Arrow Global ... reared their ugly head again!

Hi Tiggy,

I will definitely get a copy of my Credit Report and have all ready asked how I go about it ... temporarily I have taken screen shots of each page and saved it as a document ...

I have a copy of a letter from the first DCA and it is dated 16/02/2011 ... would a Default Notice have had to have been issued before the debt was passed to a DCA for collection? They did threaten legal action but nothing came of it ...

My Credit Report states that no court records have been registered against me int he last 6 years ...

There is no need to apologise I really appreciate everybody's comments, advice and support ...

They initially pass onto a debt agency to collect and yes, they would normally issue a default notice first, but really the only way to be 110% sure is to call the original creditor and ask.

Hi

Tiggy - if she's going to contact the OC would it be a good idea to use a SAR to do so, and ask for more than the default - perhaps even the original note?

Cheers!

iamani wrote:Hi

Tiggy  -  if she's going to contact the OC would it be a good idea to use a SAR to do so, and ask for more than the default  -  perhaps even the original note?

Cheers!

Not at this point, what we're only trying to establish is whether or not this debt is truly statute barred. If it is that's all you need to write and tell them to 'do one', they will then have no choice but to stop persuing it.

Hi Tiggy

i see. OK, thanks.

Cheers!

HI lindylou1962

I think when you call  the original creditor they will just say they have sold the debt and you must phone the DCA,  but please dont phone them , dont acknowledge the debt they maybe recording your call,

the original creditor can not legally sell the debt with out sending you a default notice

I can't remember the whole of the thread, but I don't think they have issued any proceedings yet from what I do remember. So if that's the case it just needs dragging on for as long as possible to make sure it is deffo statute barred. It can't be long away if it's not already.

I will not be acknowledging the debt in any shape or form ... when I sent the 3 letters to the previous DCA they were unable to provide copies of all that I asked for ... I was told that I was not party to some e.g. Deed of Assignment.

I cannot recall receiving a Default Notice from the OC and the previous DCA did not provide me with a copy of one ...

On my previous Credit Report the default date was listed as 5 May 2011/1 July 2011 (depending on which site I looked at) - it is now no longer listed!

Debt reported until: May 2017/July 2017

So looking at the dates and working it out does this not mean that the Debt is not 'statue barred'? - 6+ years have passed ...

Thank you all for your comments ... I really appreciate your help

LindyLou1962 wrote:I will not be acknowledging the debt in any shape or form ...

Quite right.

On my previous Credit Report the default date was listed as 5 May 2011/1 July 2011 (depending on which site I looked at) - it is now no longer listed!

Debt reported until: May 2017/July 2017

So looking at the dates and working it out does this not mean that the Debt is not 'statue barred'? - 6+ years have passed ...

Certainly looks that way.

As I KEEP pointing out the date on your credit file is utterly irrelevant to the question of a debt being statute barred, as that date is NOT the date they issued the formal default notice.

For debts covered by the Consumer Credit Act the issue of the default notice is the cause of action under Section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980, no other date is relevant.

HI lindylou1962

It does look like the 6 years are up, however it is the date on the default notice we need to see,
this is why we cant say if statute barred,

WE know DCA,s will chase for debt even after the 6 year and statute barred , and will lie and cheat, and  knowing also it is not enforceable  by the court,

if you are not sure 100% send the new 3 letters, and bill them at the right time .

                                      Lose the fear   of DCA,s

A different DCA have been in touch (but still part of the Arrow Global Group). I used the 3 x letters process ... to date all they have provided me with is a copy of the original agreement with Santander who have advised the DCA that they unfortunately hold no default information on this account ... can anyone advise on where that leaves me?! They have not provided any other information that was asked for!

Could I use the line that I believe the debt has now become "statue barred" - no payments have been made since 23 October 2010, no CCJ's regarding this debt and doesn't show on my recent Credit Check ...

Your advise and thoughts would be greatly appreciated ... many thanks in advance ...

Without a default notice they can't terminate the agreement, if an agreement 's not terminated they cannot commence proceedings.

87 Consumer Credit Act - Need for default notice.

(1)Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice ”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—
(a)to terminate the agreement, or
(b)to demand earlier payment of any sum, or
(c)to recover possession of any goods or land, or
(d)to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred, or
(e)to enforce any security.
(2)Subsection (1) does not prevent the creditor from treating the right to draw upon any credit as restricted or deferred, and taking such steps as may be necessary to make the restriction or deferment effective.
(3)The doing of an act by which a floating charge becomes fixed is not enforcement of a security.
(4)Regulations may provide that subsection (1) is not to apply to agreements described by the regulations.
[F1(5)Subsection (1)(d) does not apply in a case referred to in section 98A(4) (termination or suspension of debtor's right to draw on credit under open-end agreement).]

Thanks Tiggy for your response but a little confused by terminology ...

Should I not have received or be in pocession of a Default Notice before Sanander should have taken action?

