Banned from driving for six months court mess PLEASE HELP

by M.walker Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:56 am

Ok i shall try and make this easy to understand as it ahs been quite a complex issue, late May i received a summons to attend court for possible driving ban following totting up procedure, i had no idea why as to my knowledge i had no points, ive had my license 25 years and until that point i had only ever committed an offence by going45 in a 40 and both ties i responded and was put on a drivers awareness course. I was told that in 2021 i had sped before and awarded 3 points but this was then extended to 6 points because i had failed to disclose the id of the driver, move and now there was a further issue and the court were looking to ban me because of a further points addition totalling 6. Now i shall explain, where i live this used to be one big building as a business, it has now been split into two businesses and one residential building (mine that we rent) unless we get one particular postal worker who knows the complexity of the addresses then we fail to receive a high percentage of our mail, the businesses where the mail can go are only open certain hours (takeaways) and they have had enough of constantly bringing mail around to different tenants over the years that they simply don't do it anymore. So i let the courts know of this issue and was given a date to attend and defend the case, now previously i had requested my medical documents from the MOD and given my address of course, this seemed to take an age and i had actually forgotten about it, then a few weeks ago the young lad that works at one of the takeaways knocked stopped me as they had a signed for delivery card that had been posted to them so that i could go and collect from the post office, if i had been 48 hours later it would have been returned to sender. Some days after this we had a power cut, i called Northern Power and gave them my details, they said there was no number 7 and went through all of my details, they said there was a number 5 (takeaway) so then they asked me to give them the number of out electric meter which i did, they told me that this was registered to number 5. When we go online to to book a GP consultation through their portal there is only a number 5 or number 5-7, so armed with this i was going to defend the failure to acknowledge or failure to identify the driver. Because there is an issue of complexity with our address i emailed the courts and asked for the timings of the case, i told (via email) that the case would be heard on the 13th of April at 11:30, now all communication from them was from Bradford and Keighley magistrates court. So i attended and was there early, i made sure i kept my purchased car park ticket, but when i arrived at the court.....they were closed, there was absolutely no one there. I even took GPS stamped photos as proof at the court . I emailed the same address where i was given the timings, stating i was there and no one else was. A week later i receive in the post a letter stating i am banned for six months with a £1000 fine, at this point i was stressed now as i need my license for my job so i call the courts again (and i have recorded every call for proof) the lady could not find any information with the reference number given, all she could find is that i was due in court on the 13th, but then this had been changed to the 25th, i had received no communication regarding this and asked how this was conveyed, she said she could not tell as she had limited information as she was working on a new system and the reference number was probably an old system, she apologised for the mistake but said what i would need to do is make a statutory declaration as i did not know about the change of date for the hearing. So i did this via email with a read and delivery receipt, i then receive an email back saying this has been rejected as " the case is still open " i don't understand how this can be the case as i had received the letter stating i had been banned and finned, confused at this i email the courts yet again and i am told that i need to raise a section 142 to get the case reopened which be heard at a hearing. I am honestly at the point of breaking mentally, it feels as though i have been pushed from pillar to post and no one wants to help me, what makes it worse is i have submitted a DSAR so that i have all the information for a defence and they haven't even acknowledged they are in receipt of the request. I have no paperwork from either case and from the very limited information i do have the second offence was in an area that neither myself or my wife visit or work. Please PLEASE can anyone help, my employer is very understanding but there is a limit and i could lose my job which i simply can not afford to do.

by **daveiron** Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:56 am

You may get better advice from others with more knowledge of court
hearings.
Take a look at getting it set aside;
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part13#13.2

NEVER email or phone unless you send a hard copy at the same time via Royal Mail
'signed for'

It seems clear that your address (or lack thereof) is causing serious problems
you need to get it sorted asap.

by flyingfish Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:29 pm

Set aside is a civil process, not relevant here. Ideally what you want is to make Statutory Declaration regarding the first conviction, the court has to accept this if made with 21 todays of becoming aware off the conviction, they have discretion to accept it later. That should wipe off six points.

It's not clear from your post whether there was a second convicti9n adding another six, or what.

by M.walker Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:42 pm

flyingfish wrote:Set aside is a civil process, not relevant here. Ideally what you want is to make Statutory Declaration regarding the first conviction, the court has to accept this if made with 21 todays of becoming aware off the conviction, they have discretion to accept it later. That should wipe off six points.

It's not clear from your post whether there was a second convicti9n adding another six, or what.

I tried this first and was told it was not eligible (see screenshot) yes there were two offences, one from 2021 (which i was not aware of) and a second from last year, so in 25 years of driving i have had four offences, the previous two i immediately responded and took the drivers awareness course. The remaining two i have not received any paperwork, common sense why would i let 50% be ignored and risk losing my license. So setting aside should not apply here? i do not know what to do as no one is dealing with this, and every day is a day i can not drive and not working, i just do not know what to do next?

