Bank Giro Credit

Ok, hopefully I got it right this time. A pic of the giro. I can peel off the labels if they are not correct. I alters the amount as they added fees that don’t apply because my account was in dispute, plus they have not listed them.

I will look at promissory notes, but still tying to comprehend why if the money is being drawn from our trust anyway, and this is a cheque, why should we not just sign it and send it without payment? No need to transfer it as it is not made out to me, but it is a bank giro credit, so where does the credit come from?

having looked at your pic the 'credit account' is missing.

Please compare it to what I have suggested in the other posts & make up your own mind.

Its the credit account that I think makes the difference, if it goes to court & you cliam....... then as that account is missing it could cause problems?

Remember these slippery fookers are causing problems for all because the info given on the giro slip differs. Your best bet is to queery your 'sluppier' the agreement signed & get them to show it through a DSAR under GDPR2018. The agreement shuold show WE are the CREDITORS - that will take some explaining - TRUSTS - please research. Who is the Benificary? Who is the Trustee? Who is the Debtor/Grantor? Here's a clue the signor is the Grantor, who was that?

Depending on what comes through then get in touch with us here again on goodf.

You need that 'credit account'.

that's the best I can do for now - I'm trying to help the best I can.

LS

OWtothelight there is far too much info missing to say for sure its a joint giro, you will need to get the info as best you can on a document as previously described.

it needs to look like this:
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t5648-most-complete-bank-giro-credit

look in the 1st post as far as you can get & compare.

please remember I am NOT legally qualified so I will help as far as court bullshit, if it gets that for you & me & everyone we all are fucked.

Do CPR rules apply to wo/man? NO do they fook. In other words there really is no debt I can ramble on for hours as most know here, there really is NO debt, why? Because the '£' is a promise to pay, read any bank note it will tell you straight, meaning there is no money & no way of paying anything. I have loads of info on this subject here on goodf.

Yes have had a few beers too as I write, so what?

LS

LionsShare

Thanks for the information and all taken on board, at the moment though I just want to pay this final bill and have nothing more to do with vp, contract already cancelled by holding them to their original agreement and by using common law and what I have learned of contracts. I was just hoping to be able to use the giro and BOE rather than paying it out of my very scarce money.

On the whole, with the giro and BOE process the bit I don't get is if it is a giro credit, why do we need to transfer and endorse it at all? It's a cheque from our trust account, made out to the supplier. Or are the bank giros simply paying in slips? On a joint giro if we write a BOE, they are getting paid twice, so why not just sign it and send it back, with a note saying accepted for value.

from your 1st paragraph the giro is a template for a BOE as in there is no signature as per the BOE act 1882 sect3 sub(1). Your signature is simply endorsing - passing on - the giro if you like giving credence or some substance of life, saying its good to go sort of thing.

your 2nd paragraph, the reason you transfer is to give it 'life', saying its correct or giving your permission. When you state 'from our trust account', yes I suppose you are right but I will not give it full credence saying its correct as I don't have full disclosure on the full process.

You are A4V-ing it by using your NINO & the wording used - OK don't exactly say 'Accept For Value' but the wording that's used is the important thing. They are only getting paid 2ice if you simply give it back & send extra cash/cheque or a prom note. Endorsing alone they are not as far as I can see getting it 2ice.

As you state just simply signing & sending back should be enough, I have tried that with water & it got ignored - they carried on.........

Ok,thanks that is a bit clearer. looking at the slip I have and reviewing what you said and the picture you posted of a slip that must have a payment with it, the one I have it has added value, the amount in the thick Lind black box, it does not state payment methods stated overleaf or that a cheque must be accompanied. So I think I will have a go with the endorsing it. If I change the amount in the box by sticking a label over it, is that fraud?

We seem to confuse bills and invoices or they have Ben deliberately confused. If s bill as per bills of exchange is a payment, as in the old US word of bills for bank notes, then when we are sent a bill, we must be being sent a credit? If it is an amount we owe, it's an invoice, that we must pay to honour our agreement but if we are sent a bill we accept it for value?? So if we accept it for value as cash. Can spend it on what we want but if we accept it for value in payment of a fee then it must be returned. is that right?

So if we receive a letter that states it is a bill, then it must be a payment or credit, and if on that bill it states an account number and invoice number then that is what the bill is intended to pay, so we endorse it with our signature, accept it for vallue and send it back?

