DISGRACEFUL BEHAVIOUR OF NOTTINGHAMSHIRE POLICE ACTING ON A FRAUDULENT WARRANT

Hi Jinxer

Isn't that guardian link referring to 'legals'? i think this is more about 'lawfuls', don't you?

Cheers!

Hi iamani,

Good suggestion re the Chief Constable /citizens arrest ,Why don't you give it a go ? I have made a complaint to Nottingham Police professional standards .I will post response if/when i get one.

iamani wrote:Hi Jinxer

Isn't that guardian link referring to 'legals'? i think this is more about 'lawfuls', don't you?

Cheers!

I don't know I get lost and mixed up easily lol

Jinxer wrote:I find it very hard to believe anyone could justify making a Citizen's Arrest for trespass and even harder to believe you could do it to a Police Officer without suffering severe consequences. Is trespass even criminal to warrant an arrest.

http://swarb.co.uk/davis-v-lisle-ca-1936/

DAVIS V LISLE: CA 1936

February 14, 2017 dls 0 Police, Torts - Other,

References: [1936] 2 KB 434, [1936] 2 All ER 213
Coram: Lord Hewart CJ, Goddard J
Ratio: Two police officers, one in plain clothes and the other in uniform, passed by a lorry causing an obstruction in the highway outside a garage. Two men were repairing it. Some minutes later they returned and saw that the lorry had been moved into the garage. They entered the garage to enquire as to the person responsible for the obstruction. The appellant then entered the garage from the street, pushing past PC Rose and saying: ‘What’s this? What do you want here?’; to which P.C. Rose replied: ‘My colleague is a police constable. May we see the person in charge of this vehicle?’ The appellant then in abusive and obscene language said: ‘Get outside – you can’t come here without a search warrant.’ The respondent was in the act of producing his warrant card when the appellant rushed at him and struck him. He was convicted of assaulting and obstructing a police officer in the execution of his duty.
Held: Both convictions were quashed. A permission given to enter private property may be revoked, making the visitor a trespasser who is under a duty to leave. The act of producing his warrant card was an assertiion by the officer of a right to remain on the premises, which right he did not have. Therefore he could not be acting in the execution of his duty, having hesitated and not leaving promptly when told to leave.
Goddard J held that although the officers, in entering the premises, were not trespassers, they became so as soon as they were told to leave and claimed a right to stay. From that time they were acting other than in the execution of their duty.
Lord Hewart CJ held that by the act of producing his warrant card, the respondent was asserting a right to remain on the premises, which right he did not have.
Jurisdiction: England and Wales
This case is cited by:

Cited – Wayne Fullard, Ryan Roalfe, Regina (on the Application Of) v Woking Magistrates’ Court Admn (Bailii, [2005] EWHC 2922 (Admin))
The defendants challenged convictions for assaulting police officers acting in the course of their duty. They said the officers were not so acting. The first defendant had been stopped in a vehicle which had left the scene of an accident. At the . .
Cited – Blench v Director of Public Prosecutions Admn (Bailii, [2004] EWHC 2717 (Admin))
The defendant appealed against his conviction for assaulting a police officer in the execution of his duty under section 89. He had argued that he had no case to answer. The officers had received an emergency call to the house, but the female caller . .
(This list may be incomplete)
Leading Case
Last Update: 14 February 2017
Ref: 241690

Hi all

daveiron - i would love to, and I will. But not just now, for reasons i can't go into at this time......

Jinxer - to be fair i've yet to check it out, i made an assumption due to the link having 'legal' at the end.

ceylon - excellent! How encouraging is that? Good find and post, thanks.

Cheers!

available on here https://goodf.forumotion.com/t656-uk-case-law-database

Celon that is a great find but don't kick me in ballcocks here. In the original video a warrant of entry was shown, I understand how it's being said the warrant is illegal but the Police wouldn't know that and isn't part of a Constables duty to execute a warrant. So would the Police be acting properly then or would they still be acting outside of their duty.

Hi all

Jinxer - absolutely right fella, it isn't part of the constable's duty to execute the warrant whether it's fake or not. For the constable to take part in the 'civil' proceedings is a breach of oath and outside of his duty. Especially after being 'Noticed'.