Attachments

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by M.walker Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:59 am

Please can anyone help with this? i have been calling and calling the magistrates court (its in Bradford and I'm in Huddersfield and cannot drive and struggling because i have my son) and it just rings and rings, i just can not get anyone to speak to about this and my mental state is getting worse as i can not drive and work through absolutely no fault of my own.

by M.walker Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:40 pm

daveiron wrote:You may get better advice from others with more knowledge of court
hearings.
Take a look at getting it set aside;
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part13#13.2

NEVER email or phone unless you send a hard copy at the same time via Royal Mail
'signed for'

It seems clear that your address (or lack thereof) is causing serious problems
you need to get it sorted asap.

Thank you for your response, i emailed because i know of the issues with my address, we have even had recorded deliveries go to the wrong address, and i wasn't taking that risk with it being my license, low and behold they ignore it and do it anyway, i have made the section 142 application and they have received it, it has now been sent to the legal team to look at it and see if it can be reopened. I have contacted Royal Mail various times regarding this and yet nothing gets done, i have had THREE CCJ;s because of this and various financial issues that i am now having to go through one by one because we don't receive all the mail this is going to take me some time and effort to resolve them all.

by **daveiron** Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:49 pm

I doubt if they bothered to answer the phone you would get any sort of
resolution.

One step is to complain ;
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/ministry-of-justice/about/complaints-procedure.

You really need to address this in writing .Also contact your MP about their
lack of help and compliance.

by waylander62 Wed Jun 14, 2023 5:38 pm

i am not greatly familiar with these sorts of things but this is criminal and not civil so there is no set aside option.

what you can do is keep trying to contact the magistrates court and tell them you had no idea about the last 2 cases and that you have NEVER had ANY paperwork in respect of them and that you wish to make a statutory declaration in respect of this.

this is really your only option at this stage, making a statutory declaration ( which has to be accepted of course ) will require reasons as to why you had not respond to the original summons. If it is accepted then it will mean any fines and points will automatically be removed and the whole process will start again from the beginning.

they will also have fined you and will start the collection process for that too which will increase and result in court bailiffs chasing you.

also it is worth contacting the DVLA for a history of your 'points'

even if you plead guilty to the original offence it should halve the points ( i think )

i have done this process myself and the police decided they wished to pursue the offence of failing to provide the name of the driver and they lost even though i was guilty of the speeding offence i was fully acquitted.

you could also send the magistrates court an email to get the ball rolling if you cant get through by phone.

by flyingfish Thu Jun 15, 2023 6:12 am

Form for Statutory Declaration is here, together with some notes ..
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statutory-declaration-of-ignorance-of-proceedings

Note that you are declaring that you were unaware of the hearing at which you were convicted, and you don't have to give reasons for that. But If the SD is more than 21 days after you became aware, then reason for the delay needs to be given.

In my opinion, concentrate on the first conviction first since they say the second one is still on going.

by M.walker Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:20 pm

waylander62 wrote:i am not greatly familiar with these sorts of things but this is criminal and not civil so there is no set aside option.

what you can do is keep trying to contact the magistrates court and tell them you had no idea about the last 2 cases and that you have NEVER had ANY paperwork in respect of them and that you wish to make a statutory declaration in respect of this. [Me] I have done this, ive emailed and emailed, and have been told that the statutory declaration did not apply to me, im guessing its because i knew of the case, .......i did but not until after a hearing and it was at the advanced stages, i did NOT know about a hearing that had been moved from the 13th to the 25th. Why are they rejecting my statutory declaration request? [Me]

this is really your only option at this stage, making a statutory declaration ( which has to be accepted of course ) will require reasons as to why you had not respond to the original summons. If it is accepted then it will mean any fines and points will automatically be removed and the whole process will start again from the beginning.

they will also have fined you and will start the collection process for that too which will increase and result in court bailiffs chasing you. [Me] I received an instruction to pay the full amount by the 27th which i cant do, i will have to call the fines team and have this looked at as it is waiting to be reopened under a section 142.[Me]

also it is worth contacting the DVLA for a history of your 'points' [Me] I will do this, as i think the online portal only goes so far[Me]

even if you plead guilty to the original offence it should halve the points ( i think )

i have done this process myself and the police decided they wished to pursue the offence of failing to provide the name of the driver and they lost even though i was guilty of the speeding offence i was fully acquitted.

you could also send the magistrates court an email to get the ball rolling if you cant get through by phone.

by M.walker Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:40 pm

flyingfish wrote:Form for Statutory Declaration is here, together with some notes ..
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statutory-declaration-of-ignorance-of-proceedings

Note that you are declaring that you were unaware of the hearing at which you were convicted, and you don't have to give reasons for that. But If the SD is more than 21 days after you became aware, then reason for the delay needs to be given.