Re: the numbers on the bottom of the BGC. in maths symbolism > means greater than < means less than. On th BGC I have > precedes the chq number, so presumably this is a credit symbol, < precedes my customers account number and must be a debit symbol, > precedes the sort code so must be th credit symbol for payment into that account, this is followed by + < 00X so they add as a debit the last number which I am sure is our NI reference number. The creditor is the sort code + a debit from our NI ref or trust account.

OWtothelight wrote:Re: the numbers on the bottom of the BGC. in maths symbolism > means greater than < means less than. On th BGC I have > precedes the chq number, so presumably this is a credit symbol, < precedes my customers account number and must be a debit symbol, > precedes the sort code so must be th credit symbol for payment into that account, this is followed by + < 00X so they add as a debit the last number which I am sure is our NI reference number. The creditor is the sort code + a debit from our NI ref or trust account.

don't have any info on what you state so can't comment, granted though full disclosure would be benificial

OWtothelight wrote:We seem to confuse bills and invoices or they have Ben deliberately confused. If s bill as per bills of exchange is a payment, as in the old US word of bills for bank notes, then when we are sent a bill, we must be being sent a credit? If it is an amount we owe, it's an invoice, that we must pay to honour our agreement but if we are sent a bill we accept it for value?? So if we accept it for value as cash. Can spend it on what we want but if we accept it for value in payment of a fee then it must be returned. is that right?

Yes we are being sent credit because we are the credit. Regarding the amount 'owed' as the GBP - '£' is FIAT currency & worthless how can we literally owe a debt? As we are the credit then any new cash value is generated by us? Remember bills of exchange or think as bills in exchange is simply the passing around of bits of inked paper that's all & nowt else.

You are close, the way I see it as, we are the credit then there is a pre-paid account with the NINO being the public front end. Does the cash come out of NINO? I don't know. As there is a public side to commerce there must also be a private side too? Its possible any of this cash value comes from a private side account? I have used question marks in this narrative because these are questions that fully need answering. Remember I don't have full disclosure. If you want to see if it comes out of your NINO then DSAR the Revenue & ask to see ful accounting on your public NINO, it should show debts/credits there.

OWtothelight wrote:So if we receive a letter that states it is a bill, then it must be a payment or credit,  

No, Why? If I send you a bill for.... does that mean its credit or have added value?

OWtothelight wrote: and if on that bill it states an account number and invoice number then that is what the bill is intended to pay, so we endorse it with our signature, accept it for vallue and send it back?

It would have to have the word 'credit' not simply account. An invoice is completely different to a bill, a bill is a demand for payment as for an invoice I'll let you research that.

When sending these joint giros back its been A4V'd & retruned for value. These types of 'bills' are issued for value but the sender is not really entitled to have anything off you in return (this gets confusing - agreements) as there is nothing actually issued for value (remember 'value' is a human concept) & nothing seen for value either, then what is it all about? Its about getting some sort of commerce to take place, when this happens & you acquiesce, by being silent then the debt is admitted, after 90 days it becomes a lien - charging order (assumed to be true because there was no response, court follows &.....) & the real way to set aside (cancel) is to take part by accepting & returning for value signed. Does that make things clearer?

You need to research what an agreement is over a contract & how does that apply to you? clue - signed 1 sided & its securitised, so who has the agreement?

OWtothelight wrote:We seem to confuse bills and invoices or they have Ben deliberately confused. If s bill as per bills of exchange is a payment ..

the word "bill" has various meanings, a "bill" is not necessarily a "bill of exchange".

Flyingfish. the word "bill" has various meanings, a "bill" is not necessarily a "bill of exchange".

I wast thinking more of, is it how they are using and presenting the term, givien system they are using and how they use it. My 'bill" shows 0.00 in black. Added charges in red and final amount in black. Black being credit, in the world of accounting and red debit. Are they using the term bill indicate a credit as per the corporations have to provide remedy, and the bill being provided is a bill of exchange?

