A4V

can anyone relate this to the UK?

https://freedomriver.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/nafv-examplesv1-21.pdf

actually some interesting wording?

here is more back ground;

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/instrument_accepted_for_value

more comments, people may have been doing things wrong, please find the comments "Am I correct in assuming that HM Treasury is the third party?

No. The matter did not originate with them and the third party is the bank which issued the instrument in this case. "
& read from there.

http://thinkfree.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=357.0

things now are moving for me anyway regarding utilities, having found the above, wording used in previous pay by endorsement may be slighlty incorrect. Why?

Because your exemption ID may only be for use if you pay by endorsement or a4v to the govt or govt agencies most of which will be for profit private companies.

There is speculation as utilities have been sold off, what they provide is no longer public!

That is a dangerous & possibly incorrect statement to make, however in reading my 2nd post in this thread, what if you can still a4v but change the wording without using you NINO? Your NINO becomes irrelavent!

comments please.

What if wording a4v becomes:

Accepted for Value. Exempt from levy. Approved for payment. Pay (insert corporate name), Deposit to (issuing bank) and charge the same to (your name) account details are included on the remittance slip/payment slip/cheque (delete as appropriate).

By: XXXXXXX, Agent.
Date XX/XX/XX

No NINO is included as you see because it is NOT going to pay taxes or fines or other extortion like that.

comments please

here is something others may find useful originated in US

https://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/a4v-endorsement.pdf

after a rethink, your NINO MAY be required because if NINO is part of the account number at the issuing bank, then the account details are not on the payment slip.

you need the uk equivalent of the us 1040 form

mongoose wrote:you need the uk equivalent of the us 1040 form

makes sense

.....and that would be, what is commonly known as 'the self assessment tax return'

ok i will have to think on that - mmmm interesting!

The rabbit hole brought me here
http://understandcontractlawandyouwin.com/

any good?

mongoose wrote:The rabbit hole brought me here
http://understandcontractlawandyouwin.com/

any good?

thanks. Have actually seen this in the past I think, yesterday also as I was doing research. It certainly looks good so will need to delve further. I saw so much yesterday was having some difficulty coming up with something valid & cohearent to post.

After having a conversation with A.N. Other I think I will need to find something if possible that provides a current precedent of the lawful type as this trumps anything legal. This is where I was on about - what flows is it public or private:

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t3775-a4v#25267

Cheers mongoose much appreciated.

LS

Regarding A4V to it properly you may have to secure your own b'cert Trust. It looks possible to do it without but far more effort needs to be put in 1st.

Affadavits seem the best way to go but a pain in the a*se every time a bill is presented for payment.

I will endevoir to study further what I have found to try to bring the info that is needed to succeed.

Even though I have gained some experience so far I like most have not managed to get recognition that an aledged debt is cleared for utilities completely. I did get something that was to the effect £0 in outstanding balance, but when the next bill came through the previuos was added claiming it was not. From proffessional observation was told it was actually cleared.

onward & upward as they say!

LS

for those who are interested in looking into this further:

http://understandcontractlawandyouwin.com/discharging-debt-hjr-192/

http://understandcontractlawandyouwin.com/debt-discharge-private-administrative-process/hospital-bill-debt-a4v-process/

I have not been to the seminar ,nor have I studied A4V . For those thinking of doing so this may be of
use. As with all the Spaniard videos ,you need to watch until the end.

As with all methods regarding debt . Just copying a template is not enough.

My next bill is due anytime, from what I have managed to acertain this last week new ideas have formed. I will try what "spin" I can put on it to try to get a result - being actually recognised as paid - but... as we know this is difficult, has anyone actually got such a result?

what most get is a stail mate. I am now with my results so far convinced I have a sort of stale mate. Consistantly being challenged, presumptions are a must, think carefully.

LS

this is something that most going into a4v may wish to look at, form the US but:

https://johnhenryhill.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/accepted-for-value-a4v-best-explanation-of-this-u-c-c-commercial-remedy/

as further study into a4v progresses then from:

https://johnhenryhill.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/accepted-for-value-a4v-best-explanation-of-this-u-c-c-commercial-remedy/

