Executor - or the Walking Dead.....?

by Guest Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:02 pm

Hi

I read a comment on the net somewhere that stated :

'An Executor is responsible for carrying out the wishes of the 'person' who has died as stated in their Will.'

This dropped a few pennies for me as to why the Executor letter has the effect it does.

Have you ever wondered why a judge looks like he's seen a ghost when a defendant claims the role of Executor? It's because he HAS just seen - and heard - a ghost that no-one else can see!

In matters of probate, a will can be dealt with by either an appointed-by-the-court administrator or by a testator appointed Executor, yes?

When a defendant claims Executor-ship the judge see's a walking corpse! He is possibly looking at a 'twice-dead person' become the 'resurrected man'. If he is then that is the end of his career and possibly more than that.

A 'person' is dead to start with, yes? Well, if an Executor can only be appointed by the testator.... and the testator is assumed dead before the Executor takes his role.... the judge is looking at a twice-dead person become a living man - a 'resurrection'.

'Je suis la vie en le resurrection!'

One of the few times the living can be seen by the court.......

Cool!

Cheers!

by Phillpots Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:34 am

Interesting, because all I have done since July when my mum passed away is deal with solicitors, the government, banks and insurance companies as well as funeral directors, doctors and crematorium. What a process I was thrown into. An eye opener to say the least. I have learnt a fair amount because you have to go through the proper process of de-registering a person from the system and because I was the executer on the 'will' I suppose I had to do it - and do it properly according to the process (system). What you have said is interesting.

De-registering someone is the eye opener. When you go to the registrars office and answer the questions they ask you you tend to start joining the dots that it is their system you are in from the birth certificate onwards and there you have it - you are in the government's system that controls you. The 'administration' of 'you' starts there. Thing is - does it have to be this way?

P.S. Guess what! What I became is liable to my mum because I accepted I was the executer by following proceedure to de-register her and I do not think that was anything to do with the will. The link is the birth certificate. That really got me thinking. So now the government send to my home address everything and anything relating to my mum including any money owed. So basically I'm now liable. For example if the government think they overpaid my mum or she did not pay enough tax over her lifetime - the onus is now on me and me alone to pay up or I face the consequenses, WTF. Any thoughts?

by Guest Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:56 am

Hi Phillpots

Nice to see you back fella, been a bit quiet....

i'm glad you have chosen to see the positive in recent events in your life, i know it can't have been easy to have to learn these lessons at such s time.

i have to say you timed your request quite well though, as i have been thinking of getting to grips with the subject of a will for myself.

As to your immediate predicament of liability, it is only the job of the Executor to offset the liabilities of the Estate against the assets of the Estate - the Executor is NOT responsible nor liable, ie from his own pocket, for any excess after the Estate is exhausted.

Perhaps the other guys can add to that (and of course correct if i'm wrong).

Cheers!

by Phillpots Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:01 am

Cheers iamani

The reason I said I was liable is because I have already received a bill to pay and I expect more. They are addresed to me with C/o of my mum below my name so I can only assume if I do not pay up then they will come after me.

by Phillpots Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:05 am

Or should I add the assets of what I would recieve when my dad passes away. That might make more sense. But Makes me wonder because they send to my address and not my dad's address.

by Guest Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:06 am

Hi Phillpots

They're addressed to the Executor who is expected to tie up any loose ends ie open ledgers to seal/close. Remember - it is the Trustee who always pays, if you're the Executor, how can you be the Trustee.....?

Cheers!

by Phillpots Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:16 am

Thanks iamani

Still trying to get my head round this. If I am the executer and beneficiary of my dad's house does that make me the trustee? Barring in mind I now know I would have to settle my mum's and dad's debts to the government. Linked to them or linked to the estate. Seems like it is linked to the estate.

by Guest Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:27 am

Hi Phillpots

No, if you're the Executor you're not the Trustee. You don't pay anything to the government. You settle accounts with paperwork - not money. The Trustee in this instance was (i think) your mum's 'person', who was also, confusingly, the testator....... hold on a minute......

Did your mum leave a will that expressly named you as Executor? An important question i probably should have asked already.....

Cheers!

by Phillpots Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:35 am

Yes I am executer in her will and my dad's. I already payed a bill sent to me and expect more. I can pay them it's knowing and trying to understand how - when I de-registered my mum the onus became me at 'my home address' - my address! And not my dad's where my mum lived and my dad is still. Why not send to him - why me. There are no issues and we can pay anything they ask of us so not an issue but just trying to get my head round this process of why send to me.

by Guest Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:48 am

Hi Phillpots

OK, so there was definitely a will, right? And named yòu as Executor?

