Cabot contacted me about alleged debt

No problem, you will find that the dates on the letters never are the dates
they were actually posted.
Dont fill in any form from them. read the bottom of their site,they are all the
same company;https://www.mortimerclarke.co.uk/

You have sent the DSAR ,its a request for all info,and it shows you are addressing
the matter.

Thank you very much for your response, just reading that helps me immensely, i had a feeling they were with the way the letters came but my mind just started freaking out on me.

Im assuming i should just wait on their reply as you said previously Or is there anything i should be doing while i wait for my dsar.

Thank you again im not sure what i would be doing without you all.

Ive Been looking up stuff about the deed of assignment and what a notice of assignment is too. Am i correct in my understanding its not a legal transfer of ownership if its not signed by all parties and independent verified by a third party or is it conditional to type of alleged debt.

I never to my knowledge ever recieved a notice of assignment either, how the hell are these companies (banks and purchasers) getting away with these dodgy practices.

Pretty cool stuff to read up on, its almost like the rich put these obscure rules in for themselves to get out of trouble but make it hard for the ones who dont have much money

i would write to mortimer clarke and tell them you are not in any position to dispute, deny or anything else as you have no idea what this alleged debt relates to.

then tell them you require details of what this is all about what it relates to and documentation to evidence that their client has any right to demand any form of payment .

i am certain either Cabot or mortimer clarkes letter(s) will contain an account number/and/or details of what this 'debt' relates to in some way ??

on the DSAR have you just put your name or an account number ?

Re Deed of Assignment found this;


PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED v DIANA MAYHEW - WIN
24 April 2017, 14:16
‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.


This is why they never produce one.

good case dave and true

there are numerous cases in the higher courts which back the production of deeds of assignment its just finding them this is a good one.

what would be most beneficial is if you can find the case itself and find the passage used by the Judge and quote a senior judges own words, hard for the lower court judges to ignore

lord denning was always a good one but recently judges 'get around' this one due to how long ago it was ( wrong but nevertheless happens )

i have seen many D of A's now and it doesnt help the claimant in most cases

Hi waylander, i was researching DoAs and this one kept coming up,
Most links to it come from Leagal Beagles

daveiron wrote:Hi waylander, i was researching DoAs and this one kept coming up,
Most links to it come from Leagal Beagles

yes Diane Mayhew and her acting solicitor in the case both posted quite a bit on legal beagles for a while, i have actually spoken with diane mayhew and her acting solicitor, i have even passed a couple of people on to her solicitor who were floundering on this site and were approaching defeat in court.

both cases were won

a leading top judge on deeds of ass. is a man called Marcus Smith he is known as an expert on assignment and some of his quotes are very very helpful, most if not all of his cases are in the higher courts and involve vulture funds ( big time debt purchasers who purchase businesses, such as one 'debt' being 2million rather than the 2000 we look at )

waylander62 wrote:i would write to mortimer clarke and tell them you are not in any position to dispute, deny or anything else as you have no idea what this alleged debt relates to.

then tell them you require details of what this is all about what it relates to and documentation to evidence that their client has any right to demand any form of payment .

i am certain either Cabot or mortimer clarkes letter(s) will contain an account number/and/or details of what this 'debt' relates to in some way ??

on the DSAR have you just put your name or an account number ?

Hi yes im sorry there is indeed a referance and i completely missed it too in my muddled anxiety my bad.

Its for an old alleged credit card.

To answer your second question too nope i just added my name did i screw it up? I posted what i put.

With having sent my Dsar to cabot and them being the same place would it still make sense to send the letter to the solicitors? Im not refusing and could probably afford it next monday, i just dont want to make a mistake. DI informed me since id sent the Dsar i should wait on that before my next steps as it shows im not ignoring them and will give me more info.

If there is more i should be doing meanwhile other then studying i mean.

Sorry if this came out weird, im just looking for clarification on my next steps

ok,

you need to stop worrying ( i know easier said than done ) , because they prey on people being scared making mistakes and backing down.

what you need to do is read what we post and understand it, if you dont then ask

please answer each of my questions.

i) so we have established an old credit card ?
ii) do you recall how long ago you stopped paying it ?
iii) do you have ANY old paperwork from this credit card of your own ?

Yes you must reply to the solicitors in my opinion to stop them in their tracks as a DSAR wont stop them from taking the matter to court if they wish to.

we really dont have enough information yet

waylander62 wrote:ok,

you need to stop worrying ( i know easier said than done ) , because they prey on people being scared making mistakes and backing down.

what you need to do is read what we post and understand it, if you dont then ask

please answer each of my questions.

i) so we have established an old credit card ?
ii) do you recall how long ago you stopped paying it ?
iii) do you have ANY old paperwork from this credit card of your own ?