Cheers!

iamani wrote:Hi all

Jinxer  -  absolutely right fella, it isn't part of the constable's duty to execute the warrant whether it's fake or not. For the constable to take part in the 'civil' proceedings is a breach of oath and outside of his duty. Especially after being 'Noticed'.

Cheers!

Ah yeah the key here then is CIVIL because the warrant is civil then the Constable can't help out. In criminal matters or a criminal warrant then they can get involved. Sorry for being a pain but were getting there in the end.

https://ceaa.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Police-Handout-Feb-2017.pdf

I've just found this and it's a quite disturbing read, but this is how they are being trained.

Hi Jinxer

Nice one, i'll check that out tomorrow (so i don't have nightmares!).

Cheers!

Hi jinxer,

The way I see it is .The claim was made to the constables that the warrant was unlawful .On that basis it is their duty & obligation to investigate that.
You would expect even them to ascertain that fact even just to cover their own arse

Jinxer wrote:Celon that is a great find but don't kick me in ballcocks here. In the original video a warrant of entry was shown, I understand how it's being said the warrant is illegal but the Police wouldn't know that and isn't part of a Constables duty to execute a warrant. So would the Police be acting properly then or would they still be acting outside of their duty.

Ignorance of the law is no exuse.

daveiron wrote:Hi jinxer,

The way I see it is .The claim was made to the constables that the warrant was unlawful .On that basis it is their duty & obligation to investigate that.

You would expect even them to ascertain that fact even just to cover their own arse

So this is an opportunity to put the squeeze on the cops. The question become one how and under what law and under what section of that law.

The cause of action is that the constable/s failed to exercise due care in the discharge of their duties to enure an action they took was compliant with the xys Act and cyz Regulations.

Remember people, there is no law that exempts police from the law.

Perhaps the way to initiate an action against a constable is to make a statement of truth (affidavit) that the police officer committed a tort by failing inspecting the warrant upon request and assisted other public officials to cause harm to a citizen and contributed to an injury to the plaintiff by aiding and abetting a miscarriage of justice.

There must be laws in the UK providing for private prosecutions.

Just in case any one might think that I'm ranting on and teaching people to suck eggs, I am merely trying to show HOW we can fight back by sizing on police failures and abuses and learn to use the system back against them in court. By doing this we are pushing back in a way they can do little about and success leads to further success and more people doing it.

For the last year or more I have been listening to a weekly broadcast by two blokes one of whom is an ex cop. This bloke once took a $2.50 excess charge by his landlord, all the way to the High Court in aus and won, just to prove he could do it.

It proves this bloke has a lot of knowledge of aus laws and knows what he's doing. Anyway, I have now learned such an amount of knowledge from him and his offsider ho is an expert in the aus constitution that I will no longer crap myself if i get pulled up by a cop and feel like an animal caught in the headlights.

I will do all I can to keep my trap shut. I will not argue the point with a cop on the side of the road. I will merely make polite denials of any allegations and remain silent on other matters. I will definitely force them to take me to court so I can be the accused instead of the accuser. I have a shit load of material on my computer I have collected that will give me a very good chance of beating a speeding charge, parking fine and the like.

Going to a magistrates court is entry level education (which I think everyone these days should have) in how to defend oneself legally speaking.

I may not win the first few times but through experience I will get better and then start to win. Because I will be the defendant (victim) my costs will be low because I only have to pay for the lodgement of a few documents. I won't need a lire for hire to "represent me." if I win i will claim costs.

One of the best ways of learning the laws that apply to a given subject is start by reading the definitions at the front of an Act and Regulations. This itself is empowering.

Get a legal dictionary such as Blacks law and the earlier the better, (maxim, first in law is best in law) and learn and learn and learn. Young people have EVERYTHING to learn and little to lose.