I Remember hearing people say ,send me a bill and I will endorse it, can't remember where, but maybe this has long been an accepted system among those who know, in the corporate world, must be tied up somehow in the business numbers of registration, to access the trusts. Only coporations with assets over 2miillion can accept a BOE or PN. Despite what we are told, there has to be something to back the promise, access to some sort of fund, stock asset, Or maybe it's th trust value of the corporation itself as it reaches 2 million in assets. The promises may fly around as numbers on paper and screens, but there has to something backing them should the drawee want to use their funds elsewhere. Otherwise, we would not have to use such an elaborate method that we have been shown to endorse or send BOE, we would simply write a note saying I.O.U. And there would be no issue. We are always told to add our NI number, we give this when opening a bank account, every transaction we make uses our NI number, if we setup a DD with our bank and a third party they will access our NI number, so any account we have with the third party will be associated with NI No and linked to the account number stated on bills and giros. So a bill with our account number, is raising a credit for someone even if it is not us. And more likely the bank, the bulk clearing banks, and the supplier all get a dip for the amount stated on our 'bill'. And if we add a cheque all 3 get paid again. Because when we give our Number we allow them to act as agents for our trust. It's not that the money or 'credit' does not exist, it's that they do not tell us where it is.

OWtothelight you may well be right, but to add some research for you, what do you think? I put it to you our Trustees may well be the respective councils & RCJ in the Strand London?

Truth Talk 56 want your Trust? Watch the whole video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7e8Tq2yg8g

also read:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/51-52/41/section/79
All duties and liabilities of the inhabitants of a county shall become and be duties and liabilities of the council of such county.

LionsShare wrote:OWtothelight you may well be right, but to add some research for you, what do you think? I put it to you our Trustees may well be the respective councils & RCJ in the Strand London?


also read:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/51-52/41/section/79
All duties and liabilities of the inhabitants of a county shall become and be duties and liabilities of the council of such county.

LS this is something i have read too, this could be a way out for CT, but also read somewhere that this is why the councils change their titles/ names, so for instance my council is London Borough of Havering(so county may not work addressing them) however the county the council are under is Essex County Council or at least thats what i can make of it, im probably well off as usual

Be lucky
SS

Hi SS,
I definatly think you are on to somat. For CT, its the council you discharge monies to are the county borough council, even if they change thier name &amp; would be IMO the 1's that are the Trustees - of course I could be wrong?

(2646)

LionsShare wrote:When sending these joint giros back its been A4V'd & retruned for value. These types of 'bills' are issued for value but the sender is not really entitled to have anything off you in return (this gets confusing - agreements) as there is nothing actually issued for value (remember 'value' is a human concept) & nothing seen for value either, then what is it all about? Its about getting some sort of commerce to take place, when this happens & you acquiesce, by being silent then the debt is admitted, after 90 days it becomes a lien - charging order (assumed to be true because there was no response, court follows &.....) & the real way to set aside (cancel) is to take part by accepting & returning for value signed. Does that make things clearer?

You need to research what an agreement is over a contract & how does that apply to you? clue - signed 1 sided & its securitised, so who has the agreement?

Something I forgot, - agreements please research what a Trust is & why you are sent these joint giros, its quite simple, which PERSON is the TRUSTEE, remember the TRUSTEE is the liable 1 for the Trust, so OWtothelight, how do Trusts relate to you in an agreement? I'll give you ahead start, you are the Settlor in that type of relationship, how are you OWtothelight the Settlor?

OWtothelight, this may be of help to answer the questions I posed:
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t1506-joint-bank-giro-credit-slip-missing-utility-company-has-not-sent-with-their-fake-bill-s-need-advice-please#11899

LionsShare wrote:

LionsShare wrote:When sending these joint giros back its been A4V'd & retruned for value. These types of 'bills' are issued for value but the sender is not really entitled to have anything off you in return (this gets confusing - agreements) as there is nothing actually issued for value (remember 'value' is a human concept) & nothing seen for value either, then what is it all about? Its about getting some sort of commerce to take place, when this happens & you acquiesce, by being silent then the debt is admitted, after 90 days it becomes a lien - charging order (assumed to be true because there was no response, court follows &.....) & the real way to set aside (cancel) is to take part by accepting & returning for value signed. Does that make things clearer?

You need to research what an agreement is over a contract & how does that apply to you? clue - signed 1 sided & its securitised, so who has the agreement?

Something I forgot, - agreements please research what a Trust is & why you are sent these joint giros, its quite simple, which PERSON is the TRUSTEE, remember the TRUSTEE is the liable 1 for the Trust, so OWtothelight, how do Trusts relate to you in an agreement? I'll give you ahead start, you are the Settlor in that type of relationship, how are you OWtothelight the Settlor?

He is also the beneficiary..............................

I was hopping OWtothelight would come back after perhaps researching what I am on about with an answer.