In my opinion, concentrate on the first conviction first since they say the second one is still on going.

When i was advised to make a SD i was just told to email them, i filled in no form and wasn't aware of this form, i am filling it in now and will send in by recorded delivery. I don't understand why they rejected my initial SD as i was within the timeframe and had correct reason to do so.

by waylander62 Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:12 pm

any information such as in your last post could help you, likely the form is not big enough to allow you to put what happened into the form itself, if this is the case then in any explanation box simply put 'please refer to accompanying letter' then simply write in full an honest explanation and any evidence you had or have to help you. I would also make it clear at the beginning of the letter that it is to be read in conjunction with form xyz

this is what i would do and actually have done.

is there a 3rd party involved here ? such as the car you may have been driving is not yours ? such as a company car or something ? or does someone else also drive your car ?

by M.walker Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:36 pm

waylander62 wrote:any information such as in your last post could help you, likely the form is not big enough to allow you to put what happened into the form itself, if this is the case then in any explanation box simply put 'please refer to accompanying letter' then simply write in full an honest explanation and any evidence you had or have to help you. I would also make it clear at the beginning of the letter that it is to be read in conjunction with form xyz

this is what i would do and actually have done.

is there a 3rd party involved here ? such as the car you may have been driving is not yours ? such as a company car or something ? or does someone else also drive your car ?

So i have downloaded the stat dec form from the post above (thank you) and completed, there is enough room for me to add everything that has happened, i am a little annoyed in the fact that i called the courts (who should really know exactly how to to help and what advice to give) they responded to me with an email link to request the stat dec (at no time did they point me in the direction of the online gov form) had this been made available to me then they would have taken the request more serious than just an email requesting a stat dec. Not to mention the amount of time that this has added to the entire process, when peoples livelihoods can hang in the balance you want to be given the correct information first time. I have submitted the email with the correct forma and i have also sent a copy next day recorded delivery, its disgusting that they can ruin peoples lives and yet it is SO HARD to remedy their errors. Thank you so much for everyone that is helping me here, this ahs caused me so much stress and it feels as though life is taking great pleasure in giving me a daily kicking (see my other post which has been caused by my address being so difficult)....again thank you all and i will keep you posted.

by M.walker Wed Jun 21, 2023 11:48 am

waylander62 wrote:any information such as in your last post could help you, likely the form is not big enough to allow you to put what happened into the form itself, if this is the case then in any explanation box simply put 'please refer to accompanying letter' then simply write in full an honest explanation and any evidence you had or have to help you. I would also make it clear at the beginning of the letter that it is to be read in conjunction with form xyz

this is what i would do and actually have done.

is there a 3rd party involved here ? such as the car you may have been driving is not yours ? such as a company car or something ? or does someone else also drive your car ?

Do i go to the court and file this way or send through the post?

Thank you

by waylander62 Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:16 pm

it is really up to you, i think i would e mail it as an attachment explaining in your e mail what it is etc and i would also tell them that a hard copy is being sent by post, post it 1st class proof of delivery receipt.

thats what i would do anyway.

by M.walker Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:38 am

waylander62 wrote:it is really up to you, i think i would e mail it as an attachment explaining in your e mail what it is etc and i would also tell them that a hard copy is being sent by post, post it 1st class proof of delivery receipt.

thats what i would do anyway.

You said what im pretty much going to do so i must be on the right track Smile

all i have done is say that i am making a statutory declaration and the reason for this is that i had no knowledge of the case in general and certainly not the court date, and i have proof of this.

by waylander62 Thu Jun 22, 2023 2:05 pm

say that you wish to make a statutory declaration
that you had no knowledge of any application that had been made against you therefore had no opportunity to plead at any hearing that make have taken place.
You had no knowledge that any case and been heard etc etc

by M.walker Fri Jun 23, 2023 9:45 am

waylander62 wrote:say that you wish to make a statutory declaration
that you had no knowledge of any application that had been made against you therefore had no opportunity to plead at any hearing that make have taken place.
You had no knowledge that any case and been heard etc etc

I just wanted to say thank you so much for your help, i am not in a good place mentally and the PTSD has been kicking me to the ground daily, you and others have really helped me to try and stay positive, thank you.

by M.walker Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:21 am

I am still waiting on the section case reopening that they INSIST i must do and will not entertain the idea of a statutory declaration (why i do not know as i was not aware of the court hearing date as proven already) this is the response that they keep giving me, i am annoyed as to why they can not supply the reason as to why it was rejected, they simply say they are not legally trained, I'm not asking for legal advice, surely there must be something as to why it was rejected...I have submitted a DSAR as this is just getting plain ridiculous now.

