Debt . Third Man

by brownowl Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:11 pm

Hi all, I have an alleged debt. This time I have chosen to go with the third man option as suggested by YAYC.

If you don't know this is where you send a Letter of Authority to the OC/DCA so that someone can intervene on your behalf in your financial affairs. There is no law against this. You then direct them to a mailbox with an alter ego who is intervening for you and then take it from there.

The OC has written to me by email saying that this information is not sufficient and they need to contact me by phone since I no longer reside at the address they have for me.

I have previously instructed them not to write to me by email. Should I email a Cease and Desist email and remind them that there is no law against using a Letter of Authority and that a Letter is all they need and does not need to be done by them calling them and providing them with ID? They are basically saying I need to provide a Letter of Authority but it needs to be done there way (I suspect they are just calling my bluff as they know where this is heading.)

Any thoughts welcomed.

by brownowl Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:01 pm

Regardless of the "third man"

How do you respond when banks email you?

by Sam97 Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:17 pm

Do not send a cease and desist via email as you are telling them you do not accept emails. Write a notice to them stating all correspondence is via Royal Mail and addressed correctly (as you have specified) in this notice you also state that you do not take phone calls and that all correspondence is hard copy via Royal Mail with their full name & wet ink signature. You are the creditor to the UK & it's business partners and to your debtor 'person' therefore you are the principal & they are the agent, the only letter of authority is one signed by the creditor & principle stating how one wishes to proceed in this matter, they are subservient to the principal in their role as agent/representative of the corporation.

by brownowl Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:04 pm

Sam97 wrote:Do not send a cease and desist via email as you are telling them you do not accept emails. Write a notice to them stating all correspondence is via Royal Mail and addressed correctly (as you have specified) in this notice you also state that you do not take phone calls and that all correspondence is hard copy via Royal Mail with their full name & wet ink signature. You are the creditor to the UK & it's business partners and to your debtor 'person' therefore you are the principal & they are the agent, the only letter of authority is one signed by the creditor & principle stating how one wishes to proceed in this matter, they are subservient to the principal in their role as agent/representative of the corporation.

Thanks for the reply. My letter of authority was something along the lines of:

"Dear Sirs,

I have asked my friend John Smith from XYZ Company, to resolve this “matter” for me.

I am of ill health and out of state for the foreseable. Thus, I hereby authorise John Smith to obtain information from you BANK NAME, in order that he may establish the facts and, where necessary, oversee the settlement and closure.

This letter therefore provides you with authority to release any information to John Smith, without having to constantly seek my permission to do so.

This letter of authority shall endure until such time as I say otherwise.

If you refuse to accept this letter of authority, kindly explain why, in writing, citing the law upon which you rely.

Please contact John Smith at 1 The Street, The Town, City, Post Code (MY MAILBOX ADDRESS)

Any mail sent to my former address will be undelivered as I no longer reside there, hence the reason for this LOA.

SIGNED
Formerly of address 2 the street etc"

Thereofore, do I send the notice that you describe from John Smith?

by Sam97 Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:43 pm

I haven't researched the third person strategy, however if you are stating that you have asked a friend to act on your behalf in this matter due to ill health then you need to sign it from you as it is you that is giving the authority to your friend to act on your behalf, I would put his address at the bottom centre of the notice under his name, which is placed below your name & signature which goes on the right hand side (creditor side) you add 'All rights reserved' underneath your signature & if possible touch on the letter 'r' in the word rights with your signature, but don't cover the word. Obviously at the top of the notice is the bank address top left, but not your address at the top, just your friends address at the bottom. I personally would not give them the option to explain why they won't accept your authority, as imo they are not in a position to decline your authority to nominate someone to act on your behalf, however as I'm not aware of the whole matter it's what you feel is right.

by brownowl Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:33 pm

Sam97 wrote:I haven't researched the third person strategy, however if you are stating that you have asked a friend to act on your behalf in this matter due to ill health then you need to sign it from you as it is you that is giving the authority to your friend to act on your behalf, I would put his address at the bottom centre of the notice under his name, which is placed below your name & signature which goes on the right hand side (creditor side) you add 'All rights reserved' underneath your signature & if possible touch on the letter 'r' in the word rights with your signature, but don't cover the word. Obviously at the top of the notice is the bank address top left, but not your address at the top, just your friends address at the bottom. I personally would not give them the option to explain why they won't accept your authority, as imo they are not in a position to decline your authority to nominate someone to act on your behalf, however as I'm not aware of the whole matter it's what you feel is right.

All done as you have said. Funnily enough the email they communicated to is actually the name of my "friend" who is acting on my behalf so they actually emailed him... I think I will just write another notice from my friend saying something like, "The letter of authority is sufficient and valid. As my client has told you he is out of the country, therefore I am acting on his behalf in a signed letter of authority. You will not be able to contact him and the only way to discharge the alleged debt will be through me, acting on his behalf, but as you do not wish to accept the LOA then I guess you do not want me to pay. I am willing to settle this matter for my friend, providing you send me the contract that he signed so I know what I am paying for."

by brownowl Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:52 am

I've received a letter from the bank to myself stating that they cannot liaise with my third party due to GDPR.

