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Moon phases


Setting up a trust

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Setting up a trust

Post by Lawful rebel on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:12 am

Hi folks as we are all mostly aware being behind a trust is a great protection of assets, a strategy that it seems all the wealthy employ but with the hefty solicitors fees involved in setting up a trust it puts this option out of many people's reach so does anyone know of the cheapest option to do this?
my thoughts are that as this country is based on common law a well drafted document witnessed and notarized should have validity and standing in a court of record to uphold the wishes of the beneficiary,is anyone doing or done this through the common law route? any advice or comments appreciated.

thanks in advance...
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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by daveiron on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:30 am

They are my thoughts as well ,Its something i have been thinking about but have not yet got around to doing.

There is a lot of info about how trusts work ,but very little on the nuts & bolts of how to set one up thats also watertight.

Can anyone elaborate on the process ?

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by Ausk on Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:47 am

Search for these documents:

Trust Law Primer
New-Trustee-Handbook-2008
Whats in a Trust - Part One to Four

Should get you started.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by Waffle on Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:35 pm

Hi all.

Trusts are governed by equity. Common law dosnt recognise trusts but instead sees contracts. Trusts are Chancery and equity.

There are a number of ways to set up a trust depending on desired outcomes. There are also various types of trusts it's important to select the most appropriate trype of trust for your circumstances and desired outcomes.

There is no point in signing a trust instrument and getting it notorised as a trust does not need to be notorised for it to be recognised. Statutory trust are recognised in accordance with the recognition of trusts act 1987. However for a trust to be recognised in equity it needs to meet the three certainties test.

There is a range of ways to set up a trust at various financial levels. Some cheap some more expensive you can do it yourself very securely if you have the right documents.


Last edited by Waffle on Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by handle on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:19 pm

Give Waffle a section on this.

Waffle......carry on , i and many others are interested....

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by assassin on Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:59 am

How do you fit an engine to a trust Waffle? unless it is an electric motor.
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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by Waffle on Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:45 am

If you want to set up an off shore business trust and private family trust you neeed money these though are tax free businesses and the highest grade of asset protection you can get. If you have interests in land then most likely you'll need a professional trustee but this is not always the case. If you wish to secure property in trust this is much easier and you can use this as an asset protection method against "creditors" but it's mostly unique to each individual and their circumstances. For the latter it's mostly about selecting the most appropriate trust or selecting the correct capacity i.e. either Trustee or beneficiary

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by daveiron on Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:13 am

Hi waffle,

I agree with Handle ,a section on trusts would be useful.
I have looked in to trusts as have many others and can recommend the 30 odd podcasts by Alister Hudson & also Richard Ansah. That will explain the various type of trusts.
What I believe is needed is once you have found which type of trust you require ,How to put it it into a document without a solicitor .
From what I gather a simple trust is very easily set up ,but no one seems to show any examples on paper.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by Lawful rebel on Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:40 am

Thanks for the reply's... it does look like many of us are very interested in how to set up a trust and as mentioned trying to find examples is like traveling through fog!

in our case we want to secure the property and land from being sold by the kids when they inherit with a basic stipulation of maintaining the croft for future family generations at the moment for the horses though after they have gone to continue giving back and looking after the land as here in Cornwall so much has been commercially raped and left barren without the respect it deserves.
as a side note this property is not registered with LR but bounded and registered at the Stannary courts exclusively under Stannary jurisdiction to which is very interesting and protective.

it would be a great benefit to all of us to have a section on trusts even if it only gives a basic understanding on how too.


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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by Waffle on Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:22 pm

I haven't been on GOODF for a while but I'm sure I did start some threads specifically on trusts and equity....

Sounds like you need to speak to a professional trustee. The land and property can all be vested into a trust where it can't be sold and any other wishes you have can be included in the trust instrument and the trustee will be obliged to make sure they are fulfilled. When you set up a trust the settlor will vest the land and property and how this will be managed are all laws and any trustee will be compelled by any judge to ensure the settlors laws are complied with. Very powerful. Providing the trust is set up 9 years before you depart this plain there won't be any inheritance tax liabilities.

If you set up a trust and don't lay down any laws the the trust will be administrated by the rules of equity if needs be. Equity means fairness and is becoming a popular jurisprudence to invoke when anyone is in court.

Trusts can be creative and you can be the creator it's pretty much the only means of private conveyancing everything else is following statutory obligations or common law contracts. You use trusts to protect you assets and make laws for how your life is going to be governed. Without using trust instrument you are basically intestate and treated as such. The law will make you follow the rules they have made for you. It's a means of self governance and empowering.

Sorry I can't help with trust instruments it's cost me a lot of time and money to acquire what I have and wouldn't be fair on others involved if I just gave them away.

