debt settlement payoff

Thanks everyone, I haven’t sent the letter to Ward Hadaway yet so I will get a draft done but won’t send it, I’ll post again tomorrow.
The claim form is signed in print ‘ Ward Hadaway Solicitors’, thanks again.

Scarlet Tiger wrote:Thanks everyone, I haven’t sent the letter to Ward Hadaway yet so I will get a draft done but won’t send it, I’ll post again tomorrow.
The claim form is signed in print ‘ Ward Hadaway Solicitors’, thanks again.

great then we will also hit them with that breach of CPR rules i think we should now entitle this:  request for further information under CPR part 18, being solicitors they will know what it means.

i would really like to know what the content of their particulars of claim are ? can you type what is written in that box ? blank out any account numbers and amounts of course. If you are not happy to post it up then please send it in a DM.

if we are going to do a part 18 request we may as well make it a good one.

i'll just leave this here also:

Practice direction 22  3.9 A legal representative who signs a statement of truth must sign in their own name and not that of their firm or employer.  

Content of Particulars of Claim:

The Claimant is a statutory water and sewerage undertaker pursuant to the Water Industry Act 1991 (the Act). The Claimant claims the sum of £—— for unpaid water and/or sewerage charges payable under s.142-144 of the Act and the Claimants Charges Scheme. The unpaid sum of £—— is for water and/or sewerage services provided to the Defendant(s) at ( My Address ) for 01/04/2019 to 31/03/2024. The Claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 01/04/2023 to 02/01/2024 of £—— and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £— AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS (1) the principle sum of £—— (2) Interest under s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 of £—— and (3) Continuing interest on (1) above from 02-Jan-2024 to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £——.

Haven’t drafted anything yet, still formulating and seeing what you come with,
Thanks waylander62!!

Maybe going over old ground but I think it's worth checking. Are the dates different from those of the other account, the one that was settled? No overlap. Or are the two accounts for separate properties.

Also if not already stated, is the claim less than £10k, so can be handled as a Small Claim?

flyingfish wrote:Maybe going over old ground but I think it's worth checking. Are the dates different from those of the other account, the one that was settled? No overlap. Or are the two accounts for separate properties.

Also if not already stated, is the claim less than £10k, so can be handled as a Small Claim?

If I understand your question right the account A was for different dates (a set of earlier unpaid bills, I had a payment plan going for account A and then Southern Water sent another bill for later years, UKSearch put this into another account B, no not for separate properties.

The claim is less than £10K.

One other thing is I sent in a Data Access request from both Southern Water and UKSearch after the Letter Before Court Action, Southern Water responded but UKSearch did not.

Here’s my 1st rough draft

Dear Ward

I have received a Claim Form ———— from Ward Hadaway date ----

I have been attempting to settle all accounts with Southern Water since June 2023.

After receiving a Letter Before Court Action from Ward Hadaway, I again attempted to settle all accounts contacting litigation agents UKSearch.

UKSearch turned down my offer for full settlement but made me an offer for account A that I accepted and duly paid (date). In the same letter (date)I was asked to make a settlement offer for account B which I did, this was to be refered to Southern Water.

However I received no response for the offer made (date) from either Southern Water or UKSearch.
I then received a Claim Form —— from Ward Hadaway for account B.

I would like to know why I have been sent a Claim Form when I adhered to the Letter Before Court Action as requested.
I have had no reply from either UKSearch or Southern Water and was at the time of issuance of your Claim still awaiting response to my offer.

there is not much in the particulars that you can ask really.

you have made a good start there to be fair,

i would in this instance entitle your letter

lay it out like this:
Claim number xyz
in the county court business centre Northampton


Southern water claimant


v

Scarlet Tiger defendant

DEFENDANTS REQUEST OF CLAIMANT
MADE ON 24th January 2024 PURSUANT TO CPR PART 18
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

it has reset my layout after sending it


claim number top right

in the CC bus. centre top left



southern water centre claimant on RHS

v centre

your name centre defendant RHS

Title centre

So that’s:

                                                                                   
In the county court business centre Northampton                           Claim no. xyz

             Southern water claimant           v              Scarlet Tiger defendant

                          DEFENDANTS REQUEST OF CLAIMANT
                MADE ON 24th January 2024 PURSUANT TO CPR PART 18
                FOR FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

Dear Ward

I have received a Claim Form ———— from Ward Hadaway date ----

I have been attempting to settle all accounts with Southern Water since June 2023.

