Bank Giro Credit

LionsShare wrote:SS evening,

sound like you have alot of sh*it to send to these people?

HIYA LS, its honestly wearing me out, as most of us here i have a job, i have a house that needs work doing, i have family i hardly see because if im not working im typing letters/ notices out and tbh the latter seems to be never ending and a waste of my time as it all falls on deaf ears, its just relentless to say the least

Will drop you a line soon to catch up

Be lucky
SS

LionsShare wrote:there is currently anecdotal evidence on telegram of people actually successfully purchasing brand new cars with home made prom notes. How do they do that?
Well.......
Actually they ask the 'head honcho' at a dealership would you accept my home made prom note for that car? If they say yes done deal apparently.

That's it exactly. Any trader is free to accept or decline any form of payment as they wish.

LionsShare wrote:If a PN is accepted then there may well be a 'debt' still owed, I can't get over or past the idea that there is still a debt to be paid because have the bank of england ever full filled thier promise to 'pay' on any of thier notes?

Consider this in an everyday context.  Say you sell something for £100 and the buyer offers you a home made PN for £100. Would you just take the bit of paper and be happy with it? Or would you consider payment made only when the buyer honours the PN?

Also consider if he paid by cheque, which is a BoE with a few extra legalities. Legally you are paid only when the cheque is honoured, not just by the fact of handing it over. For example if the cheque bounced, you presumably wouldn't be happy.

As to why Bank of England bank notes are legal tender but home made PNs are not, to challenge that you could track down the actual law that gives bank notes that status, look at the actual wording and see whether your PN falls within the given definition.

Listening to both sides of the argument,it still begs the question,
If these PNs are not valid / acceptable why are so many unreturned?

Without getting into the whole WeRe bank thing again,the case shown
above is typical of the response ( 'we believe it may be fraud ') thats why
we still have the PN.
I only used 1 WeRe bank cheque (CT) and got the same response , so
i contacted my county police and also City of London police (action fraud)
and both confirmed there was no investigation regarding fraud & WeRe bank.
As far as i am aware no official source would state fraud. So even if the cheques
were not accepted , why were they never returned. I guess we can all work
that one out.
Just to add ,the PNs WeRe bank holds clearly states on them they are redeemable
for the payment of 1 Re.

DI couldn't put it any better!

I think the whole argument of whether a PN is legal tender or not sort of comes to being irrelevant. As both DI & I have stated these PN's are not being returned, some of Michael Tellinger's evidence (if I remember correctly) showed his PN's had been traded & he actually had at least 1 back therefore must become securities?

I think its the whole effort of making a promise to pay that is important. There is more I could go on, but I think time moves on & surely by now we must endevour to move forward perhaps with this subject but with more or new info not keep going over the same ol' sh*it.

FF is correct, yes a cheque is a BOE (Drawer, Drawee, Payee) but is not payment or discharge only an instruction. I did give an example where in limited circumstances a cheque can be used as cash in another post.

this is example of where a cheque can be sort of used as cash
https://goodf.forumotion.com/t5592-bank-giro-credit#38824

(2699)

Just a suggestion, It appears very likely that these non returned PNs
are being securitised. and once again the banks etc are double dipping
at our expence.
Would it not be an idea that in order to circumvent that, we clearly state
that 'Should you fail to return his Promissary Note ,you are in full agreement
that you have accepted it for value,thus discharging my obligation.'

daveiron wrote:Just a suggestion, It appears very likely that these non returned PNs are being securitised. and once again the banks etc are double dipping at our expence.

Agree but there is no way I can think of ATM to prove that. The fact these PNs are not returned is more than enugh for me to say YES they are double dipping.

daveiron wrote:Would it not be an idea that in order to circumvent that, we clearly state that 'Should you fail to return his Promissary Note ,you are in full agreement that you have accepted it for value,thus discharging my obligation.'

An excellent idea.

As part of my T&Cs I state: 'if this note is returned dishonored through non acceptance under BOE 1882 sect42/43 my obligation to full fill is discharged.

LionsShare wrote:I was hopping OWtothelight would come back after perhaps researching what I am on about with an answer.

Yes OWtothelight is also the Benificiary.

Sorry, I am just a bit lost in it all, I am reading and taking it in a bit at a time, but I have a lot of different issues going on all at once and I don't have big chunks of time to dedicate to this, to organise and correlate my notes and I am going in circles. Hopefully getting there a little at a time.

I am just reading through all of these posts again and there is so much info I don't know where to start, ma poor wee brain Thank you, for all of the information and help, it is very appreciated, I will get to it at some point, hopefully in some sort of semblance and report back.

OWtothelight wrote:

LionsShare wrote:I was hopping OWtothelight would come back after perhaps researching what I am on about with an answer.

Yes OWtothelight is also the Benificiary.