You can practice setting up your own trust but if you don't have all the laws laid out necessary it could default into equity if the system has to get involved for any particular reason.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by handle on Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:14 pm

Assassin, as long as the engine has a makers engine number and therefore identifiable then I suppose can be entrusted in a document .

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by Waffle on Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:31 pm

Anything can be as long as it's unique and identifiable

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by assassin on Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:37 am

Trusts are very complex and a section on them may lead to confusion among readers and this is the problem. Any type of trust can be set up and there are so many types and so many variations of what people want to achieve, and this is where I foresee any problems.

If people do want a section on trusts and they can see through the problems then I am all for it.
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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by badvoc on Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:28 am

would the Trusts be Private or statutory ?

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by handle on Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:29 am

Assassin, you don’t say whether you want a section on trusts.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by assassin on Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:48 am

@handle wrote:Assassin, you don’t say whether you want a section on trusts.

This would have to be discussed among the site admin and if there were enough support for a trusts section I cannot see a reason for not having one.

I have highlighted the potential problems, and if Waffle wants to work through those problems I cannot see any real issues, but we also have to bear in mind that many site members do not have as much experience as others, and that such a section could lead people down the wrong track, and that a small number of people come to the site looking for quick answers and then leave.
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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by handle on Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:15 am

I didn’t think this site was policing general discussion on topics.
Surely the members discuss what they want, after all it is the members that make goodf.

Trusts are an integral part of goodf discussion and always have been.

Too often the phrase “don’t want people to get confused” is actually another way of perpetuating the “nanny state” concept in restricting what people can discuss regarding trusts. It’s not for others to decide what is confusing for people as Everyone has different levels of understanding and life experience, hence the purpose of a forum. I am, of course, not referring to offensive posting but am referring to general discussion of a very relevant topic.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by handle on Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:41 am

Lawful Rebel, I share your sentiment on Cornwall. I have watched it becoming yuppified over the last 15 years.

The locals seem to be replaced by "up country" nouveau riche. Cornwall has always had approx 80% unemployment. Go to any pub in Fowey and a portion of fish and chips is over £12. How can locals participate in such a discriminatory economic environment.

Housing developments are rife. The cornish pasty is being replaced by minimalist european fare.

Its losing its character, mystique and tradition.

In the "old days" up country folk were called Emits, and whilst things were not as bad as the holiday cottage burnings in Wales, there was an antipathy towards emits and holiday homes.

As the cartoon lion says in "bedknobs and Broomsticks" - "we like to see them [visitors] come and love to see them go". just enough to help the seasonal economy.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by actinglikeabanker's Ghost on Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:35 am

@handle wrote:I didn’t think this site was policing general discussion on topics.
Surely the members discuss what they want, after all it is the members that make goodf.

Trusts are an integral part of goodf discussion and always have been.

Too often the phrase “don’t want people to get confused” is actually another way of perpetuating the “nanny state” concept in restricting what people can discuss regarding trusts. It’s not for others to decide what is confusing for people as Everyone has different levels of understanding and life experience, hence the purpose of a forum. I am, of course, not referring to offensive posting but am referring to general discussion of a very relevant topic.

No-one is policing general discussion on topics. Stop being a wet fart handle.

A whole section does not need dedicating to trusts. They are a legal matter and we have a legal resource section already.

ADVANCED EQUITY AND TRUSTS := http://goodf.forumotion.com/t2292-advanced-equity-and-trusts

If the site were to appease every demand for a new section on a whim then it would make all sections convoluted.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by handle on Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:28 pm

Calling me a “wet fart” is rude and offensive. My post was polite.
Calling names leads to people afraid of posting and if you think namecalling is going to promote likeminded people coming to this site then you surprise me.

actinglikeabanker wrote:
@handle wrote:I didn’t think this site was policing general discussion on topics.
Surely the members discuss what they want, after all it is the members that make goodf.

Trusts are an integral part of goodf discussion and always have been.

Too often the phrase “don’t want people to get confused” is actually another way of perpetuating the “nanny state” concept in restricting what people can discuss regarding trusts. It’s not for others to decide what is confusing for people as Everyone has different levels of understanding and life experience, hence the purpose of a forum. I am, of course, not referring to offensive posting but am referring to general discussion of a very relevant topic.

No-one is policing general discussion on topics. Stop being a wet fart handle.

A whole section does not need dedicating to trusts. They are a legal matter and we have a legal resource section already.

ADVANCED EQUITY AND TRUSTS := http://goodf.forumotion.com/t2292-advanced-equity-and-trusts

If the site were to appease every demand for a new section on a whim then it would make all sections convoluted.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by actinglikeabanker's Ghost on Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:47 pm

@handle wrote:Calling me a “wet fart” is rude and offensive. My post was polite.
Calling names leads to people afraid of posting and if you think namecalling is going to promote likeminded people coming to this site then you surprise me.

actinglikeabanker wrote:
@handle wrote:I didn’t think this site was policing general discussion on topics.
Surely the members discuss what they want, after all it is the members that make goodf.

