA won't have the information about the third party anyway however if they go back to the creditor etc, then the creditor and DCA suspicions may be raised.

I appreciate your knowledge and experience

by brownowl Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:18 am

flyingfish wrote:
brownowl wrote: I don't think they can issue ccj for the alleged debtor at an old address
Service to last known address would be valid.
Is there any law against someone else writing back to the debt collector offering to pay on behalf of the alleged debtor regarding the alleged account?
I think it would be perfectly OK for someone to pay your debt for you. But if the third party is not actually offering to pay, but rather disputing liability then there's nothing to stop the creditor dealing with you.

Im assuming here that the third party has no legal status, not a court appointed guardian or trustee in bankruptcy for example.

A third party would intervene and offer to pay by way of conditional acceptance. The third party is appointed using a letter of authority.

by brownowl Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:03 am

Thanks for the advice flyingfish, waylander, daveiron

I will deal with it in the way suggested earlier by waylander - draw attention to the fact the account was closed and the fraud investigation was never resolved.

However, should I either:

Write as myself, as if the third party letter never happened, the DCA won't have the information about the third party anyway however if they go back to the creditor etc, then the creditor and DCA suspicions may be raised.

Or write the same content but as the third party, and suggest that I would want to settle the account which will get them to engage with the third party.

I appreciate your knowledge and experience. I know it is all a game of monopoly!

by waylander62 Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:47 am

i would send it as yourself

not sure what you are trying to do as a third party ? for this reason you may want to get further opinions

by brownowl Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:13 pm

waylander62 wrote:i would send it as yourself

not sure what you are trying to do as a third party ? for this reason you may want to get further opinions

The point of a third party is to distract them away from your home address and also if anyone were to introduce you as a third party to pay a debt on behalf of someone else, the first thing you would naturally do, would be to ask "what exactly am i paying for?" Why would you pay for something when you don't know what your paying for after all?!

by waylander62 Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:22 pm

for 6 years ?

that is going to be a difficult one.

you would be better off if they sold it on.

by brownowl Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:49 pm

waylander62 wrote:for 6 years ?

that is going to be a difficult one.

you would be better off if they sold it on.

I am only going by what I was told on the webinar on youandyourcash. In fairness it seemed to work with another debt of mine.

This video previously posted by daveiron does half explain it
https://youtu.be/RjpZsAay1Eo

But I am interested in how it is done here... It would be great if it was sold on, does that usually happen after the DCA one letter is sent? Or does it have a ping ping between OC and debt collectors and get sold on eventually?

Does the one DCA notice work unlike others on the Internet because it is so original and quite amusing while being very serious because it addresses that a contract is needed. I just found it quite funny reading it Smile

Last question - if I say to the DCA that the original creditor had closed the account and referred to a fraud investigation in previous letters and then politely referring the DCA back to the OC, then am I making an admission to having an account with the OC rather than denying it's existence?

Thanks,

I appreciate I am an amateur and a bit of a pain and ask lots of questions.

by brownowl Sat Aug 26, 2023 6:25 pm

My latest correspondence with a debt collector on this alleged account. After it was passed on to them. I requested a SAR. They came back saying:

"Our client X bank remains the legal owner and data controller on the account. As such any SAR must be handled by X bank. This is in line with our contract with X bank and with GDPR. Your request has been passed on to X bank. We will also pass on any up to date data to our client, X bank, with regard to this account since our instruction."

I am pretty sure I can make a SAR to whoever I want?

Or am I wrong on that one?

Thanks

by flyingfish Sat Aug 26, 2023 6:41 pm

brownowl wrote:I am pretty sure I can make a SAR to whoever I want?

Or am I wrong on that one?

Thanks

You're correct, they shouldn't prejudge and assume you meant to send it to someone else. They should provide all the information that they hold on you.

That's assuming you requested "all information". If you asked for specific information, and they don't hold it but the OC might do, then there might be some excuse. Still not correct though, in that case they should have just said they don't hold that information.

by brownowl Sat Aug 26, 2023 9:13 pm

flyingfish wrote:
brownowl wrote:I am pretty sure I can make a SAR to whoever I want?

Or am I wrong on that one?

Thanks
You're correct, they shouldn't prejudge and assume you meant to send it to someone else. They should provide all the information that they hold on you.

That's assuming you requested "all information". If you asked for specific information, and they don't hold it but the OC might do, then there might be some excuse. Still not correct though, in that case they should have just said they don't hold that information.

I asked for the contract on which they rely to prove that there is any debt to pay and for all the information they hold on me. The letter was referring to the alleged debt with alleged creditor.

Even if they are acting on behalf of the original creditor, I have a right to see the data they have on me, and they shouldn't put it back on the original creditor...?

by flyingfish Sun Aug 27, 2023 6:10 am

You do have that right, but it sounds as if they don't think you asked for that. That's why the regulars on here always suggest a really simple DSAR letter just asking for "all information". If they're just a DCA and not a purchaser they wont have account information.

by brownowl Sun Aug 27, 2023 7:57 am

Thanks flying fish, I know they won't have any information, thats why I asked for it. It looks like they are trying to call my bluff by passing the buck. The original creditor won't even answer my SAR anyway.

The letter the DCA wrote didn't demand any money or talk of alleged debt, theyve also stopped calling, texting and sending letters...so I think I will just wait until I receive another letter and then re-ask for all information with a simple DSAR, (depending on the content if their letter.)

I also noticed that on my experian and clearscore have seen my credit amount drop off and the listing of the credit card seems to have disappeared... and my credit score seems to have gone up 700 points. I know we don't care about credit scores but seems like something going on there!

by **daveiron** Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:10 am

They are a seperate legal entity, they hold some of your personal data,
They must supply whatever they hold.

I presume you went the NoCA route ,in which case it may be difficult for the
OC to sell it on unless they give the purchaser full disclosure.

I would guess you will either get 1 or 2 DCs or it will just go very quiet
( thats what is happening with my last one, not heard from anyone in over
a year).

by brownowl Sun Aug 27, 2023 4:53 pm

daveiron wrote:They are a seperate legal entity, they hold some of your personal data,
They must supply whatever they hold.

I presume you went the NoCA route ,in which case it may be difficult for the
OC to sell it on unless they give the purchaser full disclosure.

I would guess you will either get 1 or 2 DCs or it will just go very quiet
( thats what is happening with my last one, not heard from anyone in over
a year).

That is what I thought - they are a separate legal entity so should provide me with the data they have on me. Is there a specific bit of legislation to quote, perhaps article 15 of gdpr?

I did the NoCA route with original creditor, all ignored and now with a DCA so I sent the DCA a DSAR. The letter contained no demand for payment, it was just a reply from the data controller. So should I just wait to see if they write again and then start the NoCA process again with the DCA? My suspicion is that it will go quiet.

Would there be a reason why the credit card has disappeared from my credit report and my score gone up 700 points? The only thing I would think is that the debt has been wiped?

Thanks

by flyingfish Sun Aug 27, 2023 6:59 pm

If this heats back up it would be worth a CCA request to whoever is looking like they might go legal. There have been a couple recently here reporting cases dropped as a result. Most likely to be effective with a debt purchaser.

by **daveiron** Sun Aug 27, 2023 7:01 pm

If the DC has failed to comply with your DSAR inform them that unless
they comply ,they will be reported to the ICO.
Dont forget you have no contract with any DC ,just inform them of such.
The OC has tacitly accepted that no debt exists.

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