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Moon phases


Lithiun Battery Dangers

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Lithiun Battery Dangers Empty Lithiun Battery Dangers

Post by assassin Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:16 am

Lithium batteries are cited as the latest godly technology and I have issues with these claims as all technologies have positives and they also have negatives and unlike sales people you don’t focus solely on the positives as you need to focus on the positives and negatives to get the full picture and make fully informed decisions.
Worlds of solar are erupting and many people are spending £thousands on solar systems and they nearly all say the same thing, “we are energy self-sufficient” and my first question is why do you have a petrol or diesel generator then? You are not self-sufficient as you have been duped by sales speak.

This reality is actually very simple, this battery technology is still emerging and new issues are emerging and some may have serious consequences and potentially cost you your life as well as your home and family members.

What are the major issues?

Fire as they self-ignite due to several reasons and these are chemical reactions or chemical fires which produce their own fuel and oxygen through combustion reactions meaning the more they burn, the more fuel and oxygen they produce to increase the fires intensity so they simply burn and cannot be extinguished as currently very few places have such extinguishers and those having them are generally specialised industries.

Explosion is when a fire becomes so intense internally that the produced fuel and oxygen each such levels they pressurise the casing and overwhelm the vents (if fitted) and they simply explode, similar to a balloon; and unlike balloons they spew their fuel out and this is dangerous and once it ignites it acts like a blow torch and a flame spews out in a specific direction.

What causes these fires and explosions? Let’s begin with the basics as there are four types of damage and these are:

Electrical damage
Mechanical Damage
Thermal Runaway/ Internal damage
Defects

Electrical damage can occur in many ways and the most common are the chargers themselves causing issues such as overcharging as this causes excessive heat internally and this causes the separators to break down and fail. Over discharging does exactly the same thing and this causes the individual cells to go into “free fall” in which they all simply discharge at their maximum capacity and as each individual cell does this it heats up and affects the individual cells and those around them.

Defects are the major emerging issue as home batteries, unlike cars, have their batteries handled a lot more and while people connect and disconnect them from their chargers and this handling increases the risk of further damage. Electric cars have further issues and it has been found that simply scratching a lithium battery case renders an electric car a write off and car insurers are noting this and charging up to £100 per day just to insure them and many recovery companies are refusing to recover them due to the potential of fire and electrocution as well as leaking battery fluids.

Many of these issues cause defects and the major one is thermal runaway which is caused when an individual cell overheats and damages its separators and basically it goes into thermal runaway and the heat generated damages any surrounding cells and damage their separators and one individual cell is overheating and potentially damaging all the surrounding cells and at least weakening them. Once a single cell fails it can weaken several cells and once a few start to fail you have a chain reaction where they damage more cells and they also begin to fail and the first thing is an explosion followed by an intense flame flying out of the weak spot of the battery and this was what caused the Luton Airport car park fire as they can try and cover it up but we all saw the thermal explosion followed by the flame which are pretty unique and readily identifiable as lithium fires..

So are they safe? Actually no but they can be made much safer if you understand their weaknesses and deal with the issues individually and be prepared for if the worst happens and this begins with your house, where are you intending storing your batteries and / or electric car or anything with a lithium battery fitted.
Certain mobile phones had issues a few years ago and they were overheating and burning people and some manufacturers did a recall and the cause, yes, their lithium batteries and equipment such as electric scooters or bikes also have lithium batteries and these are just as dangerous unless a few precautions are taken.

If we begin with the humble electric car; recent legislation requires any accident damaged cars to be stored at least 15 metres or 50 feet away from anything such as other cars or buildings so we know this risk is very real and now think children dropping bikes and scooters onto the floor and crashing into each other and generally kids being kids and what damage they are doing to their lithium batteries and the future potential fires in your home. Look at your home and if you have a garage, note its location as anything lithium inside your garage can burn down your home if it is integral to your property, or attached to your property; the fire brigades response will be to let it burn out and they will try their best to control the fire to stop it spreading to nearby properties or buildings.

Now you know the risks you can take measures to attempt to mitigate them and minimise any damage they may cause and this may be extremely beneficial if you have an electric car, lithium batteries in children’s toys, or lithium batteries for your solar panels, water turbines, or wind turbines. Do you really need lithium batteries? Actually no because lead acid batteries pose fewer risks and have fewer consequences and in most cases they won’t burn your home down and they tend to be around a quarter or less in price for an equivalent lead acid battery and financially they still make economic sense.
Having a dedicated battery storage area makes sense as you can locate this away from your house and locate it in a building designed to minimise any issues with fires, putting them in a wooden shed with all your household products such as paints and thinners or indeed anything flammable is a disaster waiting to happen. If you have one of the modern steel buildings such as the steel shed you can get a steel battery casing or box and put your lithium batteries inside this and fit your charge controller/battery charger on the inside and if your children have electric bikes or scooters they can store them in there and there alone as you have your flammable risks contained in one place.
Your insurance premiums will fall as your house will not be at a lithium fire risk, your diesel or petrol cars will not be at risk and if your new shed is located correctly it will not put surrounding properties at risk and your insurers are always looking for a way out of paying you and generally you give them the evidence.

