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Post by eargoggles on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:24 am

Hi there, I have a contract of employment with a company .In their contract there are one or two statements regarding bank holidays and rate`s of pay for those bank holiday days which the company are now saying do not apply .
The contract of employment I have does not have a wet signature but it does have a name printed of the person who authorized the contract . Can this person be held liable for the false information within the contract even though they never actually signed it . thanks

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Re: No wet signature

Post by LionsShare on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:42 pm

Not too sure regarding these types of contract but:

From my experience with dca over uilities when they send an unsigned letter I always send back to the effect: "this has NO liability on your part unless you sign" (in reality only worth the paper it is written on!). So far not had 1 response back to contradict me!
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Re: No wet signature

Post by Tiggy on Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:55 pm

@eargoggles wrote:Hi there, I have a contract of employment with a company .In their contract there are one or two statements regarding bank holidays and rate`s of pay for those bank holiday days which the company  are now saying do not apply .
The contract of employment I have does not have a wet signature but it does have a name printed of the person who authorized the contract . Can this person be held liable  for the false information within the contract even though they never actually signed it  . thanks
A contract doesn't have to be signed to be valid, it doesn't even have to be a written contract to still be valid.

In respect to contract terms, they can be varied. You as a party to the contract can either accept the changes or not accept by leaving the company. Alternatively, you can do what's known as 'sit and sue', staying in the employment but suing for breach of contract.

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Re: No wet signature

Post by eargoggles on Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:50 am

@Tiggy wrote:
A contract doesn't have to be signed to be valid, it doesn't even have to be a written contract to still be valid.

In respect to contract terms, they can be varied.  You as a party to the contract can either accept the changes or not accept by leaving the company.  Alternatively, you can do what's known as 'sit and sue', staying in the employment but suing for breach of contract.
thanks for the reply's and thanks Tiggy if it`s not too much trouble how would i proceed to 'sit and sue,or could you point me to some more in depth info. thanks

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Re: No wet signature

Post by actinglikeabanker's Ghost on Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:26 am

Hey,

You need to provide more details, are you a full time or part-time and they are saying those apply to full time staff?.

Not sure if any of these will fit your circumstance based on what you have shared so far := http://goodf.forumotion.com/t655-making-an-employment-or-similar-claim-legislation-that-may-help-you

Like Tiggy said employment contracts do not even need to be written to effect a breach of trust/contract, such as verbal promises of promotion etc that do not materialise, it is the proving of it that is often the problem.

Possibly, the avenue that you may consider is to contact ACAS (should you end up in a tribunal you will need to do this anyway), If you are 100% confident that you are suffering a detriment through this then you would need to raise a grievance with your employer (warning, once you start this process it is highly possible that you will be pushed out in some way as a problem maker, it will most likely create a toxic work environment for you).

If you follow the grievance route then keep in mind the 3 month threshold on evidence (this will be the date that they told you hey are not honouring those terms of employment) for employment tribunals as if they know what they are doing then they will drag their feet (also why its good to touch base with ACAS as early as possible) ACAS can also offer a mediation service prior to it going to a tribunal and even extend the evidence threshold  by 1 month/5 weeks before submission of tribunal application is required, this is to allow mediation enough time.

If you stay and don't say anything/raise a grievance then after a period it will be viewed by the courts as acceptable treatment by you and accepted new contract terms.

You also need to be prepared to jump ship if you have them banged to rights as you will get any monies owed but obviously you would need to find alternative employment.

If you have any types of insurance, house, car etc that has legal cover they can sometimes help with other legal matters (check the policies). Consider a free hour with an employment solicitor to see what they say.

Lots more, impossible to cram in to one message.

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Re: No wet signature

Post by eargoggles on Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:44 am

it`s quite simple really , what is written in the contract and what the employer`s are now saying are two totally different things regarding working bank holidays and rates of pay , surely if you are gonna change what`s in a contract the two parties must be made fully aware and a new contract with the altered terms and conditions drawn up and offered to the employee `s ,yes we are full time

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Re: No wet signature

Post by actinglikeabanker's Ghost on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:00 pm

Well then it would be breach of contract. As above "If you stay and don't say anything/raise a grievance then after a period it will be viewed by the courts as acceptable treatment by you and accepted new contract terms."

If you have already worked the hours then it would also be non payment of wages/unlawful deduction from wages.

If you have been employed less than two years with the same employer then they can pretty much get rid of you without needing to give any great reason other than along the lines of "it just isn't working out".

If you have them saying this in writing then great, if not then you need to request this in writing and their reasons why they have changed the terms. Then follow the company grievance procedure (keep in mind the time limits. if you have worked the hours then it will be from the time you realised your underpay).

Whatever avenue you decide to take the rest in previous post still stands. If you don't follow the grievance procedure, even if you don't see it through due to them dragging their feet then it is not looked at favourably on you in a tribunal, should it end up there.

It is likely they would just fold and pay you what is owed during any mediation with ACAS as they will know they will lose at a tribunal, presuming it is a clear cut contradiction between what is stated in the contract and what they are saying (get evidence in writing if you can) now.

There are other possible avenues that you can take should they just try firing you but, as previously mentioned "Lots more, impossible to cram in to one message.".

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Re: No wet signature

Post by eargoggles on Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:36 am

thanks for the info actinglikeabanker

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Re: No wet signature

Post by Ausk on Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:20 am

have you approached them and asked them to sign the contract?

Have they given you a reason for why a senior manager has not signed it?

My research says, only the CEO or the CFO can bind an organisation in contract.

In large organisation such a duty to sign an employment contract will likely have been delegated to someone.

It might be worth inquiring along these lines.

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Re: No wet signature

Post by actinglikeabanker's Ghost on Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:25 am

Hey Ausk,

The signature is not relevant, chasing a signature or an updated one on the contract is irrelevant and a waste of valuable evidence threshold time for tribunal. Additionally, it makes you look vexatious trying to just cause problems with your employer for every minor detail that you don't understand.  

Employment contracts := https://www.gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions

Employment tribunals - claims for breach of contract := https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/employment-tribunals-from-29-july-2013/making-an-employment-tribunal-claim-is-it-worth-it/employment-tribunals-claims-for-breach-of-contract/

Breach of contract := http://www.rightsatwork.co.uk/employment-law/breach-of-contract.html

Breach of contract := https://www.inbrief.co.uk/contract-law/breach-of-contract/

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