Trusts are an integral part of goodf discussion and always have been.

Too often the phrase “don’t want people to get confused” is actually another way of perpetuating the “nanny state” concept in restricting what people can discuss regarding trusts. It’s not for others to decide what is confusing for people as Everyone has different levels of understanding and life experience, hence the purpose of a forum. I am, of course, not referring to offensive posting but am referring to general discussion of a very relevant topic.

No-one is policing general discussion on topics. Stop being a wet fart handle.

A whole section does not need dedicating to trusts. They are a legal matter and we have a legal resource section already.

ADVANCED EQUITY AND TRUSTS := http://goodf.forumotion.com/t2292-advanced-equity-and-trusts

If the site were to appease every demand for a new section on a whim then it would make all sections convoluted.


You seem to be edging for an argument or to prove some point about censorship. If I were to call you names then I wouldn't be so polite as to say 'Stop being a wet fart handle'.

Do you want a cuddle?.

J *unt is pushing for laws against bullying online for the touchy sensitive types perhaps we need a safe space section, lets lobby for that hey?.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by handle on Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:56 pm

Nope , not the argumentative type. You would struggle to find any of my posts argumentative here or on the previous site. Your posts are good and informative, just surprised at your choice of words.

Simply pointing out that people might find things confusing is actually no ones responsibility.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by actinglikeabanker's Ghost on Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:38 pm

@handle wrote:Nope , not the argumentative type. You would struggle to find any of my posts argumentative here or on the previous site. Your posts are good and informative, just surprised at your choice of words.

Simply pointing out that people might find things confusing is actually no ones responsibility.

Actually it is, especially if people come here and take some information (that could be wrong or not complete) and then run off half cocked and fail in whatever they are trying to achieve and then come back and blame the site/admin or members, there are plenty of examples of this.

None of the admin (whilst I don't speak for them) want to confuse people who come here or create even bigger problems. assassin was clear in a potential approach that waffle could essentially manage. I personally don't think it is a good idea as it places to much of a demand on a member and creates dependency, which is why I created the thread on trusts based on an education syllabus so that if people want to educate and empower themselves then they can follow a pre-set 'proven' course specifically based around trusts.  

I personally do not think we need a whole section around trusts as we have a legal resource section that was rationalised out specifically to broadly capture multiple topics such as this. I know it was rationalised out as I was the one who put forward that section and spent hours going through the old site to see what would fit and where.

If it makes you feel any better, I can be a wet fart at times also Wink.

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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by Lawful rebel on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:01 pm

Thanks for the replies so far though i must add unity rather than division is crucial to practical dialogue and its benefits imho prevention is better than finding cures.

Its long been recognsed that to create a fortress one must build walls to keep the enemy at bay the current approach is to put sticking plasters on the wounds inflicted by the kakistocracy* of today,taking a leaf from there book is so blindingly obvious which is to separate the  assets from the private person! if that was the goal then sending three letters and the associated defenses would be moot as we would all be shielded by a trust "just like them" for myself and others who can see it a solid foundation is necessary for any building to be worthy  same go's for us and our standing in life yes we can look for and use loop holes but why should we when all we need to do is to protect ourselves Ab initio "from the beginning", with a trust you have your basic foundations set ready for any incoming so why the resistance to empower everyone both here at the forum and in legal land? with the legals its easy to see they dont want the great unwashed at the same table! trust laws mind numbing structure is designed solely to feed the lawyers coffers from those that have funds to create a trust and makes it like learning a new language for the rest who have tried to master there codes! some can do it most can not. the point of this thread was to establish a "how too" using the law of the land "common law" and not parasitic lawyers. legal advice is not expected or required here its a platform for the exchange of information from the interested to the experiences of any who have ventured down this route and imho the way forward.

*Kakistocracy
A kakistocracy is a system of government which is run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens.
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Re: Setting up a trust

Post by assassin on Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:48 am

@handle wrote:I didn’t think this site was policing general discussion on topics.
Surely the members discuss what they want, after all it is the members that make goodf.

Trusts are an integral part of goodf discussion and always have been.

Too often the phrase “don’t want people to get confused” is actually another way of perpetuating the “nanny state” concept in restricting what people can discuss regarding trusts. It’s not for others to decide what is confusing for people as Everyone has different levels of understanding and life experience, hence the purpose of a forum. I am, of course, not referring to offensive posting but am referring to general discussion of a very relevant topic.

ALAB makes a very good point, and the point about confusing people is a perfectly valid one as bad or incorrect information does more damage than good, and I personally resent any claim that I am perpetuating the nanny state when I am highlighting genuine issues and giving a possible solution to them, in point of fact it is opening up the debate about introducing a possible new section and not suppressing debate as you claim.

Have you posted for Waffle to see if he is willing to overcome the highlighted problems?
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