Need Advice now GOODF has gone

Hello all

Would appreciate some help as the advice i have been given over the last 20 months has been fantastic

Anyway, I started the 3 letters process in December 2015 against 4 firms.

The advice I got, I always followed to the letter and everything seemed to work out fine.

This year has been almost non existent in contact from anyone, until around May.

Wexxcot began phoning me. A lot!!! the last piece of advice i had from GOODF was "ignore", then GOODF went silent, as we know what happened there.

Anyway one of my alleged debtors has got Drxxdon fairfax involved and they have sent me this letter

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When this happened to me last year (with H cohen on another alleged debt), i sent them the below in bold, which did the trick as i never heard anything back.

Should I send Drxxden fairfax the same letter?

Like I said, I am looking for some advice so i can keep the wolf from the door so to speak!!!

Many thanks, as ever.


With regard to your letter dated xxxx, which stated Legal Action would be taken, I take this to be a Letter before Action under the above named Pre Action Conduct Protocol and as such I am responding accordingly.

As you have indicated you are acting on behalf of xxxx in this action, I assume you are authorised to accept service of documentation, therefore, please accept this request for Information sufficient to understand the claim being threatened and as such is in accordance Section 3 of the Pre Action Conduct, by way of Service Upon You and your client.

As I have never entered into any Legal Agreement or Contract with your client, for any monies or specifically for the alleged amount of xxxxx; and I neither accept nor acknowledge the assertion any debt has been Legally and Absolutely Assigned to your client, I therefore, request the following documentation under Pre Action Conduct Section 6 (c) as proof of your Clients assertions of a Legal Obligation, to be provided to me within 40 days of the post marked date of this letter.

I. Pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974) a copy of the Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement, along with a copy of the original Terms & Conditions and any and all subsequent changes in said Terms & Conditions.

II. Statements of the Account referred to, including details of all payments made and calculation of how interest was charged against each item, leading to the Alleged Debt of xxxxx.

III. Also, as this is an Alleged Debt, I believe Default Charges may have been applied to the Account and as such may be unlawful under the Unfair Consumer Contract Terms Regulations 1999, therefore, I would request details of each and every Default Charge applied to the Account (i.e. if the charge was for ‘Administration’ what Administration was undertaken to support the Default Charge) along with details of any Interest Charged against each Default Charge applied.

IV. In accordance with Section 87.1 Of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) a copy of the Default Notice from the original owners of the Alleged Debt and Certified Copies of how this was served upon me.

V. A copy of the Legal / Absolute Assignment of the Agreement, including a copy of a Duly Executed Deed of Assignment and / or Deed of Tripartite Novation; and

VI. In accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how I was served with the Alleged Legal Assignment.

VII. A copy of the Alleged Notice of Assignment sent by the original creditor to the Defendant and again, in accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how this was Served upon me.

Should proceedings commence against me and your client fail to provide each and every document requested, I will make an Application to the Court to Stay your Clients claim until the request is complied with and request the Court impose Sanctions against yourself and your client for failure to adhere to the provisions of the above mentioned Practice Direction.

Also please be aware, each document listed is required to provide absolute and legal proof of your client’s contention of a legal indebtedness towards them and again, should your client fail to produce said documentation and Proceedings Commence against me I will apply to the Court to Stay your Clients claim Until said documentation is received.

As a part of my defence I will re-request production of each and every document under an appropriate Civil Procedure Rule, along with a request under CPR Part 39.a (3.3) for the original of every document upon which you intend to rely be brought to any subsequent hearing for examination.

Please note, where I have mentioned a document and there is in your clients possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

I look forward to your response in due course.

Yours faithfully,

Looks very good to me.

If it proceeds further CPR 18 request has now been added in the 3 letter section.

the last piece of advice i had from GOODF was "ignore",

This is exactly the point I have brought up in one of my other posts, GOODF just got to the point where the only advice we were ever given was "IGNORE" until it got to the point where I just stopped asking for advice as obviously I didn't agree

So my advice to you there is no matter what you were advised on the old GOODF NEVER IGNORE! Ignoring is a good way to end up with a court case which could of been avoided

The advice was to ignore until they threatened to take court action.