Sorry, I am just a bit lost in it all,  I am reading and taking it in a bit at a time, but I have a lot of different issues going on all at once and I don't have big chunks of time to dedicate to this, to organise and correlate my notes and I am going in circles. Hopefully getting there a little at a time.

I am just reading through all of these posts again and there is so much info I don't know where to start, ma poor wee brain  Thank you, for all of the information and help, it is very appreciated, I will get to it at some point, hopefully in some sort of semblance and report back.

https://goodf.forumotion.com/t5800-fiduciary-trusts-agreement#39531
This may help get you to the 'short cut' of what you need to know about how its all a Trust.  LS

[quote="LionsShare"]well done for getting  what you have!

the wording you have state you have used is different to what I use. However the fact you have stated what you have should be enough to 'sort' it. Remember THEY will not send it back & probably still cliam its still 'outstanding' (meaning its accepted), if they do that then come back & will endevour to help further.

Update on VF, I heard nothing of months, and assumed they had accepted the payment, I had stated no emails, text or phone calls only mail. I received a few emails for a disputed amount that I ignored as spam. Then I stated getting emails from a DCA, that I ignored as spam, a letter from them RTS, a letter form VF, referring my debt, stating my account that I had already closed, was now closed. I called them and they refused communicate as I did not have a pin or memorable word for my account. On this basis of not being able to confirm if the letter was genuine and as the payment had not been returned, I RTS the letter.

I contacted the ICO to check on data breach for passing on my details and ignoring my requests of no emails, they said to raised a complaint and if not response or not happy, complain to ICO.

I wrote a complaint (they can not take proceedings of any sort if an account is in dispute) letter, stating that they had breeched my data many times, both with their emails and in passing on my details without my explicit written consent. That they had charged me a fee when my account was in dispute, failed to verify if the threatening letter was valid or purely an attempt by a scammer to defraud me. That I retuned the letters to sender as spam/ scam, and deleted the emails as the same, as a company claiming to be VF and a DCA claiming I owed them money, as if VF had sent these or passed on my data, they would have been in breech of GDPR, had not returned my payment so I had assumed it was accepted, they were attempting to penalise me for a disputed fee, if the DCA letters were genuine then they were threatening me with fine of inflated fees without first offering remedy, and forfeiture of credit score damage, and threats of fine and forfeiture before a case goes to court are illegal and void, so any assumed contract if it was from VP, which I could not confirm, was void. Or generally words to that effect.

They wrote back, saying basically, its not their fault, we wrote to you, (months later), we didn't do anything wrong, its your fault, we are superior and cant be wrong, you are wrong, you small person. However, we will not charge you a final bill and have withdrawn the instruction to the DCA.

So likely they accepted the BGC, then tried to charge me anyway, and possibly the only reason they wrote off the bill is the risk of fine from ICO for breach of data.

What is 'VF' unless I've missed somat?

well done for getting as far as you have. What you are finding out is what most of here on goodf have seen in the past & all ready know.

Going forward I would say judging by the way you are going about things & my experience is, carry on as is.

For me the proof of acceptance is the lack of accepted evidence, if you see what I mean? These scum try all sorts to extort out of us & the lack of proper response in not accepting is the acceptance. So yes it sounds like your JGBC has been accepted, again well done.

LS

flyingfish wrote:

LionsShare wrote:there is currently anecdotal evidence on telegram of people actually successfully purchasing brand new cars with home made prom notes. How do they do that?
Well.......
Actually they ask the 'head honcho' at a dealership would you accept my home made prom note for that car? If they say yes done deal apparently.

That's it exactly. Any trader is free to accept or decline any form of payment as they wish.

But when they refuse a proper instrument its a done deal there was no debt sect42/43 BOE Act 1882.

LionsShare

Update on M&S BGC,

I have an interesting array of correspondence from M&S. The first BGC i just signed, AFV and sent in and they returned it stating that its a paying in slip.

Second one I endorsed, gave them a time to return it, quoted Bills of exchange and settlement of debt if refused. Heard nothing and my account had not changed. Contacted them through chat facility (gladI did this as it gave a record that i took screen shots of), and asked them if they had received, my payment. They siaid yes but as it's a form of payment they don't usually deal with it may take longer to process it than normal and said if it was accepted it would show on my account. I queried the late payment fee and they said none would be charged.

I heard nothing, received my next bill with a late payment fee and a threat of damage to my credit score. I sent minimum payment and raised a compliant about the delay, fee and threats and sharing of my data without my consent.

I got replies form two departments, one stating that they could not trace my payment at my bank and to ask them to do a search for this.

Another stating that my payment was late (it wasn't) and that they do not accept BOE as a method of payment. I will upload my response and the last reply I got from them as its easier than trying ot explain.

They have admitted it is a form of payment and in their last letter they stated that it was a BOE and quoted Consumer credit act, but i endorsed it so its a statutory instrument, where to go from here?

https://servimg.com/view/20432130/4

OK give me some time just reading your 1st pick, & it will NOT (I think) appear through your bank payments because its not tied directly to your bank account but goes through some other banking method I'm not familiar with as I don't have full disclosure.