Lets all take a leaf out of Tiggy's leadership and paste the relevant sections of an Act or Regulation in their posts. This is a great way for readers to learn laws relevant to their problems.

hope this helps

That's what the key is here to establish how the warrant issued by the Magistrates Court is illegal. I agree the warrant looks suspect and it's nothing like a warrant issued by the Queens Bench Division or the High Court, but never the less these are the warrants the utility companies are using and they are issued by the Magistrate and they are signed even if the signature is illegible in most cases.
I've been in the Court room when one of these warrants get issued as would you of celon and the other guys who fight these things. Yes you can sometimes delay the warrant from being issued but in the end they get ya. So how are the warrants illegal, lets start with that or should we start a new thread about it.

Jinxer wrote:https://ceaa.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Police-Handout-Feb-2017.pdf

I've just found this and it's a quite disturbing read, but this is how they are being trained.

I found this bit interesting,

"Where a Writ of Control has been issued by the High Court/County Court the Enforcement Agent for
the purpose of recovering a sum payable may use reasonable force to enter any commercial
premises or any property that the Enforcement Agent reasonably believes that the debtor carries on a
Trade or Business on the premises.
Note: Reasonable Force may not be used directly against a person""

So warrants only aplly to a Place of Trade or Buisness ?

That Link could contain quite a few useful things,

Yes mine was a commercial building and by the time I got there they were already inside with the Police in attendance and I never even had an electricity meter that had already been took out by EON. They then dug the pavement up to disconnect the wire and really they didn't need to come into the building to do that. The only reason they wanted in the building was they couldn't work out how we were getting electric with no meter and they still don't know now how we do it. It was a picture when they were finished and said to me that was the end of the matter now and they would never need to come back and I then turned all the lights on and machinery started working, I really wish I had his face on video but my son the twonk who was videoing it on his ipad didn't press the record button.
I just found this case but haven't read it yet but I think it may help in future
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/46.html

https://www.ukpolicelawblog.com/index.php/14-general/42-search-warrants-avoiding-the-pitfalls
This made good reading but not sure if this would apply to a warrant of entry rather than a search warrant.
My son was arrested with one of his mates for kidnap a couple of years ago, which was a stupid joke that went wrong. The Police knew within 15 minutes of the incident that it was all a joke but still insisted on arresting them and carrying out section 18 searches on 4 properties and searches of vehicles. They were both released after 12 hours in custody and kept on bail for months and in the end were charged with section 4a public order offence and obstructing a constable in the execution of his duty. We tried to get it to Crown Court but were refused and in the end the prosecutor dropped all the charges and the Magistrates dismissed the case. I tried to find a Solicitor to make a claim but none I spoke to were interested so it just got left to side. I still believe there is a case to make but my son can't be bothered to try and follow it through now its all over.

To my mind ,I think what may be key is that they only contain something that may or may not be a signature.
But never the name of who's signature it is.

I do not mind doing a FOI request for this info ,Who should it be to Justice minister ?

The MOJ perhaps Dave, I would also expect the form of a warrant would be found in the Magistrates Court Act.

I think this thread needs some perspective, if peoples chains are getting yanked here, it will be because of a lack of focus, Keep the Plod a separate thread and keep this one what it is, warrants for entry.

I am surprised this has become a bit of a hoohaa again after Kevin Mark cleared this up last year as filmed by Ceylon for his YT channel,
lets go back to it and listen again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QnQerNu_v8

and hopefully get this sorted for good.

Hi candor,

Thanks for the link i will watch it again now.

I think its time we obtained the exact specs for all types of warrants as the issue of "fake warrants " is brought up time & time again.
I will do an FOI over the weekend or early next week .
I am pretty sure in my mind what to ask for & i like to word my requests so not to give them any wriggle room.

If any one has any specific questions to be asked ,please post them,
hopefully we can put this to bed.

I was told or read somewhere that a warrant could be wrote on a scrap of paper if need be but it did have to have a signature but that could just be a squiggle.



How did this one turn out I don't think there has been an update to this yet. I have a funny feeling the warrant was allowed and has now been executed.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/magistrates_court_warrant_of_ent
Here is a freedom of information link for a similar question we need answering.

Hi jinxer,
Thanks for that,

i will try to dig around to get the info on what exactly is required to be on a warrant .If it must be handed over for inspection .If the name of the judge / magi is required on it as well as a signature etc.

There is obviously a reason why there is a reluctance for these warrants to be examined.