Court summons for non payment of council Tax.

by SAFA Wed 6 Dec 2017 - 20:38

Hello Everyone.
The council have alleged that Tax has not been paid by my partner, and now has been summoned to court with extra court charges.
The council demands the council tax to be paid on 21st of the month, however my girlfriend only gets paid on 28th of the month. She had spoken to the council about this issue months ago, this was discussed and agreed over the telephone and setup a standing order for the 28th of each month after she has been paid. Everything has been fine over the past couple months, and now all of a sudden this. How can this be, they have been getting their money every month. What can we do? My girlfriend says she is prepared to go to court, what can we do? how can this be right. Please help. :-)

by Tiggy Wed 6 Dec 2017 - 22:14

SAFA wrote:Hello Everyone.
The council have alleged that Tax has not been paid by my partner, and now has been summoned to court with extra court charges.
The council demands the council tax to be paid on 21st of the month, however my girlfriend only gets paid on 28th of the month. She had spoken to the council about this issue months ago, this was discussed and agreed over the telephone and setup a standing order for the 28th of each month after she has been paid. Everything has been fine over the past couple months, and now all of a sudden this. How can this be, they have been getting their money every month. What can we do? My girlfriend says she is prepared to go to court, what can we do? how can this be right. Please help. :-)

Did she get a letter of confirmation about the change of payment date ?

by Ausk Thu 7 Dec 2017 - 8:08

Always polity ask the person on the other end to send you confirmation, in writing is most preferred, ie not in electronic format.

if they say their company 'policy' prohibits this ask for a copy of that too.

by MikeThomas Thu 7 Dec 2017 - 14:37

If debt is civil then why does the Magistrates Court claim jurisdiction on Council Tax?

by **LionsShare** Thu 7 Dec 2017 - 15:44

MikeThomas wrote:If debt is civil then why does the Magistrates Court claim jurisdiction on Council Tax?

Hi MikeThomas,

please read this thread from start to finish, it may give you the answer you seek:

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t604p25-liability-order-in-respect-of-council-tax

by Tiggy Thu 7 Dec 2017 - 18:04

MikeThomas wrote:If debt is civil then why does the Magistrates Court claim jurisdiction on Council Tax?

It's written into the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 that non payment is dealt with by the Magistrates Court and because it includes committal proceedings for a refusal to pay.

by SAFA Thu 7 Dec 2017 - 18:32

Hi Tiggy, thanks for your information, we will phone the council tomorrow and ask for confirmation that they do not issue change in payment in writing via post, she will ask them tomorrow to send this information. They did confirm over the phone a couple of months ago that the changes were made and not to worry, she has logged this call the date and time and can ask for a copy of the phone call. We will phone them tomorrow and keep everyone updated on how things go. My girlfiend is upset at the moment and emotionally unable to read legislation at the moment. But we will have a look over the weekend when she feels better. Love you guys thanks.

by Ausk Sun 10 Dec 2017 - 8:16

Tiggy wrote:
MikeThomas wrote:If debt is civil then why does the Magistrates Court claim jurisdiction on Council Tax?

It's written into the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 that non payment is dealt with by the Magistrates Court and because it includes committal proceedings for a refusal to pay.

This is why we all need to lean commercial or contract law. According to commercial law, everything is an offer and we have 4 ways of dealing with it.

1. Remain silent. The number one Fatal mistake!
2. Reject it
3. Accept it
4. Conditionally Accept it - I accept you offer to pay by xyz date conditional upon proof of claim that (for example; the Council Tax, Administration & Enforcement, Regulations 1992, prohibits the council from granting a period of 7 days grace to those who submit documentary evidence of financial hardship with in 7 days of request for such evidence.)

Conditionally accepted offers put the onus of proof on to the other party.