Now readnig the 2nd

1st paragraph - write back & demand your credit file is corrected

They have stated they have received the BOE so what's the problem thier end as they issued it, didn't they?

without the BOE act 1882 it would be difficult to trade but not impossible. Credit cards etc is not really my area but you could try asking others here about such things.

For the outstanding balance if they sent you the 1st joint giro then write back & ask for another to clear the debt.

Regarding GDPR it might be worth writing to them to ask specifically how they have not breached GDPR - get them to show the legislation properly?

My response to m&S, including raiding issues with their failed promises and data protection:

Please also let me know how I am to pay you ff you do not accept promissory notes or bills of exchange
as payment. If you do accept these forms, please credit my account with the payment sent to you
on 13th August 2022, and refund any subsequent payments made by bills of exchange that would
put my account in overpayment.

Please respee in writing to the
Above address

LionsShare wrote:OK give me some time just reading your 1st pick, & it will NOT (I think) appear through your bank payments because its not tied directly to your bank account but goes through some other banking method I'm not familiar with as I don't have full disclosure.

Now readnig the 2nd

Its a credit card with m&S bank so the statements payments appear in that account.

LionsShare wrote:What is 'VF' unless I've missed somat?

Vodafone.

I've edited your post & added '[/quote]' this sets up the quote properly LS

VF is Vodafone.
I had an email form M&S stating the do not accept bills of exchange, cant upload it.

LionsShare wrote:1st paragraph - write back & demand your credit file is corrected

They have stated they have received the BOE so what's the problem thier end as they issued it, didn't they?

without the BOE act 1882 it would be difficult to trade but not impossible. Credit cards etc is not really my area but you could try asking others here about such things.

For the outstanding balance if they sent you the 1st joint giro then write back & ask for another to clear the debt.

Regarding GDPR it might be worth writing to them to ask specifically how they have not breached GDPR - get them to show the legislation properly?

To sumup:

They stated that they received my payment and BOE is a form of payment and would take time to process
They sent me a letter stating the payment had not been applied to my account and asked me to get my bank to do a credit chase, they did not state the could not locate it, just it had not been applied. 
They have refunded the late payment fee but not amended my credit score.
They have stated they do not accept BOE as a method of payment.

I will pull them up on GDPR and refer to ICO and the wording is slippery regarding that they can speak to collections agents, but they cant pass on my details without my consent and this is another threat without base, as I have not defaulted or challenged their agreement.

Without reason they are threatening me with court, rather than simply addressing the details of this form of payment. I am continuing to make my minimum payments so have not breached my agreement in any way.

LionsShare wrote:

flyingfish wrote:
That's it exactly. Any trader is free to accept or decline any form of payment as they wish.

But when they refuse a proper instrument its a done deal there was no debt sect42/43 BOE Act 1882.

Nothing in the Act obliges anyone to accept a BOE as a form of payment. Would you like to try it in Tesco? Present a home made PN at the checkout and when they don't accept it you walk out with no need to pay for your groceries. In more moderate terms, surely you must have dealt with business who don't accept cheques, or don't take credit cards, or even don't accept cash.  It's their choice entirely and forms part of their offer for sale, and any subsequent contract if you take them up.

The references in the act to "presenting" a BOE refer to presenting it to get the promised payment. In cheque terms that would be banking or cashing the cheque.

The references in the act to "presenting" a BOE refer to presenting it to get the promised payment. In cheque terms that would be banking or cashing the cheque.

So getting it stamped and sent by the bank is the proper way to use it, but getting the bank to process it this way may prove difficult. The back of the statement, suggests this is the proper way, no mention of adding payment, fill in the form, get the bank to stamp it and send it in. 

The front has a black box to be filled with either amount stated on the cheque, underneath stating cheque acceptable, an area to sign and date underneath this, as you would a cheque, then under this there is a paying in slip area, presumably you fill in the cheque part of the paying in slip, with the amount you put in the black box? 

Th back of the statement also states that if payment is made using the wrong sort code, account number or reference information, there may be a delay before the account is credited or it may not be received at all. So does the endorsement method in this case invalidate the credit by writing over the reference number with our NI number?

LionsShare wrote:1st paragraph - write back & demand your credit file is corrected

They have stated they have received the BOE so what's the problem thier end as they issued it, didn't they?

without the BOE act 1882 it would be difficult to trade but not impossible. Credit cards etc is not really my area but you could try asking others here about such things.

For the outstanding balance if they sent you the 1st joint giro then write back & ask for another to clear the debt.

Regarding GDPR it might be worth writing to them to ask specifically how they have not breached GDPR - get them to show the legislation properly?

They did say they would correct my creit score,
I get a BGC every month with my statement, and ay with a cheque - a BOE. So they do accept BOE. 
Will pul them up on GDPR, thanks