They sent the letter to my address which I stated was my former address, since I was going abroad, hence the reason for my third party intervening

So:
1. Is GDPR and Data Protection sufficient for them to not accept my LOA
2. How would they know I got the letter
3. Should I ignore that since they have received my LOA and should legally accept it and by refusing it they are stopping any resolution happening.

It seems the third man is not a straight forward as I thought. However, by them not accepting my LOA is not my problem should it be sufficient, they are just trying to avoid what they know is coming?

by waylander62 Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:24 pm

not really sue about the 'third man' bit ?

however i have just started out on a similar path for someone else, it appears yours is still with the original creditor wheras i am dealing with a debt vulture ( buyer ).

The way i approached it was different, i personally wrote to the DCA and explained the ill/ mental health of the debtor, i then told them that i and only i was to be contacted and in writing only. I did this and made it clear that this would be the case, i really left them little option but to reply to ME and NOT the 'debtor'.

attached to the letter was a very simple consent form containing the signature, printed name of the 'debtor' and the date. worded simply with :

I, debtor, give my authority and consent that waylander62 is to deal with the above referenced alleged account on my behalf.

the debtor has heard nothing further all calls and text messages have stopped and no letters. However i have received a letter acknowledging acceptance of dealing with me from now on addressed to me and putting things on hold for 60 days.

Now.... let the fun begin .....

by **daveiron** Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:55 pm

I presume it was you who posed the question last night with Simon,in which
case follow waylanders and simon advice ,Remember to also be aware of the
log-in trap as mentioned by Si.

by brownowl Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:49 pm

daveiron wrote:I presume it was you who posed the question last night with Simon,in which
case follow waylanders and simon advice ,Remember to also be aware of the
log-in trap as mentioned by Si.

It wasn't me who asked the question but seems like I am not the only one with this problem. Just gone through the live stream. Since I have not replied to the email and won't, they have sent a letter to my "formerly of" address claiming due to GDPR and DPA they cannot speak to my third man, unless he fills in their form and sends them ID. But I don't believe there is anything in the law stating that I need to fill in their form and third man needs to send ID. They are just trying to tie me down to their account as Spaniard said in the stream.

I am writing back including something I found out:

Consumer Credit Handbook says this: 7.12 Lenders responsibilities in relation to debt

7.12.2. Unfair business practices:
A firm must not:

(1) Refuse to deal with a not-for-profit debt advice body, debt counsellor, debt adjuster or with another person acting on behalf of a customer, unless there is an objectively justifiable reason for doing so;

(2) Unless the credit agreement requires payments to be made to a third party, refuse to accept a payment tendered to the firm by the customer or by a person acting on behalf of the customer;

(4) Where a person is acting on behalf of a customer, directly contact the customer without the customer's consent, unless there is an objectively justifiable reason for doing so;

(5) Operate a policy: of refusing to negotiate with certain third parties

by **daveiron** Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:53 pm

You seem to have it well covered.Good stuff.

by brownowl Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:24 am

So, I just got sent a letter from the OC with the so called Disclosure of Authority, it happens that they were not wanting ID. It is just a form to fill in with name and address of third party which is in the 'insufficient' letter of authority. The only difference is that they ask for:

telephone, date of birth and mothers maiden name. They don't need to know this since I will not be communicating with them via telephone anyway.

Then it says:

"You must tick the box for instructions to be accepted:

Balance confirmation
Settlement figure
Details of account queries
Request copy of statements
Discuss all aspects of my account
Discus any other account"

Well I think that was all covered in my Letter of Authority when I said that my third party can discuss everything

The kicker is that at the bottom it has thus:

"You must tick the box for us to be able to complete the following actions based on your nomincated third party instruction (this is relevant only when the account has fallen into arrears)

Agree and set up arrangements to pay
Agree and set up full and final settlement"

Excuse me but how can I agree to to pay anything before you proved there is anything to pay?

by **daveiron** Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:35 pm

Thats the exact trap Si was talking about.

by **Mrblue2015** Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:02 am

(Moved to 'Debt' section)

by brownowl Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:41 pm

Received an email saying they closed my account with no further action. That was quick.

by **daveiron** Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:24 pm

They knew what was coming next. Well done.

by brownowl Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:14 pm

On second thoughts, the email says,
They couldn't except the letter of authority. They had to do it another way, they sent a letter but they couldn't send more info via email and could not contact me at my old residence and said, "with no way to move forward, I'll be closing your case with our office with no further action taken."

They either mean they are closing my account or they are closing my case of wanting to have a third party?

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