I have just received another letter from Capquest advising that the following documents are not applicable:

-   Sworn Affidavit
-   Tri-lateral or bilateral contract
-   Instrument of Novation

Apparently they were unaware of any issues or dispute upon assignment of this account and have been acting in good faith based upon the information provided by Arrow Global - even though they are part of the Arrow Global Group!

Again they have attached a copy of the Notice of Assignment confirming that they are dealing with this account.

As Santander have advised Capquest that they hold no default information with regard to this particular account where does that leave the me? As the original creditor it would appear that they have run out of time to use the Courts to collect the debt. As Santander failed to take Court action (via CCJ) within the given 6 years would that mean that the debt has become "status-barred" and immune from legal action?

There have been no CCJ's against me on my Credit Report regarding this debt throughout this period - it would appear that no payments have been made on the said account since October 2010 - and no correspondence has been sent admitting that the debt is owed.

Should I tell the DCA again that I am disputing the debt and believe it is "status-barred"? Is it then not up to them to prove otherwise?

Sorry for all the questions but I just need to be clear before I reply to Capquest's last 2 letter!

My head is in a whirl !

Any advice would be greatly appreciated ... many thanks in advance ...

The key to when the clock starts ticking on becoming a statute barred debt is the issue of the formal default notice, because that under the Limitations Act 1980 is the Cause of Action.

The difficulty here is that the DCA is saying Santander appear to either not sent a default notice or haven't recorded the date it was issued - (have you contacted Santander yourself to verify, DCA's do lie) - because without sending it the clock on being statute barred hasn't started yet.

You could obviously, claim Santander were delinquent in not issuing the default notice and that a substantial amount of time has now passed since payment was last made.

Also, without issuing a default notice they cannot start proceedings.

This all boils down to when / if a formal default notice was issued, so you need to know that direct from Santander, so either call them to ask or send them a subject access request.  

At the moment you're relying on the word of a debt collection agency who are trying to get you to pay, you need solid evidence that a default notice was in fact issued and the date, otherwise you're scrabbling around in the dark, bite the bullet and contact Santander direct.

Morning Tiggy,

Thank you for your response it is very clear and has helped considerably.

Will keep all up to date on events ...

Jinxer wrote:Whatever you do and this is very important, ignore the above advice and wait for a different response off one of the resident experts.
From the look of it the default date was 5th May 2011 so a good 6 years have passed and me personally would ignore them as well.

I agree the statute barred route is the best way to go given the date seems to be quite close.

What Quirinus has said above certainly has merit and should be given strong consideration. I think Quirinus has some knowledge of contract law and it also also seems expereince working with it also.

In contract law everything is an offer.

In contract law there is 4 options to deal with an offer
ignore it - bad idea
refuse it
accept it
conditionally accept it.

The person to whom the payment plan is offered has these 4 choices. If the ignore it they have through acquiescence have agreed to the offer. Therefore the court hearing is only about enforcing the agreement that is thereby reached.

Refuse it and make a counter offer.

Accept it, as is.

accept the offer it on condition that ..... (conditions listed)

I am confident this method of dealing with debts will become the preferred way of doing it but it will require people learn a whole new kind of law.

To research this more go to Creditors in Commerce

Also look up Gorden Hall in Bellingham. The videos/audios are of terrible audio quality but it seems this bloke is the guru of contract law in the US.

If your going to follow up on contract law on that site, please note, this bloke went to goal once before where it seems he learned the trade so to speak, dunno why he went to goal. You will also find he has gone to goal again for something I am not sure what for but I have read the system set a trap for him which he did not see coming. I gather the powers that be decided he'd become a problem so they set him up for a fall.

cheers

Ignore Quirinus COMPLETELY,it is obviously a shill for a "debt" collection parasite.

Follow, what Tiggy says as I know his advice is ROCK SOLID. I have, under a previous guise, followed said advice many times and NEVER been let down. Thanks Tiggy.

NEVER, NEVER counter offer if Statute barred as this shows ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the "debt" and resets the clock.

My preferred way of dealing with these parasites is to return ALL letters as "ADDRESSEE NOT KNOWN. GONE AWAY". After say a year, have a friend of the opposite sex ring up and state that they are the new "occupier" and that the previous encumbent has moved but they do not know where. A letter to parasites from same person also seal's the deal. If you can give a hostel if a town at least 100 miles away as a forwarding address then all the better. I guarantee you will NEVER hear from parasites again PROVIDING you;

1) Do NOT apply for credit, pay ANYTHING in installments in a NEW "agreement".

2) Do ANYTHING like open a new bank account etc. The parasites will have a "notify of new activity" on your slave (sorry credit, same thing) file and WILL use this to trace you and if they find you have lied, they WILL come after you, and it WILL hurt, BIG TIME.

Stay off the, radar and you are 100% safe until you know for sure their claim is trashed (statute barred). So far this has worked for me for 5 years, NO LETTERS AT ALL, so I KNOW this method works.