A weakness in this is that it may lead to missing and not reading an important document which referred to court action when it came.

A lot of advice was given on the forum to respond asking for proof of claim documents and if they were not provided then ignore.

There were many threads giving advice on how to construct such letters and what proof of claim documents to ask for.

If you disagree with ignoring letters, from DCAs after asking for proof of claim, it would great if you could please educate us in the advantages of responding to DCA letters and what we could or should say in response to them.

cheers
aus

These suggestions for letters back to the money grabbers come from recent threads and are the product of their authors whose names cannot recall. I have simply put them into questions.

I require you to provide me with documentary proof the chose in action (assignment) was correctly assigned or granted to you.

I require you to provide me with a sworn statement, stating that the alleged debt has not been sold, traded or been the subject of an insurance claim.

All the advice i received on GOODF i followed and on each occasion it was met with a "threatening" letter which largely amounted to nothing. They usually said "...taking letter templates from internet forums..." but on each occasion with the 3 letters process it resulted in either radio silence or a letter from the DCA saying they "have given the alleges debt back to xxxx."

Then when i received a new letter from a new DCA, I started the process again.

Only on one occasion did i receive a letter threatening a CCJ. I then responded accordingly and it went quiet again

I would say that from november last year up until May of this year, I received 1 letter across 4 people.

Since May, wesxcot have been involved and other so am looking for advice again.

I always checked on GOODF before sending a letter to ensure I was "doing it correctly"

Faljay and Tiggy were excellent.

Would love to know what happened with them and if they are still about.

I'm no expert but certainly I can educate you to the best of my knowledge on examples of what I have sent to them. Here is an example of what I have sent to Moorcroft, (who seem to love to use the phrase "we believe" a lot in their letters) some of it is from templates from other members and I have added some bits in myself but please feel free to copy it if you wish

I have received your letter dated xx/xx/2017 the contents of which are noted and rebutted in their entirety
The fact that my letters are based on templates is irrelevant, otherwise the same thing could be said about your template letters. The letter you sent me I have seen the exact same letter several times before
There is no law stopping anyone from using template letters, which are used universally by many, if not all companies, which does not invalidate them whatsoever.
DO NOT refer me to twisted companies such as StepChange and Citizens advice bureau. I really couldn’t care less what companies like these have on their websites. I am fully aware that companies like these are on the side of the creditors and debt collectors even though they try to pretend they are there to help us. They may fool some people but I am not one of them
I must admit it made me laugh when I read the part of your letter that says if I contact you you will give me the honest facts. Is that supposed to be a joke? We all know debt collectors are never honest and wouldn’t know facts if they jumped up and bit them
For avoidance of any doubt no matter what you have asked your clients to send me if it isn’t what I asked for it won’t be accepted, plain and simple
Also I couldn’t care less what you or your clients “Believe” This is a popular word in your letters. Go discuss your beliefs with your church

Yours faithfully,

And heres a reply I sent to Lowell last year after they sent me a spreadsheet with a lot of numbers with no personal info linking it either to me or to the OC then claimed they sent what I asked for

Dear Interloper
The so called evidence you sent me for this account is not acceptable and you have not proven any debt.
The evidence I requested from you is as follows
True and certified copies (NOT photocopies) of the Deed of Assignment (Not the Notice of Assignment) and Deed of Novation. I also requested the name of the individual who is the duly authorised representative from your company, who has seen the Original Note and is certifying these assignments as certified copies and that your company now has the Original Note (Credit Agreement) under penalty of perjury and with unlimited liability and confirm that the Note has never been sold prior to your company purchasing this account and also confirmation of the name of the individual who is the duly authorised representative from your company, who has carried out due diligence under The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 and what actions s/he has taken in relation to this account.
Nothing other than what was requested will be accepted!
So sorry to say no payment will be made on this account. I also mentioned in my letter dated xx/xx/2016 that we are now in a tacit agreement which includes a fee schedule. Please find enclosed with this letter a bill from me which is to be paid within 30 days from the date on this letter by cheque otherwise you will also be held culpable for any cost incurred while recovering the debt you owe.