After receiving a Letter Before Court Action from Ward Hadaway, I again attempted to settle all accounts contacting litigation agents UKSearch.

UKSearch turned down my offer for full settlement but made me an offer for account A that I accepted and duly paid (date). In the same letter (date)I was asked to make a settlement offer for account B which I did, this was to be refered to Southern Water.

However I received no response for the offer made (date) from either Southern Water or UKSearch.
I then received a Claim Form —— from Ward Hadaway for account B.

I would like to know why I have been sent a Claim Form when I adhered to the Letter Before Court Action as requested.
I have had no reply from either UKSearch or Southern Water and was at the time of issuance of your Claim still awaiting response to my offer.

Yours sincerley,

Scarlet T

almost

southern water should be centred with claimant on RHS the V should be centred say 2 returns on keyboard then 2 further returns on keyboard your name centred with defendant to RHS

if you lay this out correct ward will see it as a legally written document

So that’s:

                                                                                   
In the county court business centre Northampton                           Claim no. xyz

                                     Southern Water                                Claimant  

                                               v  

                                       Scarlet Tiger                                  Defendant


                         DEFENDANTS REQUEST OF CLAIMANT
               MADE ON 24th January 2024 PURSUANT TO CPR PART 18
               FOR FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

Dear Ward

I have received a Claim Form ———— from Ward Hadaway date ----

I have been attempting to settle all accounts with Southern Water since June 2023.

After receiving a Letter Before Court Action from Ward Hadaway, I again attempted to settle all accounts contacting litigation agents UKSearch.

UKSearch turned down my offer for full settlement but made me an offer for account A that I accepted and duly paid (date). In the same letter (date)I was asked to make a settlement offer for account B which I did, this was to be refered to Southern Water.

However I received no response for the offer made (date) from either Southern Water or UKSearch.
I then received a Claim Form —— from Ward Hadaway for account B.

I would like to know why I have been sent a Claim Form when I adhered to the Letter Before Court Action as requested.
I have had no reply from either UKSearch or Southern Water and was at the time of issuance of your Claim still awaiting response to my offer.

Yours sincerley,

Scarlet T

have read through what you have written which needs amending to be honest

in my opinion and it is only an opinion,

i would start the whole thing with the letter before action as that is the main issue, i believe that the LBA stated you should contact UK search ? is this correct ? and the LBA only refers to account B doesn't it. also need to know the date of the LBA and the date you contacted UK search as it needs to be before the 'expiry' date given to you on the LBA.

this is a request for further information so... we need to ask awkward questions you should see as we go along where this is heading.

[
i would start the whole thing with the letter before action as that is the main issue, i believe that the LBA stated you should contact UK search ? is this correct ? and the LBA only refers to account B doesn't it. also need to know the date of the LBA and the date you contacted UK search as it needs to be before the 'expiry' date given to you on the LBA.

this is a request for further information so... we need to ask awkward questions you should see as we go along where this is heading. [/quote]

Yes, it states to make full payment or suitable repayment arrangements with UKSearch in 30 days, it says it is UKSearch discretion as to whether any payment proposal will be accepted. Dated 03 Nov 2023. Referring to account B.

I sent a full and final offer to Southern Water on 03 Nov 2023 for all accounts.
I wrote to UKSearch 06 Nov 2023 saying I had made an offer to Southern Water and to make Hadaway aware of this.
15 Nov 2023 I made a data access request to UKSearch (though I didn’t photocopy the letter and they didn’t respond anyway)

Southern Water referred me to UKSearch, I made full and final offer to UKSearch 27 Nov 2023
UKSearch returned unable to accept my offer but making me an offer on account A and asking for an offer on account B 28 Nov 2023
I accepted the offer for account A and made an offer for account B 10 Dec 2023. I paid account A 22 Dec 2023

28 Dec 2023 UKSearch wrote saying thanks outstanding debt paid in full, account A
02 Jan 2024 hadaway writes enclosing a Notice of change of legal representative saying they will instruct the court that this claim has now been settled claim no. ————  (different to the claim form number for account B and first time a claim no. was used, it wasn’t on the LBA)

Thanks waylander!