You definitely didn't accept that duty from the probate court, it was definitely expressed in her will, by her?

Ok. Did your mother leave anything to you in her will?

Was there any money in bank accounts or shares or bonds held in the name of her 'person'?

Are there any assets listed in her 'name'?

Oh, and they are sending to you because they have somehow become aware that you are the Executor to the will. If they thought your dad was the Executor to the will they would send the stuff to him.

Cheers!

by Phillpots Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:59 am

Good post this

Everything passed to my dad on her death. My dad then has me as executer and beneficiary of his estate.

'Become aware.' This is what pricked my ears up to what I am now in. The link, because they as from what I can now assume - the 'link' is now my estate as well.

by **assassin** Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:18 am

Incorrect, as executor you can be liable on so many levels and you need to research the liability side of the executor as this will open your eyes.

Begin with the obvious, why do you need an executor, and why does everyone contact the executor at their home address and not at the address of the deceased or their solicitors.

by **assassin** Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:22 am

What actions as an Executor or an Administrator make me financially or legally liable?

•Neglecting to properly insure the assets of the estate if it suffers a claim
•Diminishing the estate through imprudent investment and inadequate book keeping
•Failure to pay the correct taxes on the estate
•Selling an asset without the agreement of all the executors involved with the estate
•Engaging in an action which constitutes a conflict of interest without declaring or disclosing your interest to all relevant parties
•Improperly delegating a decision to someone who has no legal authority over the estate
•Paying or distributing goods, chattels or assets to the wrong beneficiary and then failing to recover those assets or monies to the detriment of other beneficiaries
•Failing to identify a creditor who subsequently makes a claim after the estate has been distributed
•Missing an overseas bank account relating to the estate which subsequently comes to light and results in a tax fine after the estate has been distributed

by Guest Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:26 am

Hi

You listen to assassin, Phillpots - he'll sort you out....

Cheers!

by Phillpots Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:27 am

I am liable in so many ways which is what I thought through the process I went through to de-register my mum but can only think it's 'linked' to my birth certificate and anything I own or will inherit in the future. Will continue tomorrow knacked know.

by **assassin** Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:01 am

iamani wrote:Hi

You listen to assassin, Phillpots - he'll sort you out....

Cheers!

It isn't about listening to someone, its about providing the information and understanding it, then debating it.

Executorship is no different, by claiming an executor has no liabilities is incorrect and misleading to the rest of the topic and the correct information has been posted for EVERYONE to learn from and understand what they may face. From here they can do their own research (or not) and establish more facts for themselves and hopefully share them for the benefit of others.

by Candor Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:52 am

Hi Philpots

You obtained a grant of probate or letters of administration didn't you ?

If something was granted to you to hold and administer (for the benefit of others) what do you think that makes you in a trust law relationship ?, have a think about that.

Iamani you have it ar*e about t*t I am afraid.

An executor can appoint another trustee, but in terms of the Legal title incorporated estate, you are very much a trustee and an officer of that debtor society, recent research and discovery gifted to us makes that clear

Probate is not the proving of a will which is in itself an absurdity, it is the proving of claims against an estate.

Philpots who did the probate court send the Grant to ?

The form in which they address you, that is.

Therein lies the answer to your question, or at least a large part of it.

by Phillpots Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:49 pm

Hi candor

Grant of probate is new on me, all I had was my mum and dad's will. I was down as executer for both in the event one or the dies first or both. The process hit hard very quickly from the 1st day after my mum passing away. In the funeral directors they they needed the death certificate ASAP to inform the the crematorium to get a date. I made an appointment with the registrars office to get the death certicate drawn up. I had to say I was the son and give my name and address. Soon after I got letters addressed to my mum C/o my address from the council and soon after that the letters and bill came from the government this time with my name followed by C/o my mum's name. If I die my son is the next in line but then everything I owned and my mum and dad (when he dies) will pass to my son and he will become liable for everything. That's what has happened so far and where I am up to with my situation.

The situation is not a problem but just showed me what a huge learning curve to understand how the family is linked in their system and who has to pay any debts owed to the government.

All good to know. I did state earlier why does it have to be this way.

by Guest Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:41 pm

Hi

Candor - i hope you know by now that i respect your input - indeed i enjoy and look forward to your posts as you seem to have a good idea of what's what, and your info has always - up to now - moved my understanding forwards.

