Van Lynn Developments ....... reply to DOA argument Urgently required please .

The Van Lynn Developments LTD v Pelias Construction Co

I have tried to read and work out the parts of the case which would deem this a non argument by the DCA,s in reply to the
"Deed of assignment " Van Lynn Dev argument ,

This is now in court and adjourned as DCA reckoned my defence was not received , I have received a reply to my defence and this is one of the arguments cited .

I could really do with some help.
I can only access parts of the links to the case and do not have a clue what goes where or means what in relation to other parts ...
I'm loosing the will

It requires proof that they own the alleged debt. If you dont get to see it
whats to stop another chancer coming along and making the same claim.

See (Van Lynn Developments v Pelias Construction Co Ltd 1968.[3] All ER 824) Where Lord Denning M.R. said "the debtor is entitled to view the sale agreement to ensure that the assignee can give him good discharge under the contract"

Also; [Webster v Ridgeway (2009) ] - Where a debtor is entitled to see a redacted version.

Fraud Act 2006 sec 3
Fraud by failing to disclose information

A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a)dishonestly fails to disclose to another person information which he is under a legal duty to disclose, and

(b)intends, by failing to disclose the information—

(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

Thankyou daveiron ,

Basically as part of my evidence I have used old letters from dca's chasing the same alleged debt as them ,
They backed off that at the time when I questioned them about their fake paperwork ,
So I used this as an example of how important the DOA is,
in ref the Law of property act Denning etc

This is part of their rubbishing that ,

Hopefully attatched

It reads very clearly to me,others may read it differently,
What both of those case laws state you are entitled to see it.
Makes you wonder why they are reluctant to produce even a redacted
copy.

What would happen if you just took their word for it. Then a couple of
years later some other lowlife makes the same claim .

I am also wondering if I can use or cite The doctrine of privity , Which I have read Tiggy speak about in an old post ,
Does anyone have any knowledge of how to compose this in to a letter please ?

That is exactly what happened around 7 yrs ago , which what I used as part of my defence the final chaser was them , So they are saying that's nothing to do with this even though it shows a pattern also,

I need a reply good enough to make them drop it but not to play my cards as it where , I'm not sure why they are carrying on as most of their documentation I have the template letters to without my details in for every alleged debt they feel exists ,

I have a copy of this for every fake notice of assignment and default notice they have sent me ..
Obv the tea boy printed off my SAR REQ .
It's not just me is it ?[url=https://servimg.com/view/20000828/31][i

got to just step in on this and get some clarification

you said that another DCA were chasing you for this ? were they assigned the account or just acting for the OC ?

have Lowell refused to provide a copy of the D of A ? If so what are their reasons for doing so ?

Evening ,
Sorry I may of confused you ..
Part of my evidence bundle was an old alleged debt they chased that others had also clsimed they had a right to ...
They state it is a confidential document etc I'll see if I can upload..

Sorry this part is overload..
I feel over my head at the moment ..
I've spent all afternoon trying to put together reply letter to no avail ..
I have 2 weeks to the hearing ..
The one thing I have noticed thisafternoon is in an sar to the Dca there is no NOD ..
Yet they quote one in witness statement ..
But it is termed STATEMENT of default ..

Contrary to their statement I did not do a CPR

Sorry this part is overload..
I feel over my head at the moment ..
I've spent all afternoon trying to put together reply letter to no avail ..
I have 2 weeks to the hearing ..
The one thing I have noticed thisafternoon is in an sar to the OC there is no NOD ..
Yet they quote one in witness statement ..
But it is termed STATEMENT of default ..

yes i get the feeling you are unsure and all over the place.

cant quite understand what is going on here

are we talking deed of assignment or default notice ? or are we now including both ?

i seem to think you have been to a hearing already ? and what is it the you are so worried about exactly ? what their statement says ?