A letter from the court through today saying they acknowledge my defence ( the wrong defence I put through). A copy being sent to the claimant (or the solicitor).

still a little confused to be honest but i think i have most of it now.

so start with the LBA,

bullet point 1 in your request,

eg. you, ward hadaway sent me a letter before action dated 3rd november 2023, requesting that i contact UK search etc etc

i believe this LBA states that UK search had the discretion to decide what was acceptable ? this needs to be questioned as southern water would need to have given permission for that so we need to ask if Wards have seen this permission given by southern water. these are the type of questions we need to asking , they have to reply to a part 18, i hope you are beginning to see what we need to do here.

without seeing all of the paperwork it is hard for me to piece it all together but we can come up with a few awkward questions.

also do you have ANY correspondence from southern water saying that ALL negotiations will be dealt with by UK search ?

I have a letter from Southern Water 16 Nov 2023 saying that the debt balances of both accounts have been referred to UKSearch.

In the same letter (after the LBA )they say that if I were to resume payments to UKSearch for account A it would prevent any further High Court Action.

Southern Water say to discuss balance of account B with UkSearch.

They quote a ref. no. that Hadaway quote as a Claim number in the Notice of Change letter where Hadaway state the account has been settled (Account A). This quoting a Claim Number made me think the LBA was about account A and the account therefore settled and no further action while I waited for their response on my offer for account B.

But the LBA actually had a reference number for account B, not a claim no., a reference no.

This is where the confusion for me arose because the letter where UKSearch say make an offer for account A and asked me for an offer for account B says once a payment is made they would inform the solicitors that the account had been settled but the LBA was about account B and they were asking me to make an offer for account B, it hadn’t gone to the payment stage.

One other thing, when UKSearch asked me to make an offer for account B, they like said that they would refer that offer to Southern Water.

Goodness this is mind bending!

i know

try sitting where i am having not seen any paperwork

lets go back to my last post:

you said "
One other thing, when UKSearch asked me to make an offer for account B, they like said that they would refer that offer to Southern Water."

this is what i was referring to / expecting

i said "i believe this LBA states that UK search had the discretion to decide what was acceptable ? this needs to be questioned as southern water would need to have given permission for that so we need to ask if Wards have seen this permission given by southern water. these are the type of questions we need to asking , they have to reply to a part 18, i hope you are beginning to see what we need to do here.

i need this answer as it is wrong ! they need asking about this ! an LBA shouldn't be making a false statement especially from a solicitor so lets point that out and ask for an explanation.

do you see ?

Thanks, yes I see.

It seems like between them they are trying to bamboozle me.

Yes just because the accounts have been referred to UKSearch does not mean they have the discretion to decide what
is acceptable unless Southern Water has given them permission, is that right.

Part 18 is a request for further information, yes.

It seems like the communication between the litigation agents and the solicitors has not been accurate.

I put in a wrong defence because I thought it was about account A, is this going to affect things?
Shall I draft the letter to hadaway again?

Another thing is why would hadaway say they would inform the court of a settled account when the LBA they put in
was about the other account B that isn’t settled? So they’ve told the court that account A was settled ( why would the
court care about account A) and then carried on with a claim on account B, it doesn’t make sense!

Scarlet Tiger wrote:Thanks, yes I see.

It seems like between them they are trying to bamboozle me.

Possibly but like a lot of these solicitors they are pretty useless to be honest as are staff at uk search and southern water

Yes just because the accounts have been referred to UKSearch does not mean they have the discretion to decide what
is acceptable unless Southern Water has given them permission, is that right.

yes definitely, you even have in writing that uk search have to refer your offer to southern water, the LBA states the opposite unfair to you
Part 18 is a request for further information, yes.

YES

It seems like the communication between the litigation agents and the solicitors has not been accurate.

likely not but the solicitors have issued a claim with a signed statement of truth into court ! so it should be the truth, hmm wonder why nobody has signed it ! do you see

I put in a wrong defence because I thought it was about account A, is this going to affect things?

that will make things difficult
Shall I draft the letter to hadaway again?

if you have microsoft word then create the document and start it now you can then save and amend it when you like until it is good to go

i would start with the letter before action and ask 1 or 2 questions and then we can move onto the next part of the letter the sooner the better really but i dont always have a lot of time.


