Work Overpayment

by eargoggles Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:37 pm

hi there, i received a letter from a previous employer saying they had made an error over payment of £800 in my wages and are now wanting it back ,it was a bit of a bad surprise really because it was over a year ago that i left their employment .They made an offer of 25% reduction if i paid up within a couple of weeks ,i didn`t meet their deadline because the letter was sent to a previous address i don`t live at anymore.They have sent another letter saying they are gonna take action to recover the money if i don`t come to some arrangement with them . I was not aware of any overpayment at the time ,maybe this is another error they have made, they have sent no facts or figures ,i still have the contract of employment they gave me and it dosn`t say anywhere that if they overpay me i have to give it back. what do you reckon thanks

by **daveiron** Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:27 pm

The first place to start is to request / require proof of claim.

by **assassin** Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:17 pm

As above, and their mistake is their mistake and you cannot be held liable for their mistakes or those of their staff.

I would suggest something dodgy here as wages are a legitimate company expense and can be written off against tax, so maybe they have something else to hide?

by eargoggles Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:03 pm

thanks Daveiron and assassin for your reply`s ,what else do you think they have to hide assassin ?
i don`t realy want to ask them for a run down of the figures yet cause they would probs just make one up and i could not realy double check it ,i can`t afford to pay the alleged amount back .

by **assassin** Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:14 am

I would suggest an accounting problem with HMRC and they are looking to balance their figures.

by eargoggles Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:49 am

thanks assassin ,yes appears so. is there any legislation that protects me from their cock ups ,as in them wanting the alleged amount back and causing me all this distress through no fault of mine . thanks

by **daveiron** Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:43 am

This should be useful.

https://www.birkettlong.co.uk/site/library/legalnews/recovery_of_overpayment_of_wages.html

by eargoggles Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:28 pm

thanks for that daveiron. so if i send them an estopal tell them to stop harassing me the money has long gone and it was no fault of mine ,it was caused by their incompetence .

by **daveiron** Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:06 pm

Yes send the letter. Tbh I dont think its worth their while to pursue this.

by **assassin** Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:01 am

Its another case of trying it on and they are hoping you dont know your rights and repay it.

They basically hope you will contract with them and they will have a legal basis for actions to enforce the contract so if a claim is made, then in law it stands unless it is rebutted in substance. This is your first port of call, ask for evidence of this claim to show it is not a "section 13" and rebut their claim in writing and cite employment legislation as your defence, and incluse estoppel in your letter.

by handle Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:12 am

They are trying very hard. There's another agenda at play here.

by eargoggles Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:04 am

thanks assassin ,yes i`m sending a proof of claim today .what is a section 13 ?

by **daveiron** Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:11 am

Employment Rights Act 1996 section 13
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/13

by eargoggles Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:49 am

thanks daveiron ,yes it also refers to section 13 in the link you sent me yesterday ,sorry i forgot that bit because i` am not employed with the company anymore, i focused more on the later section "after an employee has left the company" so section 13 does not apply to me ,,,,,i think. lol

by eargoggles Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:35 am

i ve wrote this letter could anyone give it a bit more teeth or make it sound a more intellegent thanks

Dear XXXX ,
thank you for your letter regarding an alleged overpayment of £XXX.XX.
For this matter to move forward I require from you a proof of claim .I require all accounting concerning this matter to be sent to me within 14 days ,If you can not send me a proof of claim please do not contact me again otherwise I will consider this harassment and will take legal action against you personally under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 for causing me distress and alarm.

yours sincerely xxx

i haven`t made one up before ,does it look ok.

by **assassin** Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:23 pm

Dear XXXX ,
thank you for your letter regarding an alleged overpayment of £XXX.XX.

Your claims and allegations are rebutted in their entirity as your mistakes, errors, and omissions are your responsibility and not mine.

Section 13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 make it very clear that overpayments cannot be recouped, therefore any further proceedings will be in breach of the law and this will potentially open you up to a civil claim as well as criminal proceedings. I remind you of the Harassment Act.

yours sincerely xxx

i haven`t made one up before ,does it look ok.

by **daveiron** Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:33 pm

You could add "This is now a matter of estoppel and I draw your attention to County Council of Avon v Howlett"

by eargoggles Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:32 pm

ha ha ,straight to the point assassin, looks good and thanks for that daveiron,i`m still trying to understand the last bit of the avon v Howlett is this the correct link to that case https://www.oxbridgenotes.co.uk/revision_notes/bcl-law-oxford-restitution-of-unjust-enrichment-bcl/samples/avon-v-dot-howlett

by **daveiron** Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:45 pm

Thats the one ,this went to appeal & the teacher won.
Got this from the top link ,so drop the estoppel point.

In County Council of Avon v Howlett a teacher was overpaid sick pay. He queried the payments at the time but was told they were correct. By the time the Council realised its mistake the teacher had spent most of the money. The Court of Appeal decided that the defence of estoppel prevented the Council from recovering the full amount of the overpayments.

by eargoggles Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:07 pm

ah get it ,it`s because he had queried the payment when it happened and was told it was correct.it was their tough luck then

by **assassin** Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:37 am

I would leave that out Dave, if they break the law it is automatically estopped and the important bit is to rebut their claims as this could rise up and bite you in the backside in the future; if it is rebutted and uses legislation to do this it is sufficient and if you fail to rebut you are consenting to their claims. You can keep your powder dry and use estoppel if they persist and back it with the law and legal precedents and most corporate legal eagles will tell them to drop it.

by handle Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:44 am

I agree, leave it out

by flyingfish Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:11 am

I don't believe Section 13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 applies as Section 14 exempts deductions to correct previous overpayments, although there are qualifications. However neither section apply to a former employee, as this claim would not be a deduction in any case.

In some material advising employers, I found this which is more or less as others have already said, frustratingly it doesn't cite either legislation or case law in support ..

"The employee may have a defence to a claim for repayment on the basis that they were led to believe that they were entitled to the money and that, in good faith (ie honestly), they relied on the money. This usually means that the employee has spent it or used it to repay any outstanding debts. Provided it wasn't the fault of the employee that they were overpaid, they have a chance of defending any claim."

by **assassin** Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:25 am

Precedents have already been set for this and it applies.

by eargoggles Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:46 am

flyingfish wrote: However neither section apply to a former employee, as this claim would not be a deduction in any case.
"[/i]

Hi flying fish ,the overpayment was made while i was an employee .nothing from that company was ever put in to my bank account after i ceased to be an employee of theirs by date . The first i knew of an alleged overpayment was a year later by post .

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