DCAs Who Act As Agents

Hi, I understand that members on here share their experiences and give free advice which many times I have been glad of so this post is not intended to insult or offend anyone but I just thought I would bring up some important points about DCAs who have not bought the accounts and are only acting as agents

As mentioned in a couple of other posts I stopped asking for advice on the old GOODF as the only reply I was ever getting was "ignore" which I strongly disagree with. Now I have also seen a couple of replies of this nature on this new forum

One of the most common ones is members saying we should ignore DCAs who are just agents (moorcrap, freddy etc) simply because they can't take you to court. Any member who is of that opinion I really have to differ with them on that one

For one thing court isn't everything. These "agents" may not be able to take you to court but they can plague you with letters, phone calls, text messages, emails and just about other way they can find to annoy you, this can go on for years, no kidding. So they can be enough to drive you up the walls without ever going near a court. So some might say they can be "safely" ignored but I'm not saying they are dangerous all I'm saying they are a plain nuisance and I don't see why using the letters on them to chase them off would be a problem. It has worked for me many times

I personally would never ignore anyone claiming I owe them money, be it an OC, an agent, or debt purchaser. I find the agents much more of a nuisance than the purchasers. I mean if you were recieving nasty or abusive phone calls and text messages from some person you had a fall out with chances are that person couldn't take you to court either but does that mean you should ignore them? Of course not!

The other replies I have read mainly on the old forum is that you should ignore unless they threaten legal action (which probably could of been avoided) then you should use this pre-action protocol thing. Then I read the pre-action protocol thing is only suitable in England and Wales. So obviously no use to me as I'm in Northern Ireland and I've seen posts from other members who are in Scotland and even some from outside the UK. I would like to think everyone is welcome to get help here regardless of where they live

The old GOODF was a great help before these "ignore" replies started. It's like saying "we have all the info we need on here to fight back at these scumbags but just don't use it"

To be honest I have never heard of anyone here in Northern Ireland being taken to court for debt as it would probably cost the creditors/dcas too much as we have our own court system and we don't have the likes of the Northampton bulk centre, we don't have bailiffs either

But as I explained just because they can't or won't take you to court that's not to say they won't pester you and if they do you certainly shouldn't ignore them

No offense to anyone on here

I'm a big believer of ignoring as up to now it has worked for me. Well I say worked for me, it's my son who had all the debt at my address. He has no bad marks on his credit file where he lives now and it can't be much longer before any debt he had at my house will become statute barred. I haven't had any letters from a dca for quite a while now, but at the beginning I was getting 2 or 3 letters a week and I couldn't work out which debt the dca's were chasing in the end. I think different dca's tried to collect the same debt. I value my time so wasn't going to waste it writing to anyone if I didn't have to as I knew the debt's weren't for me. I think having the same name confuses them, when I had a mortgage it showed on his credit reference file not mine. I've never had any letters yet that threatened Court only letters that said they would take further legal action, which to me meant nothing.

Hi discodave,

I could not agree more.The only things i ignore are the phone calls.
I must admit I did enjoy playing with the DCA's to see how long before they give up and pass the account back.

I believe it must be an advantage to keep asking whoever happens to be chasing you at the time to provide their proof of claim. Should it ever get as far as court ,part of your defence should be.I have repeatedly on xx occasions requested proof of claim so i may settle this matter .However no one can or will provide such proof of claim.

I am glad the penny has dropped for you Disco Dave !

Never ignore, ever, phone calls yes, unless you want to record the calls for a harassment claim.

The reason why ignoring correspondence is dangerous is because, when you lose the ability to prove you have attempted to settle any controversy of an alleged debtor-creditor relationship on the private side you enter into the culpable realm of unclean hands.

Ignore creditors at your peril.

Always attempt to resolve issues on the private side.

I think it's possible that the main reason for the 'ignore' advise has got lost over time.

The main point of it is that if you send in the 3 letters that's a very firm and quick indication you're not paying, so the debt quickly gets rolled through the various collectors and very quickly sold on.

If you don't respond, don't engage and treat them with the contempt they deserve by ignoring them they don't know what to do so they prevaricate, which brings you one step (day) closer to the debt being Statute Barred (especially in Scotland where it's 5 years instead of 6) and that's really the ultimate goal and hence where the advice to ignore came from.

The other point is people get stressed about these letters and worry about them, they're nothing. ignoring for a lot of people is quite empowering.

Point taken Tiggy but imputed or constructive notice can deal with future agents and assignees if Notice is perfected, that is the point ignorance is contingent upon preceding action, inaction should never be a starting point.

The way I look at it is you wouldn't answer a Nigerian scam letter so why would you answer one from anyone else. Maybe the difference for me is the fact I know for certain that I have never had any loans or credit cards nor overdrafts or nothing, so for me I also know they couldn't prove or supply anything with my signature on as I have never signed nothing. To me any letters like that are just a scam letter and the advice from trading standards and citizens advice is to ignore them and never to reply. I might if I get anymore of these letters report them to action fraud.
I got a tv licence letter this morning that goes straight in the recycle bin the same as all the other ones they have sent me for the last 35 years and I've lived in the same house for the last 30 years and have never ever contacted them and have never had to go court, actually they don't even have my name the letters come to the occupier even now after all this time.
The only time I wouldn't ignore is if Court is threatened then I would respond accordingly.

Hi discodave. If the dca was or is only an agent that we can ignore. If they keep calling you that you can block them as they are only agents. As jinxer says if they are a debt purchaser and threaten court then you respond but as agents you could get a cheap phone and put that phone on silence and you can check out who has called you once a week. Just remember to let family and friends and work know your new number.