look up Creditors in Commerce - Contract = Law Workshops

by SAFA Tue 26 Dec 2017 - 12:22

Court case is 15th January 2018, our best defense would be Conditionally accept as suggested by Ausk (Thanks Ausk). Also we could ask the council to show proof where My partner has refused to pay. My partner has not refused to pay, she only moved her payment date of her direct debit to a standing order to fall after her date she gets paid by her employer to avoid direct debits being returned again. She telephoned the council and agreed to do a standing order. Her standing order is calculated so that the council receives the full payment after a year (Using the council figures). Full payment divided by 12. So the payments will be up to date after the 12th payment (month) or 1 year. SO I cant see how the council says she is refusing to pay. Along with a conditional offer of acceptance we will also ask the council where their proof is that She has refused to pay. Thanks for the help everyone I will keep everyone posted as we progress, and read into legislation. You have restored our confidence thank you. Have a great new year chat soon. :-)

by Tiggy Wed 27 Dec 2017 - 12:43

SAFA wrote:Court case is 15th January 2018, our best defense would be Conditionally accept as suggested by Ausk (Thanks Ausk). Also we could ask the council to show proof where My partner has refused to pay. My partner has not refused to pay, she only moved her payment date of her direct debit to a standing order to fall after her date she gets paid by her employer to avoid direct debits being returned again. She telephoned the council and agreed to do a standing order. Her standing order is calculated so that the council receives the full payment after a year (Using the council figures). Full payment divided by 12. So the payments will be up to date after the 12th payment (month) or 1 year. SO I cant see how the council says she is refusing to pay. Along with a conditional offer of acceptance we will also ask the council where their proof is that She has refused to pay. Thanks for the help everyone I will keep everyone posted as we progress, and read into legislation. You have restored our confidence thank you. Have a great new year chat soon. :-)

That's where she's gone wrong, under Schedule 1 of the Council Tax (Adminstration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 if you pay be monthly instalments then you pay over 10 months not 12, that's why they've issued the summons.

by SAFA Sat 30 Dec 2017 - 0:05

mmm, interesting, thanks for the info Tiggy, would a conditional offer of acceptance suffice?

by Tiggy Sat 30 Dec 2017 - 10:42

SAFA wrote:mmm, interesting, thanks for the info Tiggy, would a conditional offer of acceptance suffice?

Suffice? In what way? It won't stop them granting the liability order and demanding the full amount outstanding for the year, if that's what you mean.

by SAFA Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 1:23

Sorry about not being specific. You are correct, My girlfriend confirms that her payments are spread over a year, she made this offer over the phone, they excepted it and did not tell her she would end up in court. They can do a liability order and demand the payment in full, they simply wont get their money he does not have it, that is why she offered to pay over a 12 month period. I thought this phone call to the council was a conditional offer of acceptance. The call was recorded allegedly. What I meant by suffice was, would a conditional offer of acceptance keep the council from taking her to court? Her court case is on 11 January not 15th like I said previously, what would happen if she got a liability order, can they do this? This whole corrupt system blows my mind, they are cold evil bastards. Talking to us in a language we cant understand (Legalese) and them saying ignorance is no excuse. These people are not right in the head.

by Tiggy Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 14:41

SAFA wrote:Sorry about not being specific. You are correct, My girlfriend confirms that her payments are spread over a year, she made this offer over the phone, they excepted it and did not tell her she would end up in court. They can do a liability order and demand the payment in full, they simply wont get their money he does not have it, that is why she offered to pay over a 12 month period. I thought this phone call to the council was a conditional offer of acceptance. The call was recorded allegedly. What I meant by suffice was, would a conditional offer of acceptance keep the council from taking her to court? Her court case is on 11 January not 15th like I said previously, what would happen if she got a liability order, can they do this? This whole corrupt system blows my mind, they are cold evil bastards. Talking to us in a language we cant understand (Legalese) and them saying ignorance is no excuse. These people are not right in the head.

I think there may have been a misunderstanding over the telephone call, the person she spoke to couldn't agree repayment over 12 months, the regulations simply don't allow for it.

I suspect they thought she just wanted to change the date of her instalment payment.

So in answer, yes they can get the liability order, the best thing for her to do would be to go into the offices and explain the misunderstanding and see what if anything they can do, as a liability order adds £70 to the bill and then they start adding on hundreds in enforcement costs.

by waylander62 Sun 31 Dec 2017 - 19:59

i dont normally get involved with council tax issues too much conflicting information however having read through this briefly i will offer my own bit of advice.

The council can and often do spread payments over 12 months instead of 10, and can and often do change the payment date to help people who have contacted them, normally if you have made an arrangement over the phone they will send you an amended bill with the number of payments to be made, the amount to be paid each month, and the date upon which in needs to be paid.
1) has an amended bill been sent through the post
2) have they sent you letters reminding you that your payments are overdue and threatening further action
if your court 'hearing' is on the 11th january then you have time to sort this before going to court.

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