ccj and debt do you need to pay

by capatain scarlet Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:00 pm

Hi
I need some advice please, it regards my sister in law, her husband died 2 years ago and she is going to sell her house to her daughter, she was shocked when she found out their was 2 ccj against her house, when she asked why the bank told her it was from 2 loans one in 2009 and the other in 2011,this was from her dead husband own account and not a joint account, can she get the 2 ccj against her house taken of,and is she liable for her dead husband dedt, i thank you in advance,many thanks

by **daveiron** Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:48 pm

Had a quick around and found this;

If you have a CCJ registered against a company or individual the legal time frame to recover your monies is 6 years. If a successful recovery has not been effected within this period then you will have to go back to the courts to obtain special permissions to continue the enforcement process.

The debts are irrecoverable from the family, provided none of them are on any of the contracts or mentioned as guarantor. It's not their debt.
This is not applicable to marital debts, which are recoverable from the surviving spouse.

On another note ,has she thought about putting the house in trust for daughter instead
of selling it to her ,I may be wrong but i think this will avoid stamp duty .
Maybe worth looking into.

by capatain scarlet Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:04 pm

Hi Daveiron, i will suggest the trust, but the ccj at the moment is taking up the stress with her,she is not a strong woman, so would it be possible for the 2 ccj to be removed if so what would be the process, she did ask the bank for details of the loans but the bank wont disuse it with her as it is data protection,many thanks

by **daveiron** Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:11 pm

Is anyone chasing these debts ? Is there any charge on the house in
relation to the debts.
I have continued looking around and the concensus is the creditor will
need to apply to the court to start recovery action ,its possible that
because they have not tried to collect all this time its unlikely permission
would be granted.

Is she linked in any way to the debts or were they solely in his name ?

by capatain scarlet Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:17 pm

the debt was solely in his name , the house was in joint names but the debt was in his name only, when she asked the bank for details regarding the debt they would not disuse the mater as it was data protection, no one is chasing the debt, but she only found this out only last week many thanks

by **daveiron** Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:29 pm

Sorry i may have misread ,when were the ccjs issued ?

by capatain scarlet Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:30 pm

one was in 2009 and the other one was in 2011, many thanks

by **daveiron** Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:51 pm

Ok thats good, If i were her i would not mention anything to the bank.
otherwise they may try to start collection.

If there is no charge on the house ,it would be a good idea to look into
putting it into trust,as then she would only hold legal title as a trustee
but not equitable title. that should if i am not mistaken make it untouchable.

by capatain scarlet Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:55 pm

Many thanks for all your help, the only thing is the bank say their is a ccj against the house thats on the record, could that be removed, i do thank you for all your help,

by **daveiron** Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:25 pm

CCJs cannot be removed, however just to throw in a few thoughts,
You could contact land registry to see if they have a charge listed on
the house. if they do you perhaps could consider an offer to the bank of 10%
in full settlement.you may be suprised what they may accept. But of course
do not give them any idea she is thinking of selling ,just let them believe she
intends to remain there for the rest of her life.

Failing all of that ,there is also the NoCA route where she would require the
redemption of the original agreement (there is no way they will have it).

See if any others have ideas on this.

by capatain scarlet Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:50 am

Many thanks for all your help

by flyingfish Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:39 pm

capatain scarlet wrote:.. the bank say their is a ccj against the house thats on the record ..

I don't see what that could mean, a CCJ is registered against a person not against property. I can only assume it's a charge on the house. However it would be worth you doing your own check on the land registry as DI suggested. Maybe the two loans were secured?

by capatain scarlet Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:49 pm

Hi Many thanks for your reply, yes that is the best way, i only got told of this situation a couple of days ago, and as you can imagine my sister in law was very upset, i will suggest this course of action to her, and hopefully get a clear picture of the situation,

by waylander62 Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:51 pm

not read all of this in depth but....

you mention CCJ's ? county court judgments which are nothing to do with your sister in law at all however you mention about selling a house ?

again CCJ's have nothing to do with your sister in law selling the property she is not responsible for the CCJ's the only thing she needs to worry about is if the creditors have also applied and successfully obtained charging orders against the property

even then she should be ok but a little more complicated.

you need to get some facts really but there seems to be very little the creditors can do, dont leave it to chance get some facts posted on here and i am sure we can get this sorted out

by capatain scarlet Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:16 pm

Hi Many thanks for your reply, i understand what you say, when i spoke to her last week, she was very very upset all i can make out at the moment is back in 2009 and 2011 2 ccjs were issued out, this came to light when she made enquiries regarding selling her house, that is what the bank told her that 2 ccjs were issued in those dates, her husband died a couple of years ago, when she asked the bank for more details they told her they could not because of data protection?,what ever it is it is not a joint account, i am waiting to speak to her hopefully tomorrow, she is a timid person and dose not like conflict, again many thanks for your reply

by waylander62 Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:19 pm

i understand try and get the information as soon as you can because she will get conflict if you dont try and stop it

by capatain scarlet Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:05 pm

Will do, Many thanks

by capatain scarlet Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:38 pm

Hi Just a update, one of the ccj was for 12 thousand 2011, 6k was paid of and was secured agenised the house, dont know about the other one yet, she is in a terrible state. any hope would be greatly appreciated ,many thanks

by **daveiron** Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:13 pm

Done a bit of digging around .this may be usefull ;

If the deceased person has left a property which is jointly owned, it will be owned in one of two ways.
Tenants in common

Each owner will have a defined share of the property. The shares will usually be set out in the deeds. When one owner dies, their share does not automatically pass to the surviving owner. The deceased person’s share will form part of the estate and will be available to pay creditors and those named in any will. It maybe possible for the co-owner to offer to pay the debts to avoid the property being sold. If you need to negotiate, contact us for advice.
Joint tenant

Each owner owns all of the property. When one owner dies, their share does automatically pass to the other owner. It does not form part of the estate available to creditors. Therefore, the property is not taken into account when working out whether the estate is insolvent.

If you are unsure how the property is owned then you should contact land registry to find property ownership information, there is a cost of £3.

link to info;https://www.nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/debts-after-death-ew/

by capatain scarlet Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:32 pm

Hi mate that is really a great idea and worth a try, i will suggest it to her hopefully she will do it, again many many thanks i really appreciate all your efforts,

by Sharpysparky Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:57 pm

daveiron wrote:Done a bit of digging around .this may be usefull ;

If the deceased person has left a property which is jointly owned, it will be owned in one of two ways.
Tenants in common

Each owner will have a defined share of the property. The shares will usually be set out in the deeds. When one owner dies, their share does not automatically pass to the surviving owner. The deceased person’s share will form part of the estate and will be available to pay creditors and those named in any will. It maybe possible for the co-owner to offer to pay the debts to avoid the property being sold. If you need to negotiate, contact us for advice.
Joint tenant

Each owner owns all of the property. When one owner dies, their share does automatically pass to the other owner. It does not form part of the estate available to creditors. Therefore, the property is not taken into account when working out whether the estate is insolvent.

If you are unsure how the property is owned then you should contact land registry to find property ownership information, there is a cost of £3.

link to info;https://www.nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/debts-after-death-ew/

Well done DI, hopefully its the latter for this poor lady and the scum bags get a big fat zero out of it

by flyingfish Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:02 pm

For a married couple they are almost certain to be joint tenants. There would have to be some special reason for them to have bought on any other basis.

What I don't know is how things stand if there is a charging order on the property. My gut feeling is that it would still apply but I am not certain. No am I certain whether it times out, I suspect not.

You also mention "secured against the house", does that mean these were secured loans, meaning a charge was put on the property at the time the loan was taken out? Or unsecured loans but the creditor managed to get a charge on he property as enforcement of the CCJ?

You really need to see that title.

by capatain scarlet Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:25 pm

Hi mate, i have been trying to make sense of it myself, up to this point her dead husband took out a 12k loan back in 2011, and i have found out he was paying it of right up to his death in 2020, but his wife knew nothing about it and the loan was takin out on his own personnel credit card. so it was his card only, now i am assuming he got the loan secured to the house, the bank are being a bit secretive over details as they are using the date act, so i have given her the advice i have been given on this site, that really cheered her up, and i have asked her to do a credit check on the house, also i have asked if i could talk to the bank on her behalf, as she is not good with these people, at the moment it is just a waiting game to see what the bank will do next, hopfully i will be able to intervein and get more details, again i am very grateful for your and others help with this materr.

by flyingfish Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:20 pm

Interesting, if the house was in joint names I don't think a secured loan could be taken out without both joint owners signing the security.

Get the title. You can do this yourself. In fact anyone can do this, they are public documents except for the fact that they charge a fee.

by capatain scarlet Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:06 pm

Hi flyingfish, i will go with that mate, can not stand waiting around, again many many thanks for all the effort and time you have done on this.

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