"Acceptance for Value = Taken for Value
Issuing an instrument is not the same as issuing an instrument for value. Accepting an instrument is not the same as accepting an instrument for value. Generally, the issuer of an instrument is the one who has the duty to pay. If an instrument is issued for value, it appears its issuer is not actually a person entitled to enforce it, and may not even be a holder in due course of another enforceable instrument. He has no standing to demand payment or performance, but by issuing an instrument for value, he might be able to open a new account through the transferee’s unqualified taking of the instrument. If the issuer can get the transferee to take the instrument with no conditions on the taking, the transferee is waiving the defects in the instrument he is taking. The main defect is that there is no consideration attached to the offer to contract. There is no value in it at the point it is issued. The issuer is looking for the transferee to provide the value. The issuer is looking for the transferee to provide the consideration for both sides of the transaction. By merely taking (accepting) the instrument, the transferee becomes an accommodation party. He receives no rights, no defenses, and no value for his agreement to lend his name and his credit to the transaction. He does not realize that there is a hidden value in the instrument that he can use to his advantage if he accepts it for value and returns it.

If the issuer succeeds in creating a new account (agreement) with the transferee, he might later be able to close that account through a forced payment or collection through a penal action in an administrative proceeding. The issuer has defenses if he issues the instrument for value, that he would not have if he had just issued the instrument. He has no authority to issue the instrument, so he has to issue it for value. He is giving a subtle notice by issuing it for value that the transferee has no legal duty to pay or to contract. If the issuer were entitled to enforce the instrument, his instrument would refer to a preexisting contract in detail. Since the preexisting contract presumed to support this new simple contract is the application for the birth certificate, or a pledge of allegiance to the United States, or an application for a social security number, or an application for any number of other benefits granted by the United States, the new instrument must be issued for value. If he issues it referring to a nonexistent contract as its basis, he would not have defenses. He would be acting outside his delegation of authority. It appears “for value” may be translated into “to get value” or “to get consideration”. Example: The child acted out for attention, ie. to get attention. The man worked for money, ie. to get money. The issuer issues the instrument for value, ie. to get value."

More over its the last sentance "The issuer issues the instrument for value, ie. to get value." The "billing" Comopany issue an instrument for assumed cash to the value of £?... but at that point it is worthless until it has been accepted, yes it is an offer of a contract, but as stated has no value. In thoery one could decline the offer but as we have seen with gas & leccy, things soon go awry.

So what to do? Accept of course, why? because endorsing a4v, that gives it value & the issuer can now cash, discharge, or whatever they do with it.

IMO A4V should WORK if done correctly. What if done correctly & not accepted? Then under BOE 1882 sect 42 & 43 thats it the debt NEVER existed & any "account" should be set to £0.

I am coming accross more info as I go, but please do not leave it all to me to find, as helpful as I am I in turn also need help. Question is am I posting all I find?

To all out there, the more research is done & posted by all then the better the chances as a whole we can get that which is rightly ours.

LS

something else to think about. The phrase : "those who bring liability must also give remedy".

Liability is given in the form of an alleged bill, the remedy is at the bottom in the form of a commercial instrument, endorse it give it "life" & off you go.

Pay by endorsement should work but the gate keepers to the system are currently trying to NOT allow us to do it.

nite nite

LS

Remember the "Devil" is in the detail.

What do I mean?

Simples, those who have SAR'd utility companies to ask for proof of debt (after pay by endorsement) & what did you get back?

Please check the notation used for actual accounting. If you have a column listed as "current balance" or something like that take a good look at it. What do you see? Really have a good look & learn to comprehend accounting notation.

I MAY have it wrong, hope not. onward & upward as they say.

Any comments are welcomed.

comprehending accounting notation, from my research I hope this is correct.

if you have office excel open up a blank spreadsheet.

right click any cell & change format to "accounting" set to 2 decimal places - that is obvious with the settings contained therein.

next type a positive number eg 123 this should appear as 123.00 OK so far.

next type eg (90) press enter & -90 or -90.00 should appear. () in accounting terms would be a negative number.

So from my last post IMO if a debt was owed for utilities then surely in the "current balance" column that would indicate a balance was owed, if no () around the number then that must surely be a positive number meaning the account is in credit?

what is really required would be a column titled "outstanding balance" that would be more meaningful.

For Australian viewers here is something to browse if you are of thinking A4V

http://www.butt-onz.com.au/discharging_debts_accepted_for_value.html

here are some definitions that may help others that are looking into this subject Escrow Account:

https://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/escrow+account

this looks the simplest explanation
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/escrow.asp

I am not saying it is impossible to file a UCC-1 statement in the UK (it actually looks completely impossible) here is something to research especially if you come from the USA:

https://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/9ke6n-equivilant-filing-ucc-1-recording-notice.html