Yes you must reply to the solicitors in my opinion to stop them in their tracks as a DSAR wont stop them from taking the matter to court if they wish to.

we really dont have enough information yet

I am trying to stay calm, my brain acts weird under stress so all i can do is promise i am trying. Thank you for the help ill try to answer the questions

A1) So it could of been 1 of 2 things from around the same time but it appears its definitely for an old cc.

A2) I believe it was roughly 3 or 4 years ago it was stopped being paid, im sorry and ashamed to say i kind of let things get way past what i could manage and before i knew it i just couldnt keep up the high interest payments and then they would keep upping the limit adding temptation in a time where i was already struggling to keep up with the growing demands and it all collapsed and i ran away from it. I know its shameful and i feel embarrased even speaking about it, i feel disgusting its come to this, that im here begging people who have no obligation to help and none of you should have to.

A3) Nope no paperwork but there are some old emails doing a search of the old email adress but its mainly just pay overdue now kind of thing if this helps.



I really am trying to do what is asked of me and i can provide as much info as you need but i feel like im imposing asking things if its a question i should all ready know,

To be honest its hard for me to know what im not understanding, i have trouble understanding the way alot of it is worded but i also understand this is more how legal things work so am trying.

So far until i got the 2 letters from cabot and their solicitor all i was asked to really do was send out the dsar and to read over the noca and try to understand why these questions are asked.

I think im starting to get it, from what i can gather alot of it seems the argument is over the legality and credibility of their claim when no deed of assignment can be legally sold to them when they have neither the original note nor a real DoA as the bank has already sold it on to its investors. But this could be all wrong too.

Please if im asking too much or you need more info let me know, im willing to do the leg work but im sorry to say i may need help with the actual steps.

never be ashamed or sorry that is the first thing

you will get all the help you need some need more than others its how life goes, to get the best help we all need as much information as possible
as you are still a little unsure as to what this debt exactly is then you must find out.

you need to send out a DSAR to the original creditor do you know who that is ?

first though reply to mortimer clarke what i said, that should also reveal a lot.

lets deal with each letter as it arrives there is so much you are not yet aware of

i will bet you the cabot chasing you are NOT the same company as the cabot that bought the 'debt'

Calm down, you are not imposing on anyones time, thats why we are all
here. There is a good chance we can get this to go away,
Of course its all confusing ,but you are getting there.
Just take one day at a time and let us know of any developments,
Do not make any rash on the spot decisions .

Remember we are here because we want to help, & most of us have been
through something similar.

waylander62 wrote:never be ashamed or sorry that is the first thing

you will get all the help you need some need more than others its how life goes, to get the best help we all need as much information as possible
as you are still a little unsure as to what this debt exactly is then you must find out.

you need to send out a DSAR to the original creditor do you know who that is ?

first though reply to mortimer clarke what i said, that should also reveal a lot.

lets deal with each letter as it arrives there is so much you are not yet aware of

i will bet you the cabot chasing you are NOT the same company as the cabot that bought the 'debt'

Thank you for your understanding and kind words, i'll try but it just feels like its a shadow over me and im a failure somehow, but i'll try to positive, education is power as they say lol.

I'll get to composing the letter to the solicitors tomorrow and should hopefully have it posted on monday, ill post here when i have done it.

Should i also mention im a vulnerable person in the letter too or would this make no differance?

Im pretty sure i know who the OC are now but it may take me a search to find their address but im sure i can get it.

Im not sure of the account number so will my name be enough? I know you mentioned reference number before.

Ill compose this dsar while i compose the letter to motimer and clarke and post it on here also before i actually send.

You said its possible the cabot now arent actually the cabot who brought it, may i ask what this means? Im new to all this and assuming its some form of scummy tactic they use but dont know why? Tbh i do get angry at the way this system seems to work from the stuff DI has posted and ive read up on. Its seems all geared at hurting the poor while making them richer. Sad

Thank you for your advice and guidance i really appreciate it, ill try to follow it to the best of my ability.

@daveIron sorry i dont know how to multyquote on phone and didnt want to fill up page with multiple posts


Thank you , lol ill try to stay calm. It really does help just having people here tell me im getting worked up and to calm down. I see why alot get sucked into these tactics wuth the stress im feeling now. Ill make sure to post anything they send or do and ask for advice before proceeding i promise.

I dont mind doing the work honestly just need a guiding light lol, fr its just like its went from 0 to 60 in no time. I think with a few nights rest and a bit time it will.sink in, i think alot of my fear is its new and im still fresh.

Thank you again for your help and kind words i appreciate it all

more will become clear as we go

you really need the account number if possible cabot and or mortimer clarke should provide this in their replies to you.

can i ask who you think it is ? send it in a private message if it makes you feel better i may know the address to send a DSAR once i know have dealt with most of them

Its pretty rough but i couldnt sleep so i started to type up a draft.