Many people and organisations often quote grade A or grade B in their advertisements so what is this and what is the difference between the different grades and how does this affect you? In basic terms grade A is the highest quality and grade B is of lower quality and grade C is even lower quality so what are the differences and how are they rated.
Lithium batteries are rated on their capacity and deterioration from charging and discharging and these are called “cycles” and in any grade the more cycles they undertake the more the battery degrades and they are rated as a percentage, and yes they are over 100% when new as a 1000 Ma/h battery maybe rated as a 1000m/a battery but it may produce 1100m/a if it is a grade A unit which would rate it at 110%. Our grade B battery may be rated as 103% when new meaning it will only give 1030m/a output which is still 3% higher than its rating and the real differences come with the cycles as a grade B battery will deteriorate faster than a grade A battery and if a grade A battery is rated for 5000 cycles then the grade B battery may only be rated for 4500 cycles. Its deterioration is called degradation and they all deteriorate with use and the grade B battery will deteriorate more over a specific number of cycles than a grade A battery will and most reputable manufacturers specify the number of designed cycles the battery will take and the degradation rate and remember this is the minimum as generally they will readily exceed this number of cycles.

Dodgy battery manufacturers will specify their batteries have grade A lithium while they actually have grade B and this is because grade B batteries are around 30-50% lower in price than a grade A lithium battery and to achieve this they buy lasers and remove the batch grade etched to the battery so they charge you a grade A price for a grade B battery as there is much more profit in it for them.
Are grade B batteries worth having? in a word, possibly as they may suffer more but if you don’t want them charging at their maximum capacity and discharging at their maximum capacity then yes they could be worth it and the lower price makes them viable for many applications and only you can decide this.

Now for the contradiction as many lithium batteries in many items suffer from one major flaw and that is to remain in good condition they need cycling and cycling is regular use as the constant charging and discharging actually improves their health and not using them makes them deteriorate quicker, so keep cycling them and drive your electric car once per week.

On a cautious note; I would suggest that people do not have lithium batteries in their homes or in buildings attached to their homes due to the fire risks, insurers are currently evaluating the possibilities of house fire claims being refused on the grounds of negligence as the party/parties willingly exposed the property to these risks.; so be aware. Insurers are also working on the concept that if a property has solar panels it must have battery storage, another assumption, and these batteries must be lithium and pose a huge risk of property damage and are looking on programmes such as Google Earth historical pictures to see if a property has, or has had solar panels.
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Post by assassin Thu Feb 01, 2024 7:26 pm

In a major addition to the above, I now have some figures supplied to the engineering community to show really how dangerous they are.
In the thermal runaway situation a chemical reaction takes place and this chemical reaction is self sustaining meaning no matter how much water you put onto it you cannot extinguish the chemical reaction, so you get more and more gas produced and this gas is so toxic you have to have breathing apparatus and the fire brigade now automatically have someone wearing a BA set at every car incident they attend until they ascertain no electric or hybrid vehicles are involved

It has been established thay between 500 to 6000 litres of explosive gas are produced per kilowatt of battery energy and the smallest electric car batteries are 40Kw they can produce 20,000 - 240,000 litres of explosive gas and as an example when we ran petrol stations the largest artuculated fuel tankers held 32,000 litres of fuel, so over 3/4 to 7.5 tankers of a petrol tanker of flammable gas. This forms as two types which are lighter than air gas and heavier than air gas and the lighter than air vapour risea and the heavier than air gas simnk to the floor so imagine this in your home. If you have an older home with a large cellar it will settle boty in the cellar and either in the loft of highest point in your home and one ignition means your home explodes. Imagine this on enlclosed spaces such as garages attached to your property where the gas quickly fills your garage and seeps into your property through apertures such as wiring holes or gas pipe holes and you get up in the morning and have a cigarettem BOOM, if you have gas central heating and it kicks up BOOM and if you park in a communal underground car park then BOOM, note the common denominator, its explosive and once detonated it explodes.

It has an explosive range and this is 4.7% to 14.7% by volume and this is its explosive range and once it reaches these figures it can explode and actually it is better exploding and burning the gas off as it is far less dangerous to life and health and a burn outside may damage property but not your health and your home.

This raises the isue of solar storage as many people fell for the solar panel scam and had them installed and will never recoup their outlay, but they have storage batteries which are lithium and often stored inside your house so the risks are very real and anything over the size of an electric scooter can be deemed as extremely dangerous and as yet we dont know the long term health implications and we all remember the smoking guff designed to cover up indistrial diseases and reduce claimants compensation by 50%.
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Post by urchinatheart Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:43 pm

These  batteries are seriously dangerous auto-arsonists. Great post.

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Post by badvoc Fri Feb 02, 2024 1:52 pm

Even if they didnot go BOOM , the unseen danger SAR rating , What is it ?

An if you've been mislead and got jabbed YOU should not go near these things "death traps"

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