Again please feel free to copy and use, I understand some people don't like using the fee schedule so if this is the case for you simply leave that bit out

I hope this is helpful and I may have more to share later if I can find them

Dave

I too like the idea of letting DCAs know that their letters designed to instill fear / panic are having no affect whatsoever, it is after all pretty much all they have. If the OC could not succeed why do these parasites think they can.

this thread is fantastic, down to earth, & basically says it as it should be - no bullshit. Having started to receive threat-o-grams from DCA over utilities I can begin to understand how others feel when receiving this crap!

Have started to alter my own responses to DCA including what is written here & it appears to work. They don't show proof, they continue with same crap hoping you pay up, so have started to send back RTS to DCA only.

If OC starts again can add more ammo thanks to this & similar threads.

Thanks to all, for contributions made.

The OC can be just as pesky as the DCs and this is often overlooked so here is a sample reply to an OC, as usual feel free to copy and use as you wish

In reply to your  letter dated xx/xx/2017 the contents of which are noted and rebutted in their entirety
.You were given a chance 3 times to prove your claim by sending me the following items
1. Validation of the debt (the actual accounting);
2. Verification of your claim against me (a sworn affidavit or a hand signed invoice in accordance with  The Bills of Exchange Act (1882) );
3. A copy of the contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties.
4. A true and certified copy (NOT photocopy) of the Original Note (Credit Agreement), under penalty of perjury and with unlimited liability and confirmation that this Note, has never been sold.
5. The name of the individual who is the duly authorised representative from your company, who has carried out due diligence under The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 and what actions s/he has taken in relation to this account.

FOR AVOIDANCE OF ANY DOUBT NOTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THE ABOVE WILL BE ACCEPTED


In addition to what I have already asked you for I now also ask you for the following 2 items
1. A signed statement from a named individual from (OC Name), that the original agreement has never been sold or traded in any way.
2. A signed statement from a named individual from (OC Name) that no insurance claim has been made in respect of this claim.
These are in addition to the documentation requested that you have failed to so far provide.All including the original agreement will be required in court should you decide to proceed.

As you failed to supply me with any of the above mentioned documents  as a result I DO NOT accept that there is any outstanding balance, I DO NOT accept that I owe you anything and I will CERTAINLY NOT be paying you anything. Not by xx/xx/2017. Not at ANY time. Have I made myself clear enough?
So don’t send me letters about ways to pay because this is not relevant to me as I WILL NOT be paying.  Do you understand?

You were also told in a previous letter  that any further contact is now not necessary and will be subject to my fee schedule which I sent to you on xx/xx/2017. Your bill is included with this letter and is due immediately. Sending pointless letters only increases your bill. Any claim brought against me will be strongly defended.  As Mentioned before I will vigorously defend against any solicitors fees and court costs ,and on the second note the claim itself should it ever go to court

I trust I have made myself understood


Again if you don't like using the billing leave that part out

I hope this is helpful

Dave

Hello again

Its been a while but am looking for some guidance again.

I sent the letter off at the beginning of August and heard nothing back until I returned from holiday today

What annoys me is that they can take 6/7 weeks to respond but then demand you respond in 2 weeks!!!

anyway, that aside they are threatening court action and I am hoping that someone can give me some decent advice in how to respond.

I saw that Tiggy was back on here, which is great as the advice in the past there has been superb.

Anyway.

