Re: 24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies

by ceylon Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:11 pm

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/bconline/buildingControlDetails.do?activeTab=dates&keyVal=_RBKC_BCAPR_123520

2014

by handle Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:20 pm

Daveiron these videos are useful. Please keep us updated if that is ok with you. I dont think annielogic is disertified enough to attract users from this site

by Phillpots Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:24 pm

Thanks for the post ceylon. Went to archive.is this page but I see it was already done 5 days ago.

by **daveiron** Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:48 pm

Ok ,thanks guys, I will in that case post Annies links where appropriate .

by **Society of the Spectacle** Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:19 pm

This is the Page that needs sharing
ALL the recent Planning application decisions.
https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/planning/searches/default.aspx?adv=1&address=GRENFELL+TOWER&batch=20#tabs-planning-2

by handle Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:14 pm

Nice one sots
This is interesting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_and_Chelsea_TMO

The tenant management co described as a mini mafia

by handle Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:18 pm

click on the image or finger for a few secs (for ipad/iphone etc)

24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies - Page 4 Image11

by handle Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:29 pm

And here the people
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03048135/officers

by handle Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:48 pm

£15m on admin expenses for 218 staff
At least they are paid well
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by handle Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:06 am

The cladding was aluminium. It cannot be put out by water when it burns.

http://www.g2mil.com/aluminum.htm
Aluminum is much lighter than steel and relatively strong. Since it doesn't rust, it seems like the ideal metal for ships. However, no one uses aluminum for fighting ships because it can catch fire when hit, which produces intense heat that cannot be extinguished with water orHMS Sheffield regular fire extinguishers. In fact, aluminum is so volatile that powdered aluminum is a prime component in rocket fuel. The US Air Force 15,000 BLU-82B bomb contains 12,600 pounds of low-cost GSX slurry (ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, and polystyrene). The frigate USS Belknap was severely damaged in a collision with the aircraft carrier John F. Kennedy on 22 November 1975 off the coast of Sicily. A fire broke out on Belknap following the collision, and during the fire her aluminum superstructure was melted, burned, and gutted to the deck level.

by ceylon Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:21 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl-mtBtMmnQ

by handle Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:00 pm

Ok the substance in the celotex is called reynobond or reynalux which appear to have failed fire testing in France. However it got a class 0 here meaning it's the best for fire protection

by midnight Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:09 pm

Camden Council are evacuating more than 800 households from five tower blocks. This is being reported on Sky news now.

by Awoken2 Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:01 pm

I think you should watch this video. It's contents raise some very serious questions about how this fire was handled.

The important point here is that the fire was reported at 1.16 am, it would have been dark. By the time this video was shot it was way past dawn, which is around 3.50 am, judging by the light I'd say it was a couple of hours after day break. So this incident is at least 4 hours in.

Now I don't know much about being a fireman, but as a human being I would not be sat around while innocent people were burning to death. I find it totally unbelievable whilst people were still at their windows begging for help that on duty firemen sat by. If they were blackened with soot and being treated for exhaustion then fair enough but that is not what this video shows.

Please watch and judge for yourselves

https://youtu.be/o7zPwoISwBU

by **assassin** Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:20 am

Firemen are on duty 24/7 and can respond immediately, every retained fireman I know or knew (there are a lot) had to be at their designated fire station in 5 minutes of a call and this includes driving at normal road speeds, so there would be a great many firemen present.

by Awoken2 Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:23 am

assassin wrote:Firemen are on duty 24/7 and can respond immediately, every retained fireman I know or knew (there are a lot) had to be at their designated fire station in 5 minutes of a call and this includes driving at normal road speeds, so there would be a great many firemen present.

I'm not bringing into question the firemen's availability, response time or the protocols of a retained fireman or their numbers.

What I am bringing into question is the actions of the firemen in this video from 11 minutes 56 seconds ( if you didn't watch the whole video).

To me they all appeared to lack a little urgency considering there were still people trapped in the building.

by handle Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:42 pm

Which video?

by Awoken2 Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:08 pm

handle wrote:Which video?

Three messages back at bottom of page Handle

by handle Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:54 pm

Thanks. Cant see everything on my phone so thought it was the 1990 something vid.

by Little D Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:39 am

Fighting fire is no easy task.

A fire fighter/human can only physically fight a fire for a certain period of time depending on space, heat, smoke, air etc etc.

Once a fire fighter has reached a point, depending on the circumstances of a fire, smoke, heat, space, air etc etc then they withdraw from the fire and are replaced by a fresh 'ish' depending on the fire, fire fighter.

Once they withdraw they have to take a break to recover, if memory serves it is about 15 mins of essentially looking like they do in the vid 'sitting around'.

So whilst we cant see 200 hundred fire fighters, they will be stacked up in a conveyor like way to keep the hose/hoses on the fire/fires.

Rules of Engagement for Structural Firefighting Increasing Firefighter Survival := http://www.safetyandhealthweek.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Safety_ROE_Lesson_Plans.pdf

by handle Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:18 pm

WHERE ARE THE VICTIMS?
D j isla speaks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FofQcnuSHUY

by Awoken2 Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:50 pm

Let me make this point. The footage may well be showing firemen on a rest break or awaiting instruction but their body language does not indicate that they are in an emergency situation.

I have searched the internet extensively for over a week now and I am unable to find ANY footage of firefighters fighting that fire other than a single line being used by a single firefighter up an extended ladder. This is the ONLY footage of anybody attempting to extinguish this fire. If anybody can find me either a picture or phone footage of more than a single line of water tackling this fire then please feel free to share it.

If anybody can show me ANY footage of a fireman either going in or coming out of the building again please feel free to share it as I can't find any. Or any fireman who looks like he's just tackled a serious fire even.

The video I posted clearly shows 3 separate pockets of fire coming out of the windows which indicates that the fire was spreading quicker internally than it was externally so it wasn't just the cladding that was responsible.

The reason given why they couldn't get to people trapped in the building by the fire service is because they couldn't get past the fire on the second floor but the fire started on the fourth floor so the fire travelled down two floors, this can't be done unless there are highly combustible materials inside the building also.

I'd be very happy to be proved wrong but I'm going on all evidence available at this time.

by handle Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:57 pm

Where are the other towers in close proximity to Grenfell in all the news pictures. In the one photo i could find Grenfell is on the left. I saw the other towers approx the same size to grenfell in the close proximity to grenfell. How come those towers were not cladded.

http://www.counterfire.org/images/stories/jun2017/grenfell_tower_lg.jpg

http://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/19039-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-exposes-the-deep-class-divide-in-our-society
24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies - Page 4 Grenfell_tower_lg

24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies - Page 4 Grenfell_tower_lg

24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies - Page 4 Image19

by handle Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:36 pm

So many questions:
Where are the victims?
Why only Grenfell cladded when many other towers in the vicinity?
Why scheduled for demolition in 2014 and then had money spent?
Why no news photos showing other towers, only showing shots of grenfell?

by Awoken2 Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:06 pm

These figures have been officially put forward by the London Fire Brigade.

Victims dead or presumed dead 79

People rescued by fire service. 65

Victims in hospital. 37

That's 181 in total.

A fair bit short of the early estimated 500-600 people who would have been in a fully occupied building so this means that either the building was only partially occupied or the rest of the occupants got out of the building before the fire service arrived on scene.

http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/LatestIncidentsContainer_grenfell-tower-fire-update-15-june-2017.asp

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24 Storey Tower on Fire in Kensington - dies