Good morning,

SJS is unable to comment further as we are not the court and do not have legally trained staff. Please follow the guidance from my colleague in our pervious email should you wish to continue your dispute.

Please see exact statement from the court regarding why your referral was rejected below:

This matter is not ongoing – MR x has responded to the disqualification notice and was referred to Court for a hearing. The following guidance was issued in relation to cases like this:

‘Justices’ Legal Advisers’ and Court Officers’ Service (JCS) guidance has confirmed that where a case is finalised by a court following issue of a summons from a Single Justice Procedure session, a statutory declaration cannot be made in relation to it.
"
This applies under both section 16E and section 14 of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980. The only recourse to re-open the conviction is to use section 142 of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 when it is in the interests of justice to do so because the defendant was unaware of the hearing on summons. Only single justice proceedings where a summons is issued are excluded from the right to make a statutory declaration’ "

by M.walker Fri Jul 28, 2023 6:04 pm

Ok so finally my section 142 to get the case reopened has been actioned and i was in court today, this was my first time in any court and i think i handled it pretty well considering i am experiencing bad PTSD (please see my other post for this) the prosecutor first came out to show me their evidence and why i feel this case should be reopened. They did have a picture but it was my wife that was driving (34 in a 30), now this is where nothing makes sense to me so hopefully someone can make sense of it. I assumed that i was banned as there was 2 incidents (one in 2021 and one in 2022) each carrying 6 points and a fine which took me over in the totting up, the courts were only prosecuting for the one in 2022 they were not aware of one in 2021, so that would make six points, so why was i banned for 6 points only (been driving 25 years) because i asked the question why i wasn't chased for the fine in 2021 as that would set alarm bells ringing and again it wouldn't have ended up in court. They did say i would also need to apply a section 142 to have the 2021 case reopened, i explained that i had submitted a SAR (which was due on the 24th and not received, they say it has been sent but so far have not answered my reply as to where and how it was sent) the upshot was that the prosecution withdrew the claim and there was no further action at all. Is it me or does this whole episode seem suspect, do i have any resource for this as i very nearly lost my job here and the stress it caused on top of other things was on another level.

by flyingfish Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:03 pm

Check your licence online, see what convictions and/or points show.

By the way are you completely sure it was 34mph in a 30 limit? Thats below the normal enforcement threshold which starts at 35. I couldn't begin to count the number of times people have claimed to have received a ticket below the threshold, but when they check then without exception it's turned out to be 35 not 34, or 34 in a 20 limit etc. As if now nobody, ever, has shown paperwork showing enforcement at 34. So you may be the first!

by waylander62 Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:19 pm

so let me get this right

you have been acquitted of all charges ? so effectively have no points on your license ?

it might be me but i can't fully understand your outcome. so you hadn't been officially banned you just thought you were ?

you say you assumed you were banned but then ask why you were banned ?

by M.walker Sat Jul 29, 2023 11:46 am

Sorry i didn't explain myself well there, yes i was banned as there was.

22.09.21 convicted failure to ID driver £660 fine and 3x penalty points.
05.08.22 convicted failure to ID driver £660 fine
To signify a disqualification under totting up 6 months disqualification

Now when i was speaking to the prosecutor she was only aware of the second one which is what i was there to answer for, i have submitted a DSAR and the time limit has passed for a response although they claim one was sent yet again i have explained the issues with my address and requested it to be sent digitally, and there has been no response. After the judge had heard my evidence the prosecutor said they wished to withdraw their claim completely and the judge said there was to be no further action taken.

My other question is now i need to recoup the latter fine that i have had to pay, also i will need to apply to have my license back and i will want all trace of this removing from the DVLA database as it currently says that it will stay on there until December 2026 which my insurance company will see and my employer. The only thing is i have no case ref number for the first case in 2021 so that i can submit another section 142 reopening, this is why i submitted the DSAR which i feel i am being messed around with. I am so angry as this could have cost me my job and i already suffer from PTSD from the military, that and my other post where i have another fight because of an attachment of earnings that shouldn't be there, i just feel battered everywhere. Thank you everyone for the help given so far, i don't think i would have been able to do this without it.

EDIT
It was definitely 34 in a 30, i was actually quite surprised at how clear the picture was as well (bridge camera).

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by flyingfish Sat Jul 29, 2023 1:39 pm

Do you happen to still have that photo, showing 34 mph And a 30 limit?

What does your licence show online? I wonder if it shows the convicting court which would help you track down that earlier case.

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