If you can, get yourself a PO Box in a town as FAR away as you can, and use that to have DSAR'S, bank statements etc delivered to. DISTANCE IS YOUR FRIEND.

All the, above is used by intelligence operatives etc to avoid detection. Oh and that pay as you go phone you might have? Top up using CASH ONLY (get a NEW "burner" Sim) and NEVER use, a cashpoint (hole in the wall) in your home town. Pay for stuff with CASH as much as you can, cash which you took out when picking up your po box mail.

The illusion MUST be maintained.

Some of the quotes on this thread would be funny if not so dangerous

Just a few

The creditor does not keep a debt alive by sending letters, those are often regulatory letters. Once a cause of action has accrued the only way to extend it us by payment or acknowledgement. Just be Warley some firms record phone calls

The default date on a credit file is not necessarily related to any default notice

Once a debt has been defaulted on a credit file, it vanishes after 6 years

The date of the default notice is not the cause of action, it is usually the remedy date which could be a month. I think there is currently a case coming to appeal that may clarify that

this is why we are all weary of noobs who seem to know it all, But this is v old and most people would disregard the words of a belligerent noob and view them with great suspicion..

also if you see a portaloo or troll head or the rank of "dubious" or "spammer", this is my personal way of warning others.

I get why you are dubious and wary of newbies but sometimes new people do actually know what they are talking about. Of course, sometimes that does not follow the dominant discourse of the site - but that doesn't mean it is wrong.

However in the case above - it was just laughable although oddly , a story I have heard before from someone who ran dent management plans. Now you may say it was deliberate on his part - trying to keep an income stream but I think it was just ignorance. He is rather shocked and a bit peeved that most of my debts are SB and many of them were unenforeceable before that due to improperly executed agreements or lack of CCA's

how are you going against the discourse of the site , i dont see it. You claim to have experience which contradicts with Tiggys , so far issues which there is only your say so . Same with your claim that your experience is right and the site is wrong. I hope you elaborate as this is problematic , what is wrong and what is the dominant discourse of this site? Id be interested to know because i have a hard time summing this site up in one broad stroke unless you go into the deeper side of the frauds perpetuated on everyone by the "system" , which the legal system is part of (including debt collectors and all the other useful idiots).
or do you mean the 3 letters or the debt section?

Ok so where do I start
Firstly I am a fervent advocate of making debt purchasers and original creditors accountable and proving their case should they go to court. I am not however an advocate of deliberate debt avoidance i.e taking on debt with no intention of ever paying it back - but if life goes belly up when you already have the debt - don't let them walk all over you.

I disagree wholeheartedly with the 3 letter process and feel there are much better and more efficient ways of dealing with creditors . Basic prove it letters and cca requests. It seems to me that many debt purchasers mark users of the 3 letter process as an easy mark because, again, as far as I can see they have no basis in law.

I fully understand the Deed of assignment issue and putting the creditor on notice you would require sight in a court hearing is no bad thing, but getting it before - well I have never heard of it.

As it happens, Lowell sent me the wrong template refusing my claims about deeds of novation etc as well as DOA which I did use in my WS when I asked for it and quoted Lord Denning

I am assuming you do not allow advertising on this site( unless it is a pop up for which you get paid) although it seems perfectly ok for Tiggy to promote Paul and his firm by linking his blog.

As for my disagreements with Tiggy , and these are two fold and based on their posts
1) I think even for claims below 10K as well as claims over, CPR 31.14 and targeted Part 18 requests are the way forward. Neither have standing once a claim has been allocated to the SCT but a well argued defence and WS should produce the necessary documents or get the claim dismissed.
2) I believe sending SAR's to the OC can provide invaluable information - it did in my case . Tiggy seems to think this will provide info to the claimant. I have only ever seen one DOA and this did not provide for passing of info from OC to claimant other than specific documents and specific timeframes.
3) I think it is irresponsible to give information that is unhelpful- for example missing PT's in a post 2007 agreement will not , as far as I have seen, win a case for you. What you need are bad DN's, reliance on S86 , no valid assignment chain
5) Law is a game- if it gets to court you need to appear to be a credible witness because generally Judges see us as debt avoiders - which takes me back to my views on the 3 letter process

If you want to know where my views were honed, they are from 7 years of fighting my own debt as well as bits from Paul and bits from the woman who effectively wrote Carey.

As for society, well in my view we are in need of a Marxist (or maybe neo marxist) revolution but in the meantime a socialist state of state ownership would go a long way- the state we are in only propagates inequalities.

The dominant discourse on this site seems to me to be certain people acting as puppetmasters and manipulating others into courses of action that have no hope of success - this , imho makes them just as deceitful and manipulative as those they claim to be against.

thanks warwick65, oh i mean pat

your persistence is only undone by your stupidity , try again for insanity bonus.