Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Council - best approach

by Winston Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:22 am

Good morning all - very good friend just got a PCN from local council - after looking over the site the best advice I've found thus far is the BOVEAT letters - is this understanding correct, or have better/alternatives approaches been used recently? Any and all advice on this most appreciated. Thank you.

by **LionsShare** Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:35 am

please watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jboD8yw-ZJU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhzZ-f93fVw

this is from US but with altered wording could work here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmqVVeVNP8Q

by Winston Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:40 am

Thank you very much LionsShare for this information - the BoE is the remedy unquestionably, whether the Council et al opt to respect the law via this method is another thing altogether. Previous attempts using the BOVEAT letters did work albeit it took over a year for the debt collection letters to stop (for a ticket for 40 quid) - that was via a so-called private parking company. Again, thank you.

by **assassin** Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:26 am

Note the wording the guy uses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by flyingfish Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:17 pm

assassin wrote:Note the wording the guy uses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Strange advice isn't it - pay "without prejudice" then raise a claim to try and get it back? Also of course he's speaking about a private parking ticket so his comments don't necessarily apply to a council ticket which is the subject of this thread.

by **LionsShare** Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:04 pm

pay "without prejudice" - does that mean pay without admitting liability? seems very odd.

by **daveiron** Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:28 pm

Yes ,Its easy to see why this is the guy that MSM & the BBC in particular
call upon for debt advice.

by man Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:00 pm

I'm starting to think that the courts are being told that if any debt is being presented to be discharged by any Claimant, the courts are to side with the Claimant. If that is the case, shouldn't we become Claimants against these Debt Collectors?

by **LionsShare** Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:12 pm

man wrote:I'm starting to think that the courts are being told that if any debt is being presented to be discharged by any Claimant, the courts are to side with the Claimant. If that is the case, shouldn't we become Claimants against these Debt Collectors?

Possibly the only way forward is as you state become claimant. Certainly when asking for someone to sign who takes commercial liability for stated contents for a communique then a reply is generally not signed, if signed there is no name, if a name then no signiture, if signed & a name then they don't work there anymore etc. No one will take responsibility - that's my experience dealing with utilities.

Trying to pin these scum down is the main problem I think.

by flyingfish Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:24 pm

Don't forget this is a council ticket. Assuming your friend hasn't appealed or his appeal was unsuccessful, the subsequent enforcement process is pretty much automatic. Unlike a private ticket where they would have to raise and win court proceedings.

What stage is this at, what has he received so far?

by man Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:17 pm

What's the Cause of Action with debt collectors in general though. Remember no Cause of Action, no case. You'd think the only Cause of Action could be Breach of Contract, and with Breach of Contract you have to prove there is a Contract between te parties and that there was a quantifiable loss.

Even if debt collectors prove a contract then the only loss they can go after people for is what they paid for the alleged debt, which as we know is pennies in the pound. No way can they go after the full amount they ask you for as that's asking you to pay a huge profit.

If you look up Breach of Contract, you can't ask for profit as going to court is about putting things back as they were, as if the Breach of Contract never occurred.

by flyingfish Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:42 pm

This is a council ticket so not a contractual matter. The framework derives from the Traffic Management Act 2004 and "The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007". There will also be a local order which is effectively the particular Council "opting in".

As an aside I am not so sure that a civil contractual claim can't account for profit. For example if a contract says you need to pay £200, and you don't, then the court claim would be for that £200 and I've never heard of a court asking for that to be justified by in terms of costs and losses etc. Maybe you're thinking of liquidated damages.

by man Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:29 pm

I was talking about general debt collectors that have purchased the debt and then being taken to court by them and them winning, meaning the alleged debtor has to pay profit to the debt collector.

What we should try to figure out is what is so special about these trading names that happen to have the word council in them. People think that these trading names really are the original councils, when they are just a trading name.

by **LionsShare** Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:21 pm

this is something I did last year & may help here. this was for a private ticket BUT the land was council owned. Wording that could be used, this is just some help all can use, to help get rid, modify to suit your situation:

Reading that sent by you, the overall tone & language used appear threatening, terse & over bearing. Phrases such as “PAYMENT TO BE MADE WITHIN 28 DAYS”, please state if you actually are an Authority, if so who/what indemnifies you with Authority? Please provide evidence.

Further reading into your Notice appears to be extorting an amount of monies where by a forfeiture (£290) would be given. Your attention is drawn to the Bill Of Rights Act 1688

Grants of Forfeitures.

That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegall and void.

Is it possible that in coercing the payment of a “forfeiture” that an offense is being committed & by that coercion you are aiding & abetting of said offense?

The regulations enable parking companies to ask the driver to pay an unpaid parking charge. After research the parking regulations do not allow for ‘penalties’ or any sums greater than the pre-estimate of a loss to a regulated company. For example if an overstay or as in this case no valid permit displayed costs £1 & a sending disbursement cost a further £1, the most that could be claimed by ?? Ltd is £2 NOT the original £290 (indeed why settle for £50 if £290 are owed?).

In your Notice why write to the Registered Keeper & not the Owner? Please state who actually owns the car (reg No)? The
car (reg No) is private property & is NOT part of business, it is exempt from levy as it is not goods for sale.

You could also add: as this is a coucil run & owned car park then I being benificary of the public trust order you the trustee to disperse all monies in connection with this claim(s).

(for use in a specific purpose) How can the council claim contract is formed by parking on yellow lines?

Hope this will help if not too late.

LS

by **LionsShare** Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:30 pm

as per a post I did much earlier in this thread why not look at A4V in the utilities section:

https://goodf.forumotion.com/f42-utilities

by flyingfish Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:52 pm

LionsShare wrote:You could also add: as this is a coucil run & owned car park then I being benificary of the public trust order you the trustee to disperse all monies in connection with this claim(s).

That's a good point, it may make a different whether this was in a Council car park, or for alleged inappropriate parking on the public road. The difference being that in the second case if the Council was not operating decriminalised parking enforcement then it would be a criminal matter that the Police could have pursued. In the first case, a Council car park, it's much more akin to private parking issues. Do we know which?

by **LionsShare** Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:32 pm

flyingfish you raise very good points, it will I think require further investigation & particularly the etimology to get clear more precise definition(s).

by **LionsShare** Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:34 am

flyingfish wrote:
LionsShare wrote:You could also add: as this is a coucil run & owned car park then I being benificary of the public trust order you the trustee to disperse all monies in connection with this claim(s).

In the first case, a Council car park, it's much more akin to private parking issues. Do we know which?

In using the line about the benificiary it should in theory be easier to get out of a council than a private ticket. IMO

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