ok i get that there was no default notice in the SAR and i think that the claimant are saying they have provided a copy of a default notice ? well there should be ' exhibits' attached to their witness statement one of which should be the default notice to evidence what their WS says ?
did they plead that a default notice was sent in their particulars of claim ?
yes there is a need to provide a copy of the deed of assignment to evidence that they have the lawful right to sue as claimed.

with great respect you need to slow down and actually READ their WS and then pull it apart.

just read quickly again

why do you need to send them a reply letter ?

if there is a hearing in 2 weeks then there should be court directions for that hearing, what do the court directions say ? what do you need to do ? what has the court directed you to do ? and as is usual what is the deadline for you to comply with the court directions.

Okay so hearing was adjourned because they said they had not received my defence ..
I posted this in my  signiature blanked out .. post..
I sent it to reg address they used bull excuse of po box adress which was in court papers ..
That cost me £300 fees for "wasiting their time ..
So judge said talk to each other ..
The letter I have received is their reply to my defence ..
You may need a nosey at the signiature blanked out post ..

So as they have sent me a letter stating ..
What an idiot I am ..
Suggesting they are acting fraudulently using template letters purporting to be the OC  ..
But want to come to an agreement amicably but still view the alleged debt as lawfully owed ..
I feel I need to reply to aplease the judge but also to further defend without showing my hand ..
Really want to keep this out of   court ..

i am trying really hard but just dont get where we are with this or what is going on.

they said they didnt get your defence ? Who said they didnt get your defence ? a defence is sent to the court who then pass it on to the claimant ?

a defence is not sent directly to the claimant so how did you end up at a hearing ?

The court stated that I had to send my defence bundle ( suppiorting documents) to the Claimant .
The defence itself was sent to the court ..
The claimant said they had not received it at the last hearing although there was actually no need for them not to have ,I sent recorded and have proof it was received 15 days before hearing .. but I sent it to the registered office mot po box as I needed it signed for .
The court ordered costs of £270 for wasting time because of ...


I

Okay so I have an hour to concentrate solely on this ,

I basically got the letter of claim ,
I responded with a cca req,

The solicitors said it had taken 7 days to reach them 3 days after the date on the 30 days letter,
The exact date they applied to the court on the very same day they said they received it ,
Even though I put a complaint in at the time as soon as the Claim came it was dated 2 days after the date they say the cca req landed with them but was applied for on the same day,

The solicitor stated in a prev letter that they upheld my complaint and could of considered the CCA req before issuing the claim , but obv did not .

Roll forward ,
Mediation was not an option according to the court ,
Order that  they where to produce documents ,

1.agreements of both accounts referred to in particulars of claim.
2.full breakdown of how accounts been calculated
3.Copy statements in support of the breakdown provided pursuant to (2) above
4.A copy of the notice of assignment .

The judge obviously felt this had been met even though the signature on the agreement of one was redacted .
And I'm not sure they provided the rest to be honest ..

The reason being I have like a complete idiot mixed it all up ,
I only have a small work area and have to put it all away each time ,
I think my o/h may of been routing too.

So the hearing date came I was working from home and thought it was 2pm , it was 11am via teams so had to get ready quick couldn't get teams to work until the last second ,
I honestly didn't get a word in edgeways ,
When the Solicitor said they had not received my evidence I thought it was over as I had proof of post and receipt ,
The solicitor was very fast to point out I had sent it to "their client" NOT the joint address of both and it was addressed to the solicitors not the client .

The Judge sided with him and said I could of asked " the witness for an email address" Obv I'd never had contact with this witness if indeed they exist or are still employed by the DP .
And the court directives stated the PO BOX address also , I had pointed out it could not be signed for at a PO BOX ,
But no ! £300 lighter and the DP has another 4 weeks to build their case .