Yes OWtothelight is also the Benificiary.

Trust has 3 entities, Settlor the 1 who places ? into Trust, Trustee - the 1 who is responsible for running & liable for Trust out goings, Benificary - 1 who receives ? from the Trust.

Agreements & Trusts:

Settlor the 1 who signs for the agreement thus creating the Trust & places into Trust the opportunity for Util Co to exclusivly profit (meaning no other Util Co is suppose to 'butt' in).

Trustee the Util Co, must settle liabilities of the Trust (here the out going liability is simply the cashing of the tearoff slip to get dsicharge (paid) if they don't bother, try & fail, don't know how, is thier liability), & are not entitled to receive anything from Settlor or Benificiary.

Benificary - you; receive the ability to wash, heat, light, cook etc

the joint giro or giro with added value (non transcash logo but with all the correct bits) is there for you to sign, date, & return that's it, that should be the end but it ain't...... onwards & upwards

Agreements & Trusts:

remember why you are given the joint giro, can you reach an agreement with a corporation - dead legal fiction? If you are shown the creation of a corporation it will be the certificate of birth for that corporation, the certificate of incorporation, try & talk to that piece of paper & get a reaction. Of course you can't.

Only man can only contract/agree with another man, a corporation can only contract/agree with another corporation by re-presentation.

The 'hassle' of trying to administer your situation is placed into to Trust by the written agreement, the 'hassle' you nor I should be getting but are over these joint giros should be dealt with by simply signing, dating, & returning - job done? But these greedy fookers want more profit on the public side.

Sending the joint giro back with a prom note creates a surplus on the private side & should generate for you a refund? But will you get 1 from those greedy..... No of course not. Where does that surplus go? Don't have that info unfortunatly, yes 1 can speculate but without coorect info then.......

As far as I see 1 of the 'agreed' conditions of the b'cert is to play the part & agree to discharge properly in this 'world of commerce', but we are not told that, the system that's suppose to work for us has been stolen & is manipulated thus to enslave us all. But now some of are working things out & fighting back!

believe me when you get your head around this, it really is a piece if pi*ss - not difficult at all.

I did post in another thread:

For better clarity please read the BOE Act 1882 (link above), sect 3, 5, 8, 42, 43, 59. These are the main sections I use in dealing with tear off slips

3 is for the definition of a BOE.
5 is for - thats explained above.
8 is for Transfer - the non performance or prohibit of it.
42 & 43 are for natorial protest if required
59 that's self explanitry

The Creditor's Title becomes defective & any Accommodated Party does a favour.

Remember this narratuve from sect 59 BOE 1882.

The Creditor's Title becomes defective meaning the bill is paid & can no longer be claimed against - that's fraud.

Accommodated Party does a favour - meaning you will not necassarily know it but its been paid on your be1/2 therefore look at the payment on due course in sect59.

Now here's somat even more interesting, think about Trusts, & the sentement sect59 sub(1) payment in due course. Tursts what about the TRUSTEE? What is it that's so important when connected with a joint giro or an aledged debt? think representative, think fiduciary. Now what is the main question to ask when faced with a DP or Util Co? From time to time you will be told - under the Law & Proerty Act 1925 sect..... - is this about Trusts?

unlike the Trusts & Agreements info I have given I have been too generous, so please research & ask questions I am here to help as much as.....

Really is a peice of pi*ss.

That's all folks.

when constructing NOTICES is that in Equity (private)? whilst letters are in the Public?

LionsShare wrote:I was hopping OWtothelight would come back after perhaps researching what I am on about with an answer.

Yes OWtothelight is also the Benificiary.

Hello, sorry have been busy with other stuff. Update on my BGC:

I crossed out the amounts on the bill and wrote in the correct amount. Wrote on the top part a thank you for supplying a bill of exchange which I have accepted for value to discharge my debt, with my endorsement (or words to that effect) and of this form of payment is not acceptable please return it to me at the above address by.. and I gave them a week. I told them there was no late fees due as the account was in dispute and therefore there is an overpayment on the giro of £3.60 which they need to refund to me and cheque will be acceptable.

I put three stamps signed and dated on the front and one on the back, signed and dated the BGC and the back of it, no BOE added.

So far they have not sent it back, nor have they sent a refund, would be a bit of a triumph not to get a refund but I will be happy if they just don’t return it.

Have two new ones now to sort, one is a paying in slip the other I think is joint giro will post a pic later.