It's good to see some other members on here understand what I'm saying. As for the stressed out part my way of looking at that would be if a child was stressed out because he/she was being bullied at school you wouldn't advise him/her to ignore the bullies simply because the bullies couldn't take him/her to court. So it can be helpful to think of debt collectors as the school bullies of the adult world

No way would I change my mobile number for any debt collector in the world as it was the number my late dad used for years, why would I let those scumbags force me to change it. I have a really good template letter for anyone bothered by phone calls, texts etc if anyone wants it

When all is said and done all debt collectors are only agents whether or not they have bought the account and as I mentioned in my original post court action is highly unlikely over here anyway

discodave4093 wrote:It's good to see some other members on here understand what I'm saying. As for the stressed out part my way of looking at that would be if a child was stressed out because he/she was being bullied at school you wouldn't advise him/her to ignore the bullies simply because the bullies couldn't take him/her to court. So it can be helpful to think of debt collectors as the school bullies of the adult world

No way would I change my mobile number for any debt collector in the world as it was the number my late dad used for years, why would I let those scumbags force me to change it. I have a really good template letter for anyone bothered by phone calls, texts etc if anyone wants it

When all is said and done all debt collectors are only agents whether or not they have bought the account and as I mentioned in my original post court action is highly unlikely over here anyway

one the standard tactics here is to write to the perps and tell them that you will communicate with them in writing only, no other form of communication will be responded to. Any further communications in other forms may constitute unconscionable conduct under the respective law and formal complaints will be made if unconscionable conduct or harassment continues.

its never a good idea to talk to them by phone or face to face because sooner or later you will say something you regret so the best response to these forms of communication is TOTAL dead silence and absolutely nothing more. They will soon get the message.

Perhaps you might like to consider this course of action. hope this helps

Hi discodave. Who is this agent working for? Are they working for the OC or another dca?
Thanks for telling us why you will never change your number and i am sorry for suggesting you to do so as i would not do so either.
As this dca is working as an agent that whoever has employed them is responsible as they have given the dca agent the go ahead. Write to both agent and their employer that you are reporting them both to the proper authorites for harrassment as you got evidence to back your claim. The employer has to take responsibility for the actions of their employee. This could be a way of stopping all these calls and letters.

Hi,

my own experience with these scum to date has only been 1 really of harassment. Approx 3 weeks ago sent last letter to DCA stating as there is no deed of assignment/novation they have NO claim, as they are only acting representatives then again NO claim. Have stated as someone else put in another thread ONLY the OC NOT DCA will get paid! Not herd a peep since, possibly early days so will have to wait & see!

Hi, Most of the time they are working for the OC, the phone calls etc seem to have stopped for now anyway, I usually use the 3 letters on both the OC and the DCAs and if they insist on calling' texting etc I send them this letter that I got from Celicia

Dear Interloper
,

Despite my letter regarding ANY communication from your company, which stated that I require ALL communications in writing, your telephone calls/texts/emails continue.

This behaviour constitutes harassment; the letters stated quite clearly to you that I require ALL communications in writing for future Court use. Do not telephone/text/email me again - remove any telephone numbers/email addresses you hold for me from your systems.

Your telephone calls/texts/emails are in breach of the Financial Conduct Authority regulations. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to the Financial Conduct Authority, Financial Ombudsman Service and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are recorded/texts and emails saved.

Under the Financial Conduct Authority rules, the following applies:

7.9.4: A firm must not contact customers at unreasonable times and must pay
due regard to the reasonable requests of customers(for example, customers
who work in a shift pattern) in respect of when, where and how they may
be contacted.

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, has now been submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

Take further note that continued telephone calls/texts/emails after the receipt of a request not to call/text/email may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. Also, be aware that if you continue to contact me in this excessive manner, stating you can resume calls after a certain period, or whenever you like I will take legal action against (Compamy Name) personally under vicarious liability under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997. Nevertheless, if the calls/texts/emails do not cease I will take legal action under the aforementioned Act.

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

I trust that I have made myself understood on this matter,

Yours sincerely

Hi everyone, this is a very interesting thread but I am a bit confused as this is all quite new to me. What exactly is a DCA? I presume it stands for Debt Collection Agency? How does one know if one is dealing with a DCA or with a debt purchaser? And would you deal with each one differently?

On the one hand I agree with Tiggy that ignoring a DCA brings you closer to the debt being statute barred, yet on the other hand I read that one should ignore "at my peril". I must admit that sending the letters does give me peace of mind because all the telephone harrassment stops.

As an example I am on my 2nd 3-letter stint, now with Freddy. The first was Westy who obviously passed it back. As soon as Freddy sent me a letter, I responded immediately with letter number 1. Should I have ignored them for a longer period before starting the 3 letter process?

From what exact date do they start counting the 5 or 6 years for a debt to be statute barred? Is it the from the date of the last payment to the bank/credit card etc? Or is it from the date of my last correspondence/letter to the bank/credit card company? Or is it something else?

A final question please, in your collective experiences, how many DCA's does it go through on average before they give up?

Sorry about all these multiple questions but I would really like to learn the ropes.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Joe
Yes you are correct DCA stands for debt collection agency and OC means original creditor. Examples of agents are moorcroft, freddy, bpo etc and examples of purchasers are lowell, cabot, pra group etc. Some members might treat them differently but I treat them all the same, I find the 3 letters work nicely for all or them

I think you did the right thing by starting the letters staight away with freddy as freddy are one of the easiest ones to chase off and are actually part of the lowell group

Different people do things different ways but as I mentioned in my original post I never ignore anyone contacting me claiming I owe them money, I would much rather fight back

Oh and I forgot to answer your question about the statute barred date. It's normally 6 years from the default date or 5 if you live in Scotland

Thanks discodave, this is all very useful and helpful information, much appreciated.