So they received my evidence inc a letter to the judge about their use of template letters purporting to be the assignee , and included previous attempts to both myself and a now deceased friend ,

Their response is  roughly,
trying to rubbish a transcript of a call I received in an SAR stating that I had read it incorrectly , that what I proposed they had said was actually me speaking this was about the fact the claim was issued even though they where in receipt of a CCA req,
secondly , That the documents where not fraudulent nor the agreement redacted ( they where)  ,
Thirdly how dare I suggest the hyenas are acting dishonestly , don't think they liked that I had 2 proofs from different closed accounts of myself and a friend , on questioning their ... hello we are a set of ..... letters and here's a letter pretending to be the OC too just to back us up now pay...
And lastly the Van etc etc ... no need for DOA as it is confidential ,

Goes on to say think I am liable for balance , however  willing to reach amicable resolution ,
willing to attend mediation if I am agreeable , they suggest I contact small claims to register for mediation and contact them once done ,
Very lastly they reserve right to produce the letter at hearing ,

Now interestingly on the last ..
IT IS  ORDERED THAT
2.  STATES  Any further documents the defendant wishes to rely upon shall be sent to the claimants solicitors .

Which I thought odd ...
So that's it less than 2 weeks and all I have is a muddle of paper work and not a clue.

"I" know  they should of honoured the CCA
they redacted the documents
they use template letters to defraud ,

What they did not mention in their reply was a transcript where they clearly ask the following ..
Generic notes : we need to know if the default notice is available ? if yes , please provide a copy . if no , please confirm this . if a copy is not available , then please provide copy/screenshot of contemporaneous system note of creation/service . if none of these are available please confirm this.

I have typed the above word to word .

So this clearly demonstrates they are willing to behave fraudulently and should cast doubt on any of the documents they rely upon

wow ! i am sort of with it

it really does depend upon their particulars of claim ( what they are claiming ) and have they provided evidence to support those particulars.

obviously an agreement which you say has been redacted ?
did they plead default ? and state a default notice was sent to you ?
they obviously plead assignment ?

BUT : now it appears there were 2 accounts !! did they amalgamate them ? did they plead for each separate account ?

i am still confused because each time i read something the whole thing changes

DONT get involved calling them frauds or anything else ( though they are ) concentrate PURELY on what the claim says and if they have evidenced their claim.

IF they haven't then state they havent and back it up with properly written reasons and evidence.

READ carefully their particulars on the claim form then read their witness statement as this is what they are telling the court/judge IF you believe it isn't correct then say so with evidence in a written witness statement of your own.

you have virtually no time left to sort this out so you need to realise the best way to look at it start with their claim and evidence and WS. then counter them. you see 2 accounts should have 2 agreements, 2 defaults, 2 notices etc etc one for each.

how much is this for roughly and what dates were the agreement(s) started.

Does anyone have a link to, or a full copy of Van Lynn? If it's going to be used as a point of argument, you will need to rebut their claim that the comments you rely on were obiter. That's going to be difficult without reading the whole case.

Webster may be this case Webster & Ors v Governors of the Ridgeway Foundation School [2009] EWHC 1140 (QB) (21 May 2009) but that doesn't seem to be about debt at all, although it does touch on whether redacted documents can be acceptable. If that's the wrong case then maybe someone can link to the correct one.

So I have just had another dig through my massive box of redundant papers ,
I have just found the papers for the order to produce them ,
Luckily I bull dog clipped them and kept them in the original envelope ,
There is the following..

1. letter from DPA with supposed NOA although does not say so on it from OC1( NO LOGO)
2. Double sided statement relating to OC1
3. 5 page Agreement with a dodgy signature (the same as I have seen mentioned on here before.)
4.some letter from DPA .
5.  Letter from OC2(No logo) stating alleged debt sold presume supposed to be NOA although does not state it ,
Has old acc number on and new DPA ref on , purporting to be from OC but how would they know what ref the DPA is going to use ?
6.Letter NOD  OC2 3 pages ,
7.Statement of default OC2
8. Statements 5 pages of not a lot ,
9.copy agreement *Signature redacted * from OC2 .
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