In your last post you stated that:

'iamani, you have it ar*e over t*t'

....and i smiled, expecting to see an explanation of that assertion to let me know where i went wrong.

But you didn't. In fact nothing you wrote after that line referred in any way to where i might have erred.

Do you see the conclusions that can be drawn from that?

What i see are two possibilities:

1) You meant to help me, but forgot to include the help.

i'm kinda hoping it's that, and normally this would be my default assumption but recent events round here have knocked my usual confidence.

Or 2) It was a display of contempt. A dismissal of an inferior. Disrespect.

If it's no.2, then ok, fair enough, i appreciate my style is not to everyone's taste - i'm a big boy and can handle it. i'll be sorry you feel that way and then forget you.

If it's no.1 - then please accept my most profuse apologies for the preceding nonsense, i'm so sorry. Genuinely and sincerely.

So please - explain what i have 'ar*e about t*t' in my post to Phillpots so i can correct it and at least know i'm heading in the right direction......

Cheers!

by Candor Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:09 pm

Not intended to be disrespectful Iamani, I just saying you have got your trust positions all wrong, you told Philpots he was not the trustee, I suggest he is a trustee by virtue of the fact he received an undertaking from a Grantor for the benefit of other recipients, just ask yourself why the PROBATE COURT is calling the shots on how the estate is actually administered post mortum.

There is not much I can add that I have not already posted on here, you know a lot more now from Romley and his gift to all of us, but basic trust law principles you must not ignore.

I was just passing through and didn't think too hard about the comment, apology given if it did offend you.

Philpots: unless you have given their system notice of a valid will, the system will presume intestacy by default, if you have simply taken the instructions directly from your parents then giving notice to any would be creditors for what is the residual estate ought to suffice - notice is an equitable doctrine, you will find such notices in the newspaper or gazette all the time.

They are giving us notice all the time and when we do not respond we waive our rights - it works both ways.

Sorry Notice was given, you did not respond and now the estate is dissolved (in the public at least) they keep it open in the private, but that is another story.

by Guest Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:26 pm

Hi Candor

Thanks a lot for the clarification, it means a lot - it really does. It wasn't the thought of offense really, more about it coming from someone i rate highly.

In return, the only reason i said he wasn't the Trustee was because he was insistent that he was the testator appointed Executor. As i noticed some possible inconsistencies to that claim i asked some questions to see if his position was actually that of administrator/trustee. That's why i asked if his mum had left him anything in the will, as, to my understanding of such things, that would preclude him from being Executor and we could then establish his actual role in the proceedings and move on in the correct direction. i think you noticed the same inconsistencies going by the advice you gave him.

i'm sorry i doubted you boss, long may you post.....

Cheers!

by Phillpots Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:20 pm

They only asked who I was, my address and my DoB, so I told them I was her son. I did not for the life of my think at the time I was going to get letters sent to both my mum and to me being C/o of her at my home address. They should have told me about this. And if they did at the time it was not made clear to me. That's the disturbing thing about all this. Not right because I am linked to any of her debt when they finally get round to calculating it. And like I said if I pass away it will go to my son and anything he inherits. That is frightening. What a system they have got people in. Just shows you don't own anything.

by Guest Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:25 pm

Hi

Phillpots - shocking, isn't it? Unfortunately the whole system revolves around them not having to tell us anything - it is expected that if we really are man and not just human/person then we'll make the effort to take care of our own best interests and find out what we need to know. Then they gave us tv and that was all she wrote.....

Cheers!

by Jinxer Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:34 pm

Years ago you never had to give your date of birth only your name when doing pretty much anything. So I'm pretty sure my house is only registered to my name with no date of birth (I need to find out for sure though). My son has the same name as me and his son has the same name as him so I don't see a reason why the house shouldn't just pass down automatically no changes needed. I remember I had to send a birth certificate (it was a mission getting that at the time) to the endowment company as they couldn't find that I existed.
When my mum died and I sound heartless but I just gave her forwarding address as the cemetery and when anyone asked for a death certificate like the water board and electric companies did I told them to go pay for one themselves. She came to live with me when she was dying as did my gran so anything they owned was sorted out before they died really.

by Guest Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:42 pm

Hi Jinxer

Makes you wonder what they're gonna do when they have wrung the last drop of currency from the dishcloth that is humanity, don't it?

It really was pretty much as you say - i remember. Especially compared to today. It's like we've been frogs in the pot of slowly heating water for like 30 years or so. It sure is boiling now!

Cheers!

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