" To Mortimer and Clark

I am very concerned to receive your correspondence in the post regarding your Client Cabot Financial's claim i owe them an alleged debt of xxxxx, ref xxxxxxx.

I am in no position to either accept, deny or refute this claim as i do not know what this alleged debt is concerning.

For this reason i require you to provide further details on what this relates to and the documentation to prove your client has a legal right to demand any form of payment for this alleged debt, please send all Documents through Royal Mail alone.

I must also give you and your client notice of my status as a Vulnerable Person and ask you to keep this in mind in how you proceed in the future. I have a medically diagnosed mental illness that causes me great distress and anxiety as well a heart condition that can be exasperated by stress, I can provide full evidence of this if required.

All rights reserved "

Im not sure if this is correct and i added the vulnerable part but can remove if its wrong. My hope is this will help sway them in the direction of avoiding going to court as from my understanding of the situation from the bit of research ive done so far, bailiffs wouldnt even be able to legally visit me if i tell them, but again i leave this up to your wisdoms if you think its worth it i wouldnt be surprised if they have scummy tactics for that too.

Waylander @ i can send you the details of who the oc are but i think i may have found their adress. Ill send you their name through pm at a more reasonable time as im unsure if pm's make noise and i dont want to wake you up. I will also scourer my old emails for signs of the account number but all the ones i saw just asked me to follow a link to my account etc... but i haven't looked through them all yet i must admit so its still possible.

Ok im off to try and get some rest now if my brain will calm down enough lol. Thanks again everyone you are all amazing

Looks good to me, Yes definitely keep in the vulnerable issue.

Just to add always send RM signed for, and never to a PO box,
their address will be somewhere on their letters ( usually at the
bottom in small print)

You can get a copy of their signature if you go to Royal Mail Track and Trace
https://www.royalmail.com/track-your-item

agree with Dave

looks good should get the results we need

definitely keep the vulnerable issue in the letter, this will make a difference but expect them to ask for all sorts of information.

dont just oblige them in this area until we have checked their rights to certain information.

Hi, thank you both for taking the time to read over it, im glad its good, i will neaten it up before sending on monday m9rning but I'm so happy i did it right.

I was watching that great video posted in the warrant and bailiffs forum page concerning vulnerable people. Its really quite interesting as it discussed the issues not only around bailiffs but also some intersting stuff regarding how it can be used for solicitors and debt purchasers. Apparently some people can get it wiped out when they demonstrate their vulnerable status and demonstrate the inability to pay.

@daveiron thank you for the advice, i have their none po box adress, i was suspicious this was a trap so they could claim lack of receiving.

I can also confirm cabot have signed and received my Dsar as it shows they signed for it already.

Thank you all again

Ok so ive just gotten home and finally had time to go through the emails. I managed to find the OC account number in a really early contact with them.

I must admit though, i misunderstood the letter from cabots Solicitor MC, it actually did include this account number but i mistook it for being Cabot's account number with the wording and not actually the original creditors. Having realised my stupidity i have read through all the rest carefully but Other then the this, the only actual relevant info is their reference number, the alleged amount and the date they brought the account.

The rest is just stuff telling me their next steps and the long questionnaire regarding if i accept or dispute. its very sparse of any real info. I feel really stupid for this mistake and must apologise to you both for wasting your times on needless stuff.

Is it still worth sending this letter to them? Im assuming yes because it shows im still engaging and will notify them of the vulnerable status, but i await your approval.

Im sorry for this though i feel like ive wasted alot of time going the long way round to get to a destination just across the road, zig zagging instead of a straight line.

With having this it means i can also send the dsar to the OC on monday also if this is still the best course?

Personally i would continue with your letter, as it is.

So you now seem to be taking a step back and getting control which is how you need to be ( in control ) ,
They thrive on making you panic , been there done that ,
If you can print off and file all emails to and from that gives you a straight edge ,
How old do you think the alleged debt could be ?
I have signed up to Check My File , It's not free (14.99 a month ) but your info is not sold on ,
It gives me a check on what's happening in the world of credit score ,
and a date when they are roughly statute barred ( not enforceable due to time elapsed uk ) .
We all fall on bad times in this modern world ,

agree with Dave send the letter as it is

@daveiron and @waylander ill do as you have suggested and send the letter on monday, thank you.

Im going to start composing the DSAR for the OC as well, its better to get it all done as fast as possible. Get the ball rolling lol

@memegirl777 thank you for the advice ill try to print out any relevant emails as suggested, i don't actually have a printer so would need to use the library but i can do this money is a little tight atm so will be after this but that a great idea thanks .

Ill also look into a credit check thanks.

Just regarding printing, You really need to photo copy everything you send
or receive