They sent a massive bundle of documents of which i have scanned a few to look at

1. is the cover letter from drydxnfaifxx
2.copies (it says in the top corner) of an alleged agreement
3. this copy then leads through a few pages before leading to a page which has a signature box which isn't signed
4. a copy of (10 pages of copies) of a pre-contract info
5. every single statement of alleged debt
6. a photocopy of a alleged default notice

I need to send this off pretty sharpish so if anyone can help with advice it would be most welcome

I have sent the 3 letters off in the past and this alleged debt has been round the houses a fair bit and through westcxt i received tons of phonecalls as well

Many thanks as always

Hi,Westcountryhelp.

Take a look at at The Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims .which came into force on the 1st of Oct.
sec 3.1 states they should send a letter of claim before proceedings are started.
I would strongly suggest you download & read.

Here is the revised Pre Action Protocol: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf

They have written this leaning heavily in favour of creditors or on the proviso of you admitting to be the debtor, so interpret with caution, they are now using statements of account to create facts, that's their two witnesses right there if your not careful; there is also pre action conduct which may be a better method of using the CPR discovery and disclosure rules.

Some useful reading: http://www.lawplainandsimple.com/legal-guides/article/what-is-the-litigation-process
http://www.lawplainandsimple.com/legal-guides/article/what-is-a-pre-action-protocol

Hello there

Thanks for the speedy responses

Is the letter I posted at the top of this thread a "letter of claim" that you mention?

Like i said, the timeline in relation to this went

3 letters
gets passed around a lot
westcxt get involved and start phoning me loads
drydxn send the letter at the top of the thread
7 week later they send me a loads of info on alleged debt including the 6 pics I posted last night

none of the documentation they sent is any contains any signature as well and I always thought that they had to send documents with 2 signatures on it

Or am i barking up the wrong tree?

Any help i receive is gratefully received as always

first of all DRYDENS have informed you in writing they are acting under instruction for the OC, meaning as an agent, so forget about asking for deeds of assignment as they have no title nor interest themselves. you do require proof of their agency or power of attorney to act on the OC's behalf.

Can the Agent prove or can the OC prove those Terms and conditions are the same as the ones they allege you signed up for in the original agreement, can they certify those statements of account ?

Just a few things to consider .. be careful what you read on this forum particularly those older letters being promoted which are not addressing the real issues and when used have resulted in failure.

Oh in the event this goes south for you, I hope you have placed a preceding restriction of your own on your TITLE if you have home, as they are going for a charging order by the look of it, or at the least you have tenancy in common.

Also if the OC and claimant will be RBS, why is the default notice from NatWest ?

Hello there

Thanks for the speedy reply

a couple of questions as I want to get the letter out to them tomorrow

1. "proof of their agency or power of attorney to act on OC's behalf" Does this mean, a letter they send me stating "we are acting upon.." and likewise a letter from the OC, saying "we have instructed..."

2. how do i ask the agent or OC to prove the terms and conditions are the same and what do you mean by "certify those statements of account"?

3. what does this mean? "I hope you have placed a preceding restriction of your own on your TITLE if you have home, as they are going for a charging order by the look of it, or at the least you have tenancy in common."

4. RBS and Natwest query - I was thinking the same myself? I know Natwest are part of RBS - at least i thought they were, but whats the legality around this? the alleged debt is with RBS and NOT Natwest

Many thanks as always

Hi westcountryhelp,

Have you looked at the new 3 letters (New letters process) in the debt section ?

westcountryhelp wrote:Hello there

Thanks for the speedy reply

a couple of questions as I want to get the letter out to them tomorrow

1. "proof of their agency or power of attorney to act on OC's behalf" Does this mean, a letter they send me stating "we are acting upon.." and likewise a letter from the OC, saying "we have instructed..."

2. how do i ask the agent or OC to prove the terms and conditions are the same and what do you mean by "certify those statements of account"?

3. what does this mean? "I hope you have placed a preceding restriction of your own on your TITLE if you have home, as they are going for a charging order by the look of it, or at the least you have tenancy in common."

4. RBS and Natwest query - I was thinking the same myself? I know Natwest are part of RBS - at least i thought they were, but whats the legality around this? the alleged debt is with RBS and NOT Natwest

Many thanks as always

1) Yes proof of their power to act, its worth reading the agreement if you still have it to make sure they have included such instruction too

2) if you have the agreement compare it to the alleged copy, to be fair this is basic due diligence anyway, in any case if the copy does not have your signature, reconstituted or otherwise, you don't recall signing such an agreement ( of course you don't, you haven't signed it have you), to certify something requires an original and a witness thereto.

3) You should always think of protecting your Home, you have the right to charge your equitable interest against your title, and if that charge is first in time (after the mortgagee legal charge obviously) its first in line meaning any subsequent charge is to the end of the pecking order and may never be realised, if you have a joint interest again their is a way of blocking the charge, I am not going into more detail on it here.

4) Who is the claimant ? Is RBS just a trading name here on credit cards ?, it doesn't cut it but I have seen some District Judges allow Creditors (banks and utility Corps) to just change the claimant name on the Form at a directions hearing before trial, not that they would ever allow you such room to wriggle.

I refer you to handle's latest post RE -Debt cases assigned, its up to you how you play it but in that thread is another angle to consider and may well be a better option with some more sober information given, after reading the revised PAC I have seen how the rules have been changed to make it easier for claimants to get around the existing templates that have been used and they are changing their tactics, I expect a lot of these accounts have been primed up ready for the new protocols that came in.

A word of warning with templates, I don't advocate them at all and have said so before, but here is the thing if you cannot recognise the relationship an OC or DCA is attempting to construe against you or fully comprehend why each request is made and what it means and why it either helps your or does not, then do not use such a template.

Hello again.

Once again I need some advice as both these landed yesterday morning (assuming they send 2nd class as a delay tactic to give you little time to respond)

Along with the court letter there are a few more pages outlining "a response pack"

This details, my defence, income and other bits which i presume is pretty standard.

If you could give me any advice in regards to how to respond please, and is it getting to that point now where I can start to get rather concerned.

As I am!!!

Many thanks as always

Hi westcountryhelp

First you need to send back the court claim within 14 days, the agreement can you read it, also the agreement must be a true copy.

Read my post under court, it is in the debt section. If you have not done so, you need to check all your paperwork, starting with the Default notice. This must contain your full name and address, the full and correct account number and must give you the option of repaying the alleged debt. within14 days, this must be served under section 87(1) consumer credit ACT 1974


I have not had the chance to read your post properly, but like i said, read my post under court on the debt section and check all your paperwork.

Did you complete and return the Pre Action Conduct letter they sent you?

Who's the claimant, presumably RBS?

Have you asked for / have they produced a copy of the agreement?

Have they sent copies of statements and a default notice, because with an original creditor those are the items which a Court accept to validate the claim.

You'd have to go through everything you receive to see if they comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act - if not, your defence would be that the debt (due to xyz deficiencies) are unenforceable against you.

Hello there

Just got back from holiday yesterday and it looks like that if I send out the details tomorrow I will be right on the deadline so here goes

1. the claimant is RBS, but the letter from early october in the massive pack they sent states Natwest. will this matter?

2. in the pack they sent back to me (see post from 6th of october) they sent a copy of the default notice and agreement but the agreement is not signed by both myself nor RBS. there are no signatures on it. they have also sent copies of all my statements.

3. the default notice (which is a photocopy and states so in the top corner) has the correct account number and my name is correct although it has an initial for my middle name and not my actual middle name.

4. they give me an option of repaying the arrears of the alleged debt

I think that covers everything from the queries that piggy and petesomethign asked.

Obviously i am sending this out tomorrow and will dispute but just want to have an idea of what to put in the defence part.

or is it looking like i am in the mire and am going to have to come to an arrangement? or has that moment passed as well?

As ever any help would be greatly appreciated

many thanks as always

Hi westcountryhelp

Who's 'piggy'.....?

Cheers!

Whoooooooopss!!!!

typo due to an autocorrect gone haywire on my keyboard

I meant Tiggy. Who has always been very helpful in their advice.

Many thanks as always