Another thing is why would hadaway say they would inform the court of a settled account when the LBA they put in
was about the other account B that isn’t settled? So they’ve told the court that account A was settled ( why would the
court care about account A) and then carried on with a claim on account B, it doesn’t make sense!

Again it is the LBA so ask that question

start with 1. letter before action

then write important points such as those discussed then we will ask questions and request any paperwork to verify and that they be attached to their response.

hadaway draft, thanks waylander!!!
                                                                                 
In the county court business centre Northampton                           Claim no. xyz

                                     Southern Water                                Claimant  

                                               v  

                                       Scarlet Tiger                                  Defendant


                         DEFENDANTS REQUEST OF CLAIMANT
               MADE ON 24th January 2024 PURSUANT TO CPR PART 18
               FOR FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

Dear Ward

1. Letter Before Court Action (LBCA)

The LBCA states to contact UK Search to arrange suitable payment.

I contacted UK Search with an offer of payment (date), they replied (date) and made a return offer for account A which I accepted and paid ( date).

I was also asked to make an offer for account B and this was to be referred to Southern Water. I made an offer and am still awaiting a response.

In the letter (date) UK Search says they would refer my offer to Southern Water.

The LBCA states UK Search have discretion in deciding what offers and payments are acceptable.

Has ward hadaway seen permission from Southern Water for this discretion?

2. After payment for Account A I received confirmation of payment from UK Search (date) and a Notice of Change from ward hadaway (date) stating the court would be informed of the settled account.

Why would ward hadaway inform the court of a settled account when in fact the LBCA was for Account B which was in the process of settlement, awaiting response to said offer?

3. I have had no reply from either UKSearch or Southern Water as to my offer for Account B and was at the time of issuance of your Claim still awaiting response to my offer.

I would like to know, why have I been sent a Claim Form when I adhered to the LBCA as requested?

The absence of the information requested has caused confusion and has disadvantaged me in handling this claim.

Yours sincerley,


Scarlet T

I hesitate to chip in but my understanding is that a CPR 18 request is a request for information. On that basis i would suggest restructing a little so that the requests stand out, and it is clear what information you expect them to supply.

I would also suggest emphasising how the absence of that information disadvantages you in handling the claim (as opposed to how it disadvanged you in the past, which i would think is more of defence point)

Thanks flyingfish, any help is much appreciated!

flyingfish wrote:I hesitate to chip in but my understanding is that a CPR 18 request is a request for information. On that basis i would suggest restructing a little so that the requests stand out, and it is clear what information you expect them to supply.

I have numbered 3 questions for them, are they unclear, not sure if they are necessarily questions on Particulars of Claim, I have
edited a bit, see what you think.

I would also suggest emphasising how the absence of that information disadvantages you in handling the claim (as opposed to how it disadvanged you in the past, which i would think is more of defence point)

I have added a bit to this effect, is that clearer do you think? Thanks!!

flying fish is correct

but i like the fact that you have had a go, i dont think account A has anything to do with the LBA ? does it ?

no need to mention account A under the heading LBA as it is irrelevant. i will try and sort the first part of the part 18 request

please before i do, answer the above question regarding account A dont want to get this wrong.

waylander62 wrote:flying fish is correct

but i like the fact that you have had a go, i dont think account A has anything to do with the LBA ? does it ?

That’s correct Account A doesn’t have anything to do with the LBA, although hadaway informed the court of a settled account, the only
settled account is account A but the LBA only had the Account B ref. no.

no need to mention account A under the heading LBA as it is irrelevant.

OK

i will try and sort the first part of the part 18 request

Thank you!

Letter before action

On x date i received a Letter Before Action from yourselves, giving me 30 days to .......

Request 1

OF: " quote them exactly as the LBA says in respect of stating UK search had discretion "

a) Please provide evidence that southern water had in fact given UK search full permission to decide whether any offer i made was acceptable, please provide written evidence of this and attach your documents to your response as required pursuant to PD 18 Paragraph 2.3(1) (d).

this is what is meant by a part 18, start with the LBA and move from their i can only produce such questions based upon what